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Cryogen Processing my UFO25 (Read 7281 times)
JOMAN
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Cryogen Processing my UFO25
02/12/23 at 13:00:38
 
Well, my UFO25 is off to Wathen Audiophile for processing.  When completed and returned the CSP3-A and the UFO25 will have been "CryoToned" and will have a full set of Cryotone tubes.  After some hours on the processed UFO25 I'll revisit the tube complement to determine which combination of CryoTone tubes will end up being my "end" game choice.

It will likely be sometime in the second half of March before I can give an initial report.  What I can tell right now is that I haven't had this much fun and enjoyment since the early days when I started in this hobby.

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Tony
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #1 - 02/12/23 at 14:57:07
 

Very cool JOMAN; I look forward to your report.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #2 - 02/12/23 at 16:45:56
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tony      Posted on: Today at 06:57:07

Very cool JOMAN...

† † † † ^^^ Good one.

But seriously, I look forward to your report as well. I'm still not sure I want to spend the $$$ on cryo tubes, but for some reason cryo'ing the whole amp makes a lot more sense to me. Esp. if you'd be willing to try the amp with some of your pre-Cryotone tubes.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
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4krow
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #3 - 02/12/23 at 17:21:35
 
Definitely there must be some advantages to whatever disadvantages of cryofreezing. Metals do change with this treatment, but I also wonder what effect it might have on say the grease/lube inside of the potentiometers. Maybe no different than my truck acting like a tank when it is -20 around here, and then returning to normal after the temps rise again. I am also looking forward to hear of any changes after this process is done.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #4 - 02/12/23 at 23:12:30
 
Quote:
Esp. if you'd be willing to try the amp with some of your pre-Cryotone tubes.


I don't mind doing that except that I no longer have some of the NOS tubes that made up the complement that I settled on in the UFO25.  

This is what I had:
Rectifier: GZ34 Metal Base - Sold both
Power Tubes: 6P15PEV Red Tip (not treated)
Input Tube: TF PCC189, Valvo PCC 88 D Getter, ADZAM E188CC SQ (depending on what was in my CSP3-A).  Some of these may sell as I'll be advertising them locally.  

So the best comparison would be the 6P15PEV Red Tip with the CryoTone EL84-WC.  The Rectifier would be the Cryotone 5AR4-WC and the input and the input the CryoTone  12AU7-WCL w/adapter.  Keep in mind that I have already compared the 6P15PEV with the CryoTone EL84-WC and even with the advantage of the Hazen Grid Mod for the 6P15PEV the Cryotone EL84-WC was drastically different and preferred for me.

Would that change after the UFO25 is treated?  I hope so.  But the that would change for both tubes.  So the question would be; does treating the UFO25 narrow the gap between those tubes?

If your good with that I'll be happy to oblige.


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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #5 - 02/13/23 at 03:24:16
 
Honestly, you do such a great job of describing what you hear I just want to know what you think the difference is. However you want to measure it. I expect you'll want to try different tubes regardless and cryo'd or not that will be very interesting.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #6 - 02/13/23 at 04:42:33
 
OK, will do.  It probably won't be till the second half of next month.
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Glenn
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #7 - 05/01/23 at 15:40:52
 
Hi. Wondering if you have an update on the Cryogen Processing?
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Tony
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #8 - 05/01/23 at 18:37:00
 

+1
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #9 - 05/05/23 at 21:18:36
 
Sorry for the late response.  Been distracted with a purchase of a house some distance away.

No update yet.  I should be getting it back week following next assuming it ships on Monday.  I asked Don to take his time listening to it after it's processed. So now that Axpona is over and the test listening is over I should have it back and a report this month.

A couple of things that I do know is that processing it didn't hurt it and evidently the results are quite significant, more so than even with the CSP3-A.

It's been running his new OB speakers that have four 15" drivers without any issues and the UFO25 will run them at levels that louder than he is comfortable with... sooooo... I do have room for those speakers in the new home.... hmmmmmmmm😬

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Tony
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #10 - 05/05/23 at 22:30:07
 

Joman,

Very interesting.  I look forward to your review of this process.  Also, congrats on the new home.

I have a question about your reference to "CSP3-A"  What does the "-A" refer to?  You have been using it since 2018, but I could not find an explanation.


Thanks, Tony

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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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Lon
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #11 - 05/05/23 at 22:31:36
 
I think John is referring to the preamp that way as it is a CSP3 with all the mods present in the 25th anniversary CSP3.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #12 - 05/05/23 at 22:55:06
 
Hey Tony,

Lon is correct.  Not only did my CSP3 have the complete Anniversary mods it was completely re worked with Miflex caps added.  Steve referred to it as the most "pimped" CSP3 at that time.  So I refer to it as my CSP3-A, to make a long story short.

