Very cool JOMAN; I look forward to your report.

Definitely there must be some advantages to whatever disadvantages of cryofreezing. Metals do change with this treatment, but I also wonder what effect it might have on say the grease/lube inside of the potentiometers. Maybe no different than my truck acting like a tank when it is -20 around here, and then returning to normal after the temps rise again. I am also looking forward to hear of any changes after this process is done.

Honestly, you do such a great job of describing what you hear I just want to know what you think the difference is. However you want to measure it. I expect you'll want to try different tubes regardless and cryo'd or not that will be very interesting.

Hi. Wondering if you have an update on the Cryogen Processing?

Sorry for the late response.  Been distracted with a purchase of a house some distance away.

No update yet.  I should be getting it back week following next assuming it ships on Monday.  I asked Don to take his time listening to it after it's processed. So now that Axpona is over and the test listening is over I should have it back and a report this month.

A couple of things that I do know is that processing it didn't hurt it and evidently the results are quite significant, more so than even with the CSP3-A.

It's been running his new OB speakers that have four 15" drivers without any issues and the UFO25 will run them at levels that louder than he is comfortable with... sooooo... I do have room for those speakers in the new home.... hmmmmmmmm😬

I think John is referring to the preamp that way as it is a CSP3 with all the mods present in the 25th anniversary CSP3.

The UFO25 is back and I've had my initial listen after CryoToning...

Is it broken? NO!
Is there a difference? YES!!

I left everything as it was before it was sent in.  I do have new DHC-1 power cables but have not installed them yet.

What's the difference?  

I could say that the sound is more relaxed but just as dynamic, I hate to use the expression it's more analogue because that doesn't really describe it.  I could talk about the improvement in separation, tone, timbre, and especially timing... etc, etc, etc!  but that wouldn't do it justice.

The only way I can think of putting this into words is that the music is now at an ENTIRELY VISCERAL level.  I can feel the music, the expression in the voices deep inside me and throughout my whole body, no matter the artist or genre... and the bass, which was very good, very resolving, now is felt at... the visceral level far more so than before and that is sans the ZRock2A.

I'm going to be spending more time with it this evening.  Then I will roll some NOS tubes that I have a familiarity with and see what difference the CryoToning makes, if any.

In the meantime, is there a way to change my handle??? As CA J suggested, MR. FREEZ is what it should be now.

Glad this worked out so well, I'm seriously considering getting the treatment for my UFO25s down the road. Interested in how it sounds with non-cryo tubes.

I need to send in my Ford truck ASAP.

Actually, in some cases, I think that there would be some benefit by this process, but I am unsure what components it would serve best. Something tells me that transformers would be affected by the alignment of the metal.

This is for you CA James (and anyone else of course)... and it was challenging to keep my objectivity in this process...

Initially I was going to roll my TAD EL84STC's but they were nowhere to be found.  I must have sold them along with all the 6P15PEV that I had.  The reason that I wanted to start with these is that my memory of them is good and the CryoTone EL84-WC's are what started me on this journey.

So I chose the following instead:
6N1P Red Tip
Ampere BB 6DJ8 - I paid good money for this tube.  From the Tube Museum, Definitely NOS with perfectly matched sections
ADZAM E88CC SQ another top tube
Valvo PCC88 D Getter 50's vintage.  I have a fairly good memory of this tube

In all cases there was a difference, more so with some less so with others.

6N1P Red Tip.  Never was one that I kept in for long.  My memory of this tube is just OK and what I noticed is that I could now keep in for a longer period of time.  My memory is not good enough of this tube to comment in greater detail.

Amperex BB 6DJ8.  A definite improvement IMO.  When I had my Cary Rocket 88R I tended to gravitate to Amperex tubes but not so much with the UFO's.  A little too much mid emphasis.  Not anymore.

Valvo PCC88 D Getter. I liked this tube second only to the ADZAM.  I found that it could be a little on the edgy side especially with some recordings.  Not as edgy anymore for sure.

ADZAM E88CCC SQ.  This tube I remember as I kept it in the input of my CSP3-A.  Definite improvement, more refined and if I had not experienced what I now have it would likely be the keeper and I'd be happy with it.

The challenge that I had in this process was to try not to compare it with the Cryotone 12AU7-WCL.  In my experience this is a very special tube even among the CryoTone tubes.

To sum this up, the processing made a difference.  It did not transform the tubes into something wildly better, but a difference it made for sure.  Since I only worked with the input tubes I don't know what the accumulative effect would be if I had all NOS tubes in the amp and preamp.  If you were to decide to process your UFO25's you would be the judge of that.

Disclaimer: the following is NOT a pitch... Now If you had all Cryotone tubes and especially the 12AU7-WCL I'd say (let's see...how to put this?? I know) Buddy, what are you waiting for?
😉.

Thanks, I appreciate the effort. My UFOs are still a few months out, and then there is break in and a bunch of tube rolling, and then we’ll see how I feel about sending them in from the freeze. FWIW in a moment of weakness I bought some cryo treated EL822 tubes from a guy in Spain so I guess I’m dipping my toe in the freezer, so to speak.

