So this new Zen will be happy with some 94db 2 ohm speakers with no crossover?

Steve, your enthusiasm for this Amp is infectious. I'm glad I waited to add/get back to your Triode design. I'm working for one come Christmas. If I can't run my mod Adagio's to my satisfaction(?) I will need to revisit a little higher sensitivity.

My ZMA System is a lock and goes nowhere. It is just time to climb back into your Triode, in addition.

Still digesting this new sound...  the speed of this amp changes perceived physics. It makes the amp sound like is has a lot more power. The music in fact sounds louder. You can feel it in the concrete floor where you stand, in fact everything is energized. This is fascinating to me since it's actually no louder and has no more measured power.  

I have a visualization that will help to explain the ideal power supply filter.

First for reference picture an 8000 gallon above-ground swimming pool, and that will be our capacitor. It's an endless supply of current but sadly it's a slow process to get that current where it needs to go.

Where does it need to go?  Each note in music has a frequency, or speed and will draw energy from the power supply the correlates with that frequency. For example, let's say there were only 88 notes in music that would ever be played because the only instrument on the entire planet was the piano. The ideal capacitor would be 88 smaller barrels instead of the large pool.

The total volume of water of the pool is divided into 88 parts, one for each musical note. The lower notes would draw from larger barrels and the higher notes would draw off smaller barrels. Each barrel is exactly the amount of water the note needs to play at full power. It's not more water so that we need to figure out what to do with the extra, and it's not less water so that we have to compromise the power of the note. This allows each note to play with perfect speed, i.e. no lag and at full power.  

Trying to suck water from the large pool for each note is by comparison a complete cluster -censored- that prevents each note from playing at it's full power and thereby cuts the power of the amplifier as a whole. Of course power is your least concern because the resolution that comes from having the correct size barrels to draw from is the real prize here.

Now this is nothing new, we've been doing power supplies like this for many many years, but on Zen Amplifiers where the transparency is so high, if it's not done right it will make the amplifier sound way worse. Also, it takes a LOT more room inside the amp, and a LOT more money, and because of the resolution I always feared people would shoot the messenger. Decware amps were already faster than just about everything and pushing the envelope for detail about as far as I was comfortable with, but now after hearing this I have to accept that digital has come a long way on the playback side and has never been a problem on the recording side of things.  

What is ODD is that with this amplifier, the bypass is not making power supply grain part of the experience like it would in any other amplifier. (Remember this amp filters the DC between a cathode and an anode for every tube.) Therefor it must have been the grain being featured over the top of the recording that made me think so many recordings weren't good. I am now finding that the things I dislike about digital when it isn't sounding perfect are actually less on this ultra resolution amplifier, not more. This is the very reason why I would not have bothered to go here on my own. It was my desire for a 25th anniversary Zen Amp to be better than anything ever done here before that got the Audio Gods involved to make this happen because if I had any intention on making a Zen amp faster, I would have by now.  

The power supply temperature was the first sine they were heavily involved (Thank God) and the fact that I liked it better than anything else while it was still technically broken gave me the time and the space to listen to the amplifier and finish the voicing of the power supply.  All of the bypass caps were chosen based on their sound as coupling caps in the signal path. I think I used 4 different types which I am certain has a great deal to do with the synergy that is taking place. A) it only took 24 hours to go from questionable to incredible and most power supply mods like that would take a week or more. B) the way it is sculpting out space from nothing is like the expanding universe. There is a tonality to the signature that reminds me of playing mismatched but like minded speakers together and hearing what happens to resulting frequency balance. (Always way better). I recognize that in the sound and I know it's from the cap recipe.

I'm a little disappointed I didn't explore this, (as in I had to be lead by the hand to the answer like a completely lost cause) sooner and on my own. As I nurse my ego back to health which isn't ever going to happen because it's impossible while I listen to the amp, and I can't stop listening to the amp. I have an entire music library to revisit, and a dozen pair of speakers to hear for the first time, so I've got no chance of a recovery.

Interestingly I am working on two things simultaneously... one is this 25th anniversary Zen, and the other is a prototype for a lower price zen that maintains the same price/performance ratio to get more people hooked into this side of the wonderful hobby we call audio. As a result of this experience with power supply design, I am already clear on what to do and how on the other prototype.  I'll give up more on that later, but I want an entry level amp that is below the price point of our current SE84UFO amplifier.

Back to the amplifier sound... one thing I noticed since my last ramblings is that I caught it sounding like an amplifier usually does after 10:00 p.m. at 1:30 in the afternoon which really just never happens.

Right now I'm listening to bells, triangles, chimes, and things that always have been hard to get right in a digital system, and are so easy in an analogue rig. Tonight on this amp they sound right, at least 97% what I would consider perfect. Keep in mind I haven't listened to analog on this amp yet, because I'm a little scared of it ; )  But I will.


