ZROCK2 is packed and ready to ship. I will have to call Sarah tomorrow and pay for it.  Oops, wrong Thread.

I just think it's damn cool that a designer and a great one at that lets people in on the process.

JD

Lonely Raven wrote on 01/10/18 at 19:32:37:


Yeah I doubt I could swing a pair of mono's (I don't feel one would be enough for my setup) as I thought he mentioned they will come in at the price of a Torii MK IV.  That would make a pair of mono's close to $7,000.00.  Making them the most expensive amp (per watt) in his lineup ... $1750 per watt!

That makes the 60 watt Torii Mono's, which in comparison @ $93.26 per watt, sound like the deal of the century!

At the risk of being labeled a passenger who is spending a little too much time on the SS Fanboy, I’ll write one more post on this amp.

Given that Raven *will* someday take his amp back, I decided to do an A/B last night – Rachael vs Zen -- using Steve’s Tidal playlist.  I went into it knowing which I would like better, but I thought I might be able to jot down some differences that others may find useful.  Both amps were run plugged into my PS Audio P5 with PS Audio AC10 Power Cord to the wall, Cryo’d Hubbel outlets and dedicated 15A circuit.

Steve has selected a nice playlist here and that was clear with Rachael.  My notes include nice big soundstage, interesting positioning of instruments, nice ambient content by Boris Blank, maybe a little sibilance on the female vocal on Tears Run Dry.  

Some of the tracks were a little in my face but I was able to back the volume off a bit and they were fine.  Nils Lofgren sounded like it always does.  On several of them I thought these are neat, creative artists and I like their music.  Overall clear and accurate picture with a fair level of engagement.

I put in the Zen and let it warm up.  I find that it takes about twice as long for the Zen to get to its happy place than it does Rachael.

Then I sat down determined to analyze the differences.  

You’ve heard this one before, but I ended up pretty much just sitting there, feeling immersed in the music.  I listened to the playlist, then I listened to it again, then I went out on Tidal to listen to more tracks by the same artists, then I listened to the playlist again.  Nearly three hours.  Poof.  Up in smoke.  No notes.  I felt that satisfaction you get after watching a really emotionally engaging movie.

This morning I got up early and went down for another listen with the intent of jotting down at least some notes and managed to do so.  In addition to what I have said in earlier posts about this amp being quick and getting the attack right (which engages you), it also draws you in with how lush the soundstage is.  Its enveloping to a higher degree than Rachael and its cozier there.  

As mentioned before, I do have to turn up the Crowns a bit to get the bass to the right level, but I love the timbre of the bass from this amp.  That alone makes this a more enjoyable amp.  It has rich timbre on other instruments as well, but I am a sucker for good bass.

The most immersive songs were Tears Run Dry and The Bridge and I can relate to some of Steve's comments although I don't think I am getting the full experience he is.

I had to keep reminding myself that I am getting this level of engagement out of a little gray box with red and black plastic speaker taps and a power cord thinner than the one that came with my kid’s new computer.  

I get the $$ per watt analysis.  But in fairness to the big picture, try doing that analysis with one of those tube amps vendors that show up at the audio shows.
 
So, I would put a different spin on the analysis.  $$ per level of engagement.  Hard to measure and relay to others, but I think we are all looking for that value.  

If the production model (or its shared DNA siblings) are anything like this amp, I think Steve will deliver a very high $$ per level of engagement.

I may have misread Steve's post about the "entry Zen," but I thought he wanted to get something for sale at a more attractive price point for newbies and not necessarily something up to the modified Zen level.  1K for his lowest price amp is shocking when you come in cold.  It needs to be a "gateway" amp that leads to the harder stuff!  

Quote:


That's how I saw it as well. That's why I mentioned it would be amazing if he could do my Zen for that classic $499 price. The V-Caps would immediately put it out of that price range, but if he could keep the power supply speed, UFO transformers, classic power supply at that $499 or thereabouts. Wow.  Maybe to get it into that range, base model (classic power supply transformer with my PS caps), at $499, then do a $200 UFO option, and $200 VCAP option. The key would be to have it at that price to pull people away from the $300 Chinese tube amps that people think are actual tube amps.  ;D  But then give them an option for the real Zen magic.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. That's part of what made the ZMA a Duh! purchase for me. Horsepower and engagement. The little Zen certainly is a whole nother level of engagement.

I don't think you will ever see a Zen amp for $500.  

I priced out a build a couple years ago with basic components the circuit board and it was more than $350.  Add in skilled labor, etc. and you are over $500 easy.  Granted Steve gets better pricing on components, but I don't see any positive margin there even with lower prices on materials.

Loss leader is probably not a strategy that is often employed by small businesses.

Certainly no loss leader need be done. But, as I said, their might be a reading comprehension problem here....but, here it goes.... As I said, with the base entry model....option upgrades/offered at the time of entry level amp purchase....or later send it back for upgrade. .....Steve making them side by side on the bench right now like I said, you need to wrap your brain around that..... .

Side by side = Annv Amp and Entry Level Amp.

Enough on this matter.....probably will be lost in translation again.


Heck, my ZROCK2 is coming and with my ZDSD, ZMA, Kabling and Speakers....I might have to poke out climbing back into Steve's Anv Triode until Fall of 2019.  8-)

That is Twen-ty Nine-teen. ....F A L L

I have been watching this thread with great interest, but can anyone share what speaker Steve is using for his tests?

Hi Everyone... I too have started saving-up for a Zen Anniversary. Very exciting. How much fun is doing high-end audio with 2 watts?! I'm going to be using a floor-standing version of the Omega CAM.

