Yes I have been evaluating several caps in the NX range and found 4700uf is larger than I wanted to go.  I have found the range so far between 3300 to 3900 uf to be more desirable. So the cap values I will be using for the mod will be anything in this window.

Steve

Experience exchange from a guy (me) that has installed the 4700 uF caps. I agree with Steve that 3300 to 3900 uF is the optimum value for those caps to keep things nice and simple (KISS principle) while improving matters. As mentioned I have installed 4700 uF Mundorf Mlytic's in my ZMA along with a whole bunch of bypass caps and as a result had to install 330K ohm bleeder resistors to compensate for the extra stored energy which needs to be dissipated when the amp is powered off. Without these bleeder resistors the mA meters bounce wildly on powering the ZMA off. When the power is turned off the OA3 conduction oscillates as the stored voltage (in the large caps) is dropping and so current drawn increases to compensate. For me the lower ESR and lower drawdown in voltage (therefore less supply power ripple) while the ZMA is operating and the resultant upgrade in sound and background provided by this make and size of caps is worth not following the KISS principle in this case. As a manufacturer Steve is prudent to provide a margin of safety not to drive his equipment to the higher limit as there is a possibility that components may fail within the lifetime warranty. I am willing to take this chance for performances sake.
Comments about the caps blowing up: If the caps installed are of the right voltage the caps should not blow up. I believe Steve when he mentioned about the cap that blew up in his workshop was one rated lower. I found this experience feedback from Steve very helpful and so am making doubly sure that the caps I install have a voltage that is high enough. There are amps and power conditioners with 20 times or more than the capacity in the ZMA in the Farad range let alone micro-Farads that we are talking about. I just bought a iFi Pro iDSD DAC that has 6.8 Farad !!! capacitors.

Quote:


Yeah, I got that, hence the          

Guilty as charged, LR.
It will cost me twice as much (+?) to witness the Torii JR jacked/25th. Or, do I do my ZMA?  .....I don't know........ .
I'm enjoying GL Cryo'd KT88's right now before the Viking's game at 7:20 pm....saying to myself........no need...this is really - really good!

Yeah, audiophile needs.....a good thing if it takes Steve 4 to 6 months to get Caps.....decisions - decisions....my(our)/good problem to have....Torii JR 25th or the more affordable ZMA .....cost!

....for those lurking (in which is a good thing - all good)....this is not Audiophilia Nervosa
https://www.stereophile.com/content/audiophilia-nervosa-1

....when Steve/Decware does Enhancements....it matter's. ....for me personally, it is between touching or not touching my perfect** ZMA (in my System/Kabling-YMMV).....or getting or not getting the Torii JR 25th.  ....I think that made sense...... .


**perfect? .....damn close....41 years and counting.....started when I was 13...do the math...yes, like Steve....I can still hear.
(still....of course protect my hearing at Live Events)
https://www.bing.com/shop?q=etymotic+research+ear+protection&FORM=SHOPPA&originI...
.....YOUNG LISTENER'S ....IF YOU'RE IN IT TO WIN IT AND THE LONG HALL...PROTECT YOUR HEARING & BRAIN.
....and quit cranking Apple ear buds...in your head...before it is to late...public service announcement, has now ended.  8-)









Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Yes, this inexpensive T-port is good...I sh__ you not!
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, @ 16/192)
.....0.0, -0.5 or -1.0dB/Input Volume

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~***********************~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol Cryo'd 7581A's, Reflector Cryo'd 6P's or Gold Lion KT88's Cryo'd

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps

Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
Auralex Subdude




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport & ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
System configured/on floor/Townshend CD Seismic Sink deployed & other isolation devices.





~Constants:
NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes (yes/the painfully expensive ones, from Upscale Audio = worth it, yes)
NOS RCA 0A3's.

Rotation/Power Quads:
~Matched Quad's~

Tung-Sol Cryo'd 7581A's
Reflector Cryo'd 6P's
Gold Lion KT88's Cryo'd
PENDING PURCHASE ~ GL KT77'S or T-Sol 7027A's.


Rotation/Input Tubes:
~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio~

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair

~Control/came with ZMA~
(Russia) 6N23P ~ 2 pair.
     

Stone, I don't have a negative thing to say about my ZMA with the upgrades.  Love it!