Steve

Some observations from tonight:

I am noticing a different curve that plots the difference between good recordings and great ones. Before the a great recording was about twice as good as a good recording suggesting a somewhat linear curve. Now bouncing between all these same recordings the difference is so far up to between 3 and 4 times better suggesting an exponential curve.

I feel like my ears and hearing in general feel 30 years younger.  

I just can get over the tone. The tonal colors are so overwhelming your mind spills the excess off to your sense of smell and taste.  You can taste the sound.

Dynamics are non-existent as a topic or descriptor. The music just is. There is no dragging it down or hyping it up. When I say it just is, I should specify that it sounds and feels real. You sit there and marvel at it like a kid who just saw Santa Clause for the first time!

Bass & Drum Intro Niles Lofgren Band: Drum and Bass solos are spellbinding and absolutely huge. This is the part that would completely short out someone who has never heard what genetically evolved two watt amplifier can do.

Saitensprung Friedemann: The music has such density and is so tangible that I feel like I could walk on it. Again it just sounds completely real. This exceeds my reference (Acoustat monitor 4 with servo charge tube amps) and it's on cone speakers.

The Bridge Boris Blank: Ha! Surround sound has got nothing on this. Literally. It's just about hard to believe. Also if it wasn't this good, it would be easy to drive by without every pulling over. Glad I stopped.

Tears Run Dry Malia, Boris Blank: An example of a perfect recording in every way. It's a 12 out of 10. Sounds completely real now.

Yesterdays (Rudy Van... Paul Chambers: Just the most fulfilling stand up bass you've ever heard. This is a timbre and texture and tone demonstration as well as being completely 3D and there in front of you. The definition of the bow and strings is too real to have your eyes open because your brain starts to short out when you see nothing there. It's like your sensitivity is increased massively as I would imagine happens to a blind man. I still feel like my ears are getting fresher with every hour I log on this amp.

Have You Heard (feat... King Curtis, Nat Adderly, Wynto...:  It just sounds completely real. Big band music, exquisitely recorded in a big and old music hall.  This is one of those 70 feet wide stages that is 20 feet away from you and 30 feet deep. Horns sound delightful and and the cymbals on the drum kit just sound real.

Holy Crap!... I just had a thought. I hope I'm not dead!! That would explain why everything sounds so bleeping good!

I can imagine the sound I'm hearing is very similar to what you might hear with a 4 chassis fully battery operated directly heated triode amplifier designed by someone who knew what they were doing. It exists, just not for people with more brains than money.

Afro Dite Friedemann: This lights up your soundstage like a Christmas tree, and then like an entire forrest.

Midnight Procession Borris Blank:  A great piece for late night listening. So real, so Big, so layered, just as always really impressive engineering on these recordings. If all recordings were done so well we would all be addicted to our stereos and unable to go to work!

Of course once you go here, it's time to have a beer and and just visit for awhile. 30,000 Days Yello

Yea, the whole album is good.  

I noticed that a couple times when the music put on the breaks, I slid forward off the couch and almost face planted on the floor.  This is the kind of realism I'm talking about... seems to mess with all your other senses. Your level of tactical involvement with the music is super peaked.

The more I listen to this amplifier the more clarity everything I know seems to have. It's like reading from the book of knowledge as you start to connect the dots. A deeper understanding of musics ability to use mans simple oscillator as a carrier to modulate its will.

Certainly there is a greater understanding for the recording process since you can now hear 4 times deeper into the mix.  

Another interesting observation is that all those nagging room acoustic issues that you would like to get to are suddenly some distorted rubbish of your own imagination because clearly when you hear this amps sound, there is no need for improvement.  It's like the room just fixed itself.  Or like the music just phased your room into another dimension where it would have no effect on the music.

Going to man up and try some analog here in a minute.  Been nice chatting with ya.

Cat's are great listening buddies as many audiophiles know. A cats ears never lie. You can learn a lot about your room and speakers by watching the cats ears triangulate the sound sources.  

Tonight the cat is hearing things behind the speakers that aren't really there from the speakers, but as I pointed out earlier, are actually there.  I hear it, the cat hears it.

Going to finish off the night with Live in Berlin, Yello.  I chickened out on the analog.  Even though I have a lot of Yello on LP until the DAC quits amazing me like it is, I just have to put off analog.  This is the first time in my life that I have ever loved digital.  Why ruin it right?

I'll let myself continue for another day without spoiling it.

Something pretty amazing is happening...  a few beers into the wind now. Some of you are familiar with the 1dB per beer rule. We're three beers in, thus 3dB louder than when we started. I'm listening to Live in Berlin by Yello on tidal, the Master series version of the album.  I shit you not, I am attending a live Borris Blank concert in Berlin in my listening room on a 2 watt amp.

It's impossible with 94dB speakers.  A 104 dB speaker, perhaps... Yet it's happening. I don't want to hear it any louder or any softer.  It's at the magic level... the ZMA level even though we know that's impossible.  So this is the power of micro speed in an amplifier. Simply insane to be pulling this off on a 2 watt amplifier and having it sound so real, so big, so deep, so dense, like a live concert sounds?!?  