Also, I was wondering what the Zen Anniversary would sound like on a high-end headphone? Any chance of a headphone-output option on the new Zen amplifier(s)... please!

"You’ve heard this one before, but I ended up pretty much just sitting there, feeling immersed in the music.  I listened to the playlist, then I listened to it again, then I went out on Tidal to listen to more tracks by the same artists, then I listened to the playlist again.  Nearly three hours.  Poof.  Up in smoke."

Not at all. It was three hours immersed in the here and now.

Be here now!

Be here now!

Actually, I have used the Monoliths (DM947's) but most of the time I have been using a new DNA horn we're experimenting with. It is simply a scaled up version of the current DNA horn on the site. Rather than using a 5 inch driver it uses an 8 inch driver. In fact it uses the same driver compliment as the DM946/DM947 which is the 8 inch crossover less silver flute wool cone driver and the isodynamic planar ribbon tweeter.  The signature of the speaker is very similar to the DM947.Monoliths but better. The cabinet is an inch and a half thick composite co-mass layer damped DNA horn that gives higher efficiency, tighter more articulate sound with more slam and because you can hear a couple dB increase in efficiency over the Monoliths it gets louder on the 2 watt Zen. This somewhat small difference is just enough to feel like I'm listening to the DM947's on the ZMA which is a favorite pairing of mine. The density and size are about the same, the ZMA having slightly better control and the new Zen having more resolution.

The speakers are proving to be something special with the 2 watt Zen, and being able to get this efficiency across such a wide bandwidth really makes you forget you're only using 2 watts, so that is a small part of my raving about this amplifier and since I really like what I'm hearing right now I don't want to scramble my brain with a bunch of new variables (like speakers) at this stage.

This weekend I'll either sabotage by new found fondness for digital by listening to analog, or who knows... anything can happen.  I just know I don't want to have to work the following day ; )

Definitely has been a fun read and I know this amp is going to be really special.  

The below also caught my attention...

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Steve...which amps could be upgraded and when do you think that might be possible?

Nothing like pestering the developer about his innovation pipeline before the initial innovation even launches.  

Oh yes J of A, the scaled up version of the current DNA horn-I took notice.

It has been 10 years since I have seen Steve and DeVon. I plan, by appt., to stop in....if they are willing to put up with me for a few hours.

I plan to do this before I take off to TX, ....tend to my Folks and their Roses and Pineapple Palms.

Sounds to me like if Steve and Ziggy do not put it into production you may have more than two of them to build!

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Seriously - seeing the precision of Bob's work is very humbling.  Yeah, if I had to choose between making one from scratch, or paying extra for a flat-pack from him, I would absolutely get the flat-pack!

That said, I do have a really, really nice table saw now.  

That's really interesting Steve. Those monos are beautiful. . . and if they have the potential to be as wonderful with the new tech. . . wow. And with Jupiter caps too.

Sadly I found one of the tube sockets is chipped on one of the amps meaning it was built that way.  On tuesday the builder will replace input stage and socket. I'm not going to listen to these amps until that has happened, but have great expectations and will report back when I know something.

Steve

Nice to read about the SE84UFO3 monos with the Jupiter's instead of VCaps, as candidates. The different topology derived you mention, very nice as well...to achieve your goal of putting the 3 on par with the AN25th.....at the 3.5k ballpark for either, or.

What I would like to see...is an remote volume added to the ZSTAGE preamp? Looks like their is room to put it in. Bring that to us at $1295 (you won't be able to make them fast enough/here/on Facebook and get/purchase the mailing lists of the Hi-Fi mags...we/you know the ones-direct mail subscribers-about your ZSTAGE WITH remote), per my calculations with Jupiter caps. Then I'm set running ZSTAGE to ZROCK2 to ZMA and UFO3 mono's or AN25th. (Obviously, single input & output at $1295....additional cost for more inputs and another output).

I want the simplicity/transparency (as you wrote) found in the ZR2 of the single tube WITH that simplicity/transparency of the single tube in my remote volume ZSTAGE preamplifier.

It would be cool and I think it can be fitted. Steve was working on a switch box with remote volume he spoke of.

I'm not totally sure.... But I think Steve put the ZSTAGE up to 0 to 15 volts output and as you know the ZROCK2 handles larger input now. Your ZSTAGE might have been the 0 to 5 volts output.

Love my Audio Research single tube FET Hybrid Line Stage.... But would like to go all Decware. Probably keep my AR too.

Off topic, ....my girlfriend went to the Vikngs game with my ticket. I need to play it cool for my stress test tomorrow.  :'(  she is a bigger fan than me .... And I made sure she went.

I prefer the ZMA direct from my ZDSD.  I look forward to only adding the ZR2. Their is a purity of tone from the ZMA I like.

However, I do like this particular Audio Research Line Stage signature pushing through the ZMA.....turns it into a beast of weight and definition.

Just curious about an enhanced ZSTAGE?

Thanks on the test....should go well.

stone_of_tone wrote on 01/15/18 at 05:04:32:

I preferred my source directly (through the ZBIT to get that extra voltage) as well. Until the ZTPRE came along. Blew that satisfaction away. . . now I can't imagine life without the ZTPRE. Didn't feel that way with the CSP preamps.

The outputs are those furthest from the IEC inlet, the inputs those closest to the IEC inlet.

Since Steve says that the ZTPRE is a pair of CSP3s in one chassis, is the difference due to the balanced in/out you think?

Ha ha, I asked that same question about the RCA position a couple weeks ago.  

stone_of_tone wrote on 01/15/18 at 17:28:16:

You're welcome. I think Steve has been consistent with this configuration with the products in these chassises. And it makes sense when I think "Inputs are furthest in, outputs are on the outer edge."