I then sent it in to Wathen for processing.  When I got it back it after the processing it was as if it completely disappeared.  Don Thomas felt that the UFO25 would benefit to even a greater degree.
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #13 - 06/17/23 at 16:34:23
 
The UFO25 is back and I've had my initial listen after CryoToning...

Is it broken? NO!
Is there a difference? YES!!

I left everything as it was before it was sent in.  I do have new DHC-1 power cables but have not installed them yet.

What's the difference?  

I could say that the sound is more relaxed but just as dynamic, I hate to use the expression it's more analogue because that doesn't really describe it.  I could talk about the improvement in separation, tone, timbre, and especially timing... etc, etc, etc!  but that wouldn't do it justice.

The only way I can think of putting this into words is that the music is now at an ENTIRELY VISCERAL level.  I can feel the music, the expression in the voices deep inside me and throughout my whole body, no matter the artist or genre... and the bass, which was very good, very resolving, now is felt at... the visceral level far more so than before and that is sans the ZRock2A.

I'm going to be spending more time with it this evening.  Then I will roll some NOS tubes that I have a familiarity with and see what difference the CryoToning makes, if any.

In the meantime, is there a way to change my handle??? As CA J suggested, MR. FREEZ is what it should be now.

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Tony
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #14 - 06/17/23 at 16:55:05
 

Hey Mr. Freez,

Good to hear your initial report, and I look forward to follow-ups. I almost wrote you last week to ask, "Well?" and now we know. In addition to your evaluation, how long did it take to process your amp?  Costs?

It must be a blast to have it back and functioning so well.

Enjoy, Tony
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #15 - 06/17/23 at 20:01:44
 
Glad this worked out so well, I'm seriously considering getting the treatment for my UFO25s down the road. Interested in how it sounds with non-cryo tubes.


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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #16 - 06/18/23 at 02:28:45
 
Hey Tony,

Wathen Audiophile is now offering this process for most if not all Decware amps.  Ive attached a link which shows the costs, check it out as it contains much more than just costs:
https://wathenspeakers.com/store/c28/Amplifiers_for_Loudspeakers.html

The UFO25 is $500.00, to put this in perspective I've easily spent that on one  NOS rectifier in the past, on a pair of cables and other accessories that didn't come close to these results.

I think I've figured out why... As I'm listening it seems that the UFO is now stronger, more density across the spectrum, more OOMPH without any hardness whatsoever.  The resolution is still there, even better.  I THINK, my opinion only, FWIW... the UFO now has greater control of the drivers in the Vintage 8HO... two 8" drivers per side, albeit with an efficiency in the high 90's.  The type of control that you would get from a higher power amp.

I am listening to various renditions of Unchained Melody as I write this.  It's the only way I can do this.  All the voices of the performers are considerably more present, without loosing any delicacy, without any hardness.  One rendition that surprised me last time I listened was that of Ricky Nelson, yup Ricky Nelson!  This time the difference in the voice was notable.  How to describe it?? I could now tell that the power and control in his voice was coming right from his diaphragm, that's the best that I can do.  It is smooth with a touch of male rawness and emotion.

Same goes for Lykke Li.  A female voice with such power and emotion coming from the depths of her body, not just the throat and mouth and then the harmony , delicacy and emotion as expresses by Cry Wolf and Roniit... set me back in my chair before and more so tonight.  

Next the live version of Encore/Caroline Campbell... strings, piano and the trumpet, oh that trumpet!  The separation, the presence, pitch, power and timing on a scale much larger than before... WHAT A TREAT!

And all this from a 2.3 watt amp???? You kidding??? I have a renewed appreciation of low power that doesn't at all come across as low power.  

In all this I forgot about how long it took.  Now, give it two to three weeks plus transportation.  Since Don has to group when he's processing electronics, IMO it may take a little longer and well worth it.  In my case three weeks is the time of the shipping, Ontario Canada to Texas and back.  Don will listen before processing to make sure that the amp is in good order and then again after.  I asked him to listen as he got the opportunity for an additional two weeks after processing and then we would talk.

CA tommorrow I'll try the NOS tubes.  Just so you know, I'm not looking forward to rolling my CryoTones 😵‍💫.



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4krow
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #17 - 06/18/23 at 05:06:56
 
I need to send in my Ford truck ASAP.

Actually, in some cases, I think that there would be some benefit by this process, but I am unsure what components it would serve best. Something tells me that transformers would be affected by the alignment of the metal.
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #18 - 06/18/23 at 12:30:52
 
Interesting you say that.  In my conversations with Don he mentioned that processing the Sarah 300B takes more time because "the transformer is massive".  I had my CSP3-A processed as well and I found, in comparison,  that there was a more pronounced difference after the UFO25 was processed.