Stoked to hear your results, JOMAN.
Am I understanding correctly that you are running a 12au7 in place of the 6922 type in the UFO? I know that adapters are available but do they up the heater from 6v to 12v?
Either way, looking forward to my amp arriving someday and exploring the possibility of having Don treat it. I’m really enjoying his tubes in the meantime. I see a pair of 84s on my horizon.

Regarding the Siemens ECC82, Im referring to the nickel plate version, noticed that I didn't add that very important tidbit.

FYI/FWIW the 12AU7 will work with either 6 or 12 volts for the heater depending on the connection. A proper 6922 to 12AU7 adapter will wire the heater correctly for 6 volts.

I’ve had good luck with adapters from xulingmrs on eBay. I can’t say that about other sellers.

For future reference, I am reposting this reply to the Cryogenic Processing my UFO25:

And........, it sounded great!  I want to take a few evenings of listening before saying too much, as I didn't want to go only on first impressions.  That being said, my first impressions were overwhelmingly positive.

On second thought, I am thinking about last night's experience now, and I have some notes to refer to, let's see what I can add.

As I said, my UFO25 amp returned from its deep freeze at Wathen Speakers Thursday afternoon. The entire process took about a month. During that time, my Torii MKIV returned to a well-treated listening room, sounding better than ever. More than once, I thought it might be challenging for the returning UFO25 to surpass the Torii in terms of listening enjoyment, but that's precisely what it did.

First Impressions:

Don wrote that the amp would require no burn-in time and that I would hear sonic improvements from the start, which I did. My first impression was that the sound was brighter than before but not blaring - historically, I'm sensitive to that.  This was more of a crispness of sound, especially with percussion, which caught my attention, and I enjoyed it.

The bass was better - improved over what I remembered. I miss bass when absent, but I rarely love it. With last night's listening, however, an affection was present. The bass had smoothness and resonance that was not there before.

There was a noticeable separation between the left and right channels and between the notes. I tried to describe this change to myself, and it wasn't easy. Before, as best as I can remember, it was as if the notes were pushed together, with less separation between them. The word "smeared" comes to mind, but that sounds too critical. Last night, the notes had more individuality; there was space between them. The sound I heard was fast but with more clarity than before.

Vocals especially were better, with a more emotional tone. There was more discernable emotional expression. For example, if a song and its lyrics described a seduction within a relationship, I could hear and feel it. Sexy.

One last note I made had to do with tracks featuring saxophones. I'm not a big sax fan, with some notable exceptions - Johnny Hodges, Paul Desmond on alto, and Stan Getz on tenor - not much more. Last night, each saxophone track that was on my playlist sounded good. What's that about!? What change in an amp could do that? Tonight, I'm going back to give another listen to some young guy on sax named Charlie Parker - perhaps I was too quick to judge his sound. Smiley

That's all I have from my notes. I was delighted with what I heard.

You don't say anything about the tubes you were using

Listening to my recently cryogenically processed UFO25 continues to please. So far, I have used two sets of tubes, and both sound great. Still, the results have surprised me. I want to explore these initial impressions further to see if I can account for the difference.

Tube Set 1 is what Wathen, I'm sure, would recommend from my tube inventory for the best results.  Except for the voltage regulator, all the tubes were CryoTones and included: (2) OB3s, (2) 6P15P, (1) 5AR4, and ECC88. The only non-CryoTone was a Raytheon JAN OD3A.  This group performed very well.

Tube Set 2 included (2) Tungram OC3s, (2) OTK 6P15P-EB, (1) Mullard GZ33, Amperex 7308 (White Label), and the same OD3A. I thought this set was noticeably better.

I want to mix it up tonight and see if I can account for the sonic differences that I heard between the two sets.   Again, both sets were excellent, but Set 2 was superior.

BTW, Don at Wathen told me that the cost of nitrogen is rising; therefore, the cost of CryoTone Processing for Decware amps will increase. Currently, it is $500. If you are considering this option, I suggest you contact him sooner rather than later to make arrangements.

Forgot to add, and you may already know, if you do try a 12AU7-WCL. you'll need an adapter.

CAJames, I'll pass that nitrogen line on to Don. It has been a fun project.  I'm curious to locate what makes one tube set sound better.  I have a second CryoTone 5AR4 that I can try. I'll try some other tube-swapping options to see if I can figure it out.

JOMAN, I have a CryoTone 12AU7, but I am unsure if it is a "Long Plate." How could I tell?  Thanks for the tip on the adapter. I thought that might be the case, but you saved me the search.

JOMAN,

The description you provided from the Wathen website is the same as mine on my Cryo 12AU7 tube, so I am trying it. Also, I changed one tube in my UFO25 Cryo group, which significantly changed the amp's overall sound. Replacing the Cryo 5AR4 with Mullard GZ33, the sound shifted from dark, relaxed, and smooth to bright, crisp, and fast. That was a surprise, and I tested it out a couple of times using two different Cryo 5AR4 tubes. I didn't realize that changing the rectifier would affect sound much. I like what I heard with that change, so the GZ33 stays put for now.