It's got me completely involved in the concert and experiencing it live. Boy you could really mess with someone's mind if you blindfolded them and turned this on. See what happens when they discover there are only two speakers in the room.

Music like this pushes the performance boundaries of the amplifier which is always of great interest to the designer, and it's so different it's just a nice escape.

Jeff, kind words for sure, but yes, been wanting to do it for a long time, and then decided I am going to do it because I'm tired of wanting to do it.  Also going to be adding some more DIY amplifier kits here very soon, and we all know that how many of us got hooked into the hobby.

Steve

Yea, I can relate to the night owl... that's when things get clear and accomplished.

The concert is over and this is a trip... the clapping and cheering at the end was the best part!!!  So real.  SO REAL.

Fascinating reports Steve. I'm not familiar with the music you are listening to, nor am I a beer or alcohol drinker, but know that the sound must be delicious. I know there are many who have their appetite to experience sound like this thoroughly whetted now!

Well I hope I can come hear this amp soon!

I checked out some of Steve's tracks on Tidal.  Nice recordings.  May not be everyone's cup of beer, but I really like the Yello Live in Berlin.

I may have missed this in an earlier post, but Stone mentioned this amp being in the price range of a Mk IV.  Is that the current estimate?

I'd have to sell more stuff.  I appreciate some of the technology trickling down to lower price amps, but I'd like to figure out a way to buy this amp.

I hear ya. I'd like to buy two of them! (I'd need to mono block them). I'd need to sell a lot too. I just might.

Palomino, Steve stated in reply#440:

"a zen amp that might well be the same price as the TORII MKIV... I'm not counting at this stage, just excavating for that treasure that will pay for all the excavation. ; )"

Studies, shmudies. I have seen what I have seen with my own eyes, and I've had my own experiences, and I don't at this point in my life like to drink nor be around those who do. Which is neither here nor there. It's not required to enjoy music, and in fact in my days of making music it got in the way of good music more often than not.

I only mentioned it in this thread in that the "third beer" rule of things getting higher in volume and somehow "deeper in listening" (a fallacy) is not in my repertoire

Enjoy what you enjoy. I'm drinking sparking mineral water, milk and coffee as my staples. I'm not judging, just saying how it is with me.

Ha!  Just a hop skip Stone!  ;)

No doubt Jeff! If I was in 3 hour range...I would become the unwelcome house guest.  ;D

Quote:


I wouldn't be surprised if Steve kept me at bay for a bit...the past two visits when checking out something Steve was excited about I was like:

HA! Ren & Stimpy!

Yes, understandable, Steve is not ready to have anyone in yet.


Not that he is worried whether you Like or not.

He, is just not ready to have anyone in-at this development spot/position in time-common sense to me.

Archie, understood and well-expressed. I do know that my "listening" has really improved over the last two decades, especially the last, but none of us can hear into these amps the way Steve, creator and student/master of the electrical interface with music can and does.

I listen to my system and am very happy. But I do know that Steve creates improvements by "blood, sweat and beers" as Richard Rawlins says, and they ARE exciting to hear. And it's hard not to want that improvement, even as we listen in contentment to the blessings he has helped us attain in the past. But it's wise to keep things in perspective. Wise, and a struggle to do so.

I totally get that, I'm a skeptic at heart; when I go in, I go in with as neutral of a mindset as I can, or an "OK, Impress Me" attitude like a producer seeing yet another starlet that wants to make it big.

It's rare that something really Wows me fully. DirectStream did (and has with *most* of the OS updates), ZMA did right off the bat. Steve's old listening room in the early days of the Zen amp definitely did. And the prototype for the 25th that Palomino is borrowing. Not really much else has.

Quote:


Damnit, if you aren't listening to it I'll just come and get it then!

I think it's serial # 47 or 49

I'll let Jeff get serial #1 and #2 of the 25th anniversary, and I bet Stone will get #3, then change his mind, then change his mind again, then change it back.    I'd be in line for the 25th, but I don't see me being able to afford it anytime soon. Maybe if Steve kept it under $1500.

Bugger - I'm going to do donuts in your lawn with my truck.  :P

It will be interesting (as I mentioned in my reply#490):

Entry level Zen (like Eric's little Zen hot rod/presumably or better)

vs.

Anniversary Zen (whole other league).

The mods to Eric's amp were *not* inexpensive.  

If Steve can bring some of this to a Zen and keep it in the ballpark of a Rachael, that would be great.  Using the same caps I don't know how he would do it, but he is Steve and I am, well, not Steve

[quoteValid point Archie, but having listened to what Steve came up with for Raven I tend to buy into his enthusiasm here.

Even though I still have it, I won't put it back into my system because my Rachael pales in comparison.  I don't want to be spoiled and then have it taken away.] [/quote]

This, and what follows in other posts is NOT helping me keep perspective!!!!