As to what effect CryoTone processing makes on individual components this may be an interesting read: https://wathenspeakers.com/about-cryotone-processing-decware-equipment.html
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #19 - 06/19/23 at 03:24:52
 
This is for you CA James (and anyone else of course)... and it was challenging to keep my objectivity in this process...

Initially I was going to roll my TAD EL84STC's but they were nowhere to be found.  I must have sold them along with all the 6P15PEV that I had.  The reason that I wanted to start with these is that my memory of them is good and the CryoTone EL84-WC's are what started me on this journey.

So I chose the following instead:
6N1P Red Tip
Ampere BB 6DJ8 - I paid good money for this tube.  From the Tube Museum, Definitely NOS with perfectly matched sections
ADZAM E88CC SQ another top tube
Valvo PCC88 D Getter 50's vintage.  I have a fairly good memory of this tube

In all cases there was a difference, more so with some less so with others.

6N1P Red Tip.  Never was one that I kept in for long.  My memory of this tube is just OK and what I noticed is that I could now keep in for a longer period of time.  My memory is not good enough of this tube to comment in greater detail.

Amperex BB 6DJ8.  A definite improvement IMO.  When I had my Cary Rocket 88R I tended to gravitate to Amperex tubes but not so much with the UFO's.  A little too much mid emphasis.  Not anymore.

Valvo PCC88 D Getter. I liked this tube second only to the ADZAM.  I found that it could be a little on the edgy side especially with some recordings.  Not as edgy anymore for sure.

ADZAM E88CCC SQ.  This tube I remember as I kept it in the input of my CSP3-A.  Definite improvement, more refined and if I had not experienced what I now have it would likely be the keeper and I'd be happy with it.

The challenge that I had in this process was to try not to compare it with the Cryotone 12AU7-WCL.  In my experience this is a very special tube even among the CryoTone tubes.

To sum this up, the processing made a difference.  It did not transform the tubes into something wildly better, but a difference it made for sure.  Since I only worked with the input tubes I don't know what the accumulative effect would be if I had all NOS tubes in the amp and preamp.  If you were to decide to process your UFO25's you would be the judge of that.

Disclaimer: the following is NOT a pitch... Now If you had all Cryotone tubes and especially the 12AU7-WCL I'd say (let's see...how to put this?? I know) Buddy, what are you waiting for?
😉.

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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #20 - 06/19/23 at 03:30:16
 
Correction... The ADZAM is a E188CC SQ not a E88CC SQ
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #21 - 06/19/23 at 04:21:38
 
Thanks, I appreciate the effort. My UFOs are still a few months out, and then there is break in and a bunch of tube rolling, and then weíll see how I feel about sending them in from the freeze. FWIW in a moment of weakness I bought some cryo treated EL822 tubes from a guy in Spain so I guess Iím dipping my toe in the freezer, so to speak.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #22 - 06/19/23 at 12:39:44
 
I have a couple of more tests to go and after that the rolling is over.  Wathen  now has a gold pin ECC88.  I want to try those in the output position of my CSP3-A which now has the non gold pin version and finally I'm going to roll a Cryotone OD3 in the UFO25.  Then it's back to power cables, connectors.

Finally, if the budget allows the Dave and the Wathen OB speakers.
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #23 - 06/20/23 at 03:54:20
 
Stoked to hear your results, JOMAN.
Am I understanding correctly that you are running a 12au7 in place of the 6922 type in the UFO? I know that adapters are available but do they up the heater from 6v to 12v?
Either way, looking forward to my amp arriving someday and exploring the possibility of having Don treat it. Iím really enjoying his tubes in the meantime. I see a pair of 84s on my horizon.
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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #24 - 06/20/23 at 18:34:43
 
Hey Manny,

Yes, I am using an adapter with the Cryotone 12AU7-WCL.  The information that is available for a particular adapter is limited so what effect the particular adapter that I am using has on the heater current I don't know.

I had a conversation with Steve as I was rolling various tubes and he did say that the amp is not designed to have a 12AX7 but a 12AU7 with an adapter is OK.  So I look for a 12AU7 to ECC88/6922/6DJ8 etc.  Be aware though, the adapter can make a huge difference, I'll explain...

I am also using a CryoTone 6SN7-WC with an adapter in my CSP3-A which then goes into the UFO25 with the Cryotone 12AU7-WCL (if you're going to try one make sure it's the WCL or Long Plate).  I tried the 6SN7 with a gold plated socket adapter and also with a rhodium plated socket in the CSP3-A.  The rhodium plated socked was cheaper and hugely better.  Go figure!  So it's the combination that counts.

About the 12AU7-WCL.  I have said that it is a very special tube here's why... it bests the Siemens ECC82 in focused sonic image hands down and it is not devoid of the mids which can make the Seimens "bright".  The Siemens ECC82 and the TF 802S are noted for the quality of focused sonic image.  Now we're talking some very pricey tubes.