If you are going for upgrades, just get all 4.  Otherwise, you'll always wonder what might be missing or gained.

Even though my little Zen amp isn't as fully massaged as the 25th Anniversary Zen, it's got enough of that DNA that I've been listening to it almost exclusively, even over the Mystery Amp.

So if the Mods can get the ZMA to sound closer to the little Zen, it's absolutely 100% worth doing! Even if you could only get all but the big caps done, the other mods should get you most of the way there...then add the big caps as they come in. In fact, that's what I'm hoping to do if I can figure out how to afford the upgrades...hell, I've said it before, I'll sweep floors and clean the toilet at the shop if that's what it takes! LOL

Yeah, I love the 25th Anniversary amp that much, that I feel getting the ZMA there is imperative. The ZMA has been my workhorse, go-to amp due to its consistent, ballsy great sound...it just needs that speed and micro-detail the comes with speed that the little Zen has.

My 25th Anniversary upgraded ZMA is on its way back to me. Should have Wednesday. Got all the upgrades, no use doing it only part way if I’m going to the trouble. I’ll report back after a few days when I have time to listen to my reference tracks - still a working guy. BTW, Steve installed the glass resistors as well.

Yeah, as good as we know the Torii JR 25th will be (and look forward to reading of its progress ~ to be enjoyed)....I need to do my ZMA for complete satisfaction. As you put it LR: "need its ballsy great sound...it just needs that speed and micro-detail that comes with speed that the little Zen* has." Archie is digging his, Norm will give us some impressions soon...and lets not forget J oF A of his own volition.

I read you on the budget issue LR! However, I'm scrapping it up and sending to Steve the 8th or 9th after the Fest....I should be able to get her on the road to the Mothership.

Special screen resistors on the Ultra-linear taps: 150
......prerequisite for all mods to follow. The reason is that all mods to follow are increasing the speed and resolution of the amplifier and these screen resistors automatically balance those increases as we go.

Beeswax Bypass Caps: 500
Speed

Glass Resistors: 380
......these N.O.S. vacuum tube metal film resistors are basically the best in the world.

= 1030 + round trip shipping.....sharp rocks water fall? Bring it on!  8-)




* ....get the sound closer to a little Zen/25th'd....could not agree more.

(Original Signature maintained below....SE84CS.....I remember when I hooked it up out of the box......not cliche'....scrapping my jaw up off the floor. Nice, I also had Peter Madnick's AA DAC with adjustable voltage output...yeah back in May of 2001, for my SE84CS....remote wand with adjustable voltage output from my Chair/owned new since 1994/Audio Alchemy).

LR:  I have a ZP3, ZSTAGE, ZTPRE but no other Decware power amps.

Buy fewer tubes.....

Speaking of tubes Norm, it's going to be interesting how the mod's influence your tube set preferences... a lot....not at all? Time will tell.

My two favorite runnings are:

NOS Mullard input ~ NOS Telefunken inverter ~ New Prod Reflector quad
....sweet in the pocket bliss!

then....put in NOS Ediswan input ~ NOS Telefunken stays as inverter ~  New Prod 7581A T-Sol quad
....more dynamic extended in the Treble....rock solid definition bass!

NOS RCA 0A3



My KT66's are on very long hiatus!

KT88's are fun....but don't do it for me as the above Tri Fig's do. I will possibly sell them sometime this winter after a few more go rounds.

YM (not May) it will Very, if you're not runnng Kimber Select. Belden ain't gonna cut it.

I'm at a level of detail and realism due to my Kimber Select KS1030 & KS6063.

NO one (and I repeat no one) knows on this Forum, what this sounds like. It is profound. I would periodically put in other cables and they can't showcase what the ZMA really can do. Apparently Ray Kimber and team....do know something about capacitance and inductance?! Cable's should not matter but they do!

I could take my KS6063 to your home and let it be the only variable we change in your System....we will even keep your current IC's.....you will shit your pants. Long as you're not running some over wrought 97db @ 1 watt/1 meter garb.
+, if you have taken your ZMA to far....WITHOUT the SPECIAL screen resistor's on the Ultra-linear taps!!!!

So, the upgrade might not be what I need and may be to much in my System. I might buy a Torii JR 25th'd....check it out for awhile.

It is amazing what good old fashioned 16/192, can sound like out of Steve's Output Stage.
....it makes me chuckle....about the other formats.....in which/I do want Tidal coming in though..... .









Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Yes, this inexpensive T-port is good...I sh__ you not
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, @ 16/192)
.....0.0, -0.5 or -1.0dB/Input Volume

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~***********************~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol Cryo'd 7581A's, Reflector Cryo'd 6P's or Gold Lion KT88's Cryo'd

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps

Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
Auralex Subdude




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport & ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
System configured/on floor/Townshend CD Seismic Sink deployed & other isolation devices.





~Constants:
NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes (yes/the painfully expensive ones, from Upscale Audio = worth it, yes)
NOS RCA 0A3's.

Rotation/Power Quads:
~Matched Quad's~

Tung-Sol Cryo'd 7581A's
Reflector Cryo'd 6P's
Gold Lion KT88's Cryo'd
PENDING PURCHASE ~ GL KT77'S or T-Sol 7027A's.


Rotation/Input Tubes:
~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio~

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair

~Control/came with ZMA~
(Russia) 6N23P ~ 2 pair.

Signature below, is my homage to my original SE84CS/#76...back in 2001.

I would make this bold statement and I DID.

The ZMA and I would include probably all of the Decware Line, ME/having owned a Torii III, SE84CS & Super Zen CKC and my now ZMA for almost 5 years.

.....worthy of the best cabling......and the use of profound is not hyperbole.

I have tried many times to OUST this Speaker Cable (KS6063). Disclaimer:  I realize its cost and I was fortunate to obtain at half price from a deal I struck at the CableCO.

My POINT....if you move in to the ZMA price range and FIDELITY....CableCO in some top flight Cable..... ....it matter's.

Well, I think it's fair only to say "For me" when you make that sort of statement about a particular cable. Just saying. We all have different tastes, rooms, and "ears" and neither of us is wrong if we've made an extensive cable exploration and prefer a different cable than another. So much is personal. Extreme generalizations and absolutes in audio are in my opinion just not possible. I ignore them when I see them, they turn ME off. Just saying, that's me, and I struggle to refrain from them. To each their own.

I don't at all disagree that when you reach this level of fidelity that one should explore the best cabling if one can. There is a level to climb to if possible and we can each find that and there's fun in the journey.

And my experience with the 25th Anniversary mods in two components lead me to think you would be better served modding the ZMA, just my feeling and thought. Hope that you will still consider it.

Fully agree. There are layers of fidelity to reveal in these Decware products. . . they are lifetime exploration projects.

Congratulations Norm!

Quote:


Cripes! Has it been almost 5 years!!!

“I can say my amps better utilize and improve, not only good cables, but everything else in my system....source, tubes, speakers, room...everything.”

There’s the point, no matter how good the cables are, and I do believe that cables make a difference, cables cannot change the design or the components used to execute the design.  Certainly different cable designs can be more revealing of what is upstream and one would expect that would be a good thing, but the reality is that it some instances the reverse is true.  That is another discussion.  The point being, as Lon stated, none of us can be absolute about anything when making recommendations as their are too many variables to consider and no matter how much time and experience we have gathered over the years we still have a lot more to learn, that is what the UFO25 has so forcefully brought to my attention.

In addition I have considered the observations and sentiments of all to have merit even if those observations seem to conflict with the conclusions that I have reached and by doing so I have benefitted.  Observations that are presented with passion serve to open my mind but we have to be careful not to allow our passion to become dogmatic absolute statements as those can be very counterproductive for all.

If that were to happen it would be a shame.

Stone, I think instead of "Stone_of_tone" we'll call you Stone Hammer!  

So Joman, you don't understand what you wrote?

What you wrote was shlock DOGMA!

Let it unfold Norm and have no fear. This is civil.

The weakest link in my audio chain is me!
How happy I am changes everything profoundly.

Back to ZMA mods...  I'm finding that the ZR2 is not as big a factor with my modded ZMA as it was before.  I still think it adds some nice qualities in the lower range but the bass enhancement isn't as needed and its effects are a bit more subtle.  It's easy to get too much too.

I find that to be true with the SE84UFO3 25th Anniversary Monoblocks and the HR-1 speakers as well. I admit with some of the recordings I have "too much" can be very nice. And with most before "too much" is a wonderful thing.

Yes, I read where you sold it.