Practically this is what it means... With the right complement of tubes, including the VR tube by the way, I get to hear the effect the venue has in a live recording.  It's not just about imaging and layering in a technical sense.  In my earlier post I made reference to the live recording Encore/Caroline Campbell/Unchained Melody.  When the piano is played in the lower registers I feel that I'm hearing the note as it propagates in the venue, resolved and enhanced by the venue.  The same goes for the trumpet and any other instruments being played.  Now change the VR tube to an CryoTone OD3 and you loose some of the sonic image BUT the timbre of the instrument is more evident.  It's as if you are in front row centre vs 5th row centre.  There's no loss of timber with the 12AU7-WCL, it becomes what you would hear live in either of those positions.  It becomes a matter of preference.  the VR tube that I am using to get the best sonic image is the Raytheon OC3W.

I had that tube complement in the UFO25 before it was processed.  The difference now, especially after the 10 hour mark is well worth the cost of admittance.  I'm probably close to the 30 hour mark and now, when I work from home, it's always playing!

I felt that this long winded post was necessary to try my best to put it all in context.

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JOMAN
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #25 - 06/20/23 at 18:38:35
 
Regarding the Siemens ECC82, Im referring to the nickel plate version, noticed that I didn't add that very important tidbit.
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #26 - 06/20/23 at 19:19:15
 
Thanks for that explanation, JOMAN.  I've been really happy with the other tubes I have purchased from Don and given your review I'll take a shot at the 12au7.  Just didn't want to spend that money before finding out if it will work.  Until my Sarah arrives I'm using my zkit, so no VR tubes, but I look forward to getting the proper adapter and adding this 12au7 to my toolbox, along with the EL84s.  
The only tube I haven't been very impressed with from Wathan is the 5670, and with the description you just gave it makes me wonder if the problem is in the adapter and not the tube.  I spent extra for what I thought was the better gold-pin version.
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #27 - 06/20/23 at 23:07:10
 
FYI/FWIW the 12AU7 will work with either 6 or 12 volts for the heater depending on the connection. A proper 6922 to 12AU7 adapter will wire the heater correctly for 6 volts.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #28 - 06/21/23 at 04:37:57
 
Thanks for that info CA.
Any recommendations on adapters? I seem to recall the ďGarageĒ seller was recommended somewhere on this forum. Any others from experience?
Sorry, not intended to derail this thread.
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #29 - 06/21/23 at 06:39:10
 
Iíve had good luck with adapters from xulingmrs on eBay. I canít say that about other sellers.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Dominick
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #30 - 06/21/23 at 15:58:43
 
Iíll second CAJAMES commentÖIíve had very good luck with xulingmrs on eBay for the adapters.  Iíve ordered 3 adapters on two separate occasions with no issues.  

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th monoís, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERRís [Bubbinga Wood]
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Tony
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #31 - 09/23/23 at 15:34:54
 
For future reference, I am reposting this reply to the Cryogenic Processing my UFO25:

And........, it sounded great!  I want to take a few evenings of listening before saying too much, as I didn't want to go only on first impressions.  That being said, my first impressions were overwhelmingly positive.

On second thought, I am thinking about last night's experience now, and I have some notes to refer to, let's see what I can add.

As I said, my UFO25 amp returned from its deep freeze at Wathen Speakers Thursday afternoon. The entire process took about a month. During that time, my Torii MKIV returned to a well-treated listening room, sounding better than ever. More than once, I thought it might be challenging for the returning UFO25 to surpass the Torii in terms of listening enjoyment, but that's precisely what it did.

First Impressions:

Don wrote that the amp would require no burn-in time and that I would hear sonic improvements from the start, which I did. My first impression was that the sound was brighter than before but not blaring - historically, I'm sensitive to that.  This was more of a crispness of sound, especially with percussion, which caught my attention, and I enjoyed it.

The bass was better - improved over what I remembered. I miss bass when absent, but I rarely love it. With last night's listening, however, an affection was present. The bass had smoothness and resonance that was not there before.

There was a noticeable separation between the left and right channels and between the notes. I tried to describe this change to myself, and it wasn't easy. Before, as best as I can remember, it was as if the notes were pushed together, with less separation between them. The word "smeared" comes to mind, but that sounds too critical. Last night, the notes had more individuality; there was space between them. The sound I heard was fast but with more clarity than before.

Vocals especially were better, with a more emotional tone. There was more discernable emotional expression. For example, if a song and its lyrics described a seduction within a relationship, I could hear and feel it. Sexy.

One last note I made had to do with tracks featuring saxophones. I'm not a big sax fan, with some notable exceptions - Johnny Hodges, Paul Desmond on alto, and Stan Getz on tenor - not much more. Last night, each saxophone track that was on my playlist sounded good. What's that about!? What change in an amp could do that? Tonight, I'm going back to give another listen to some young guy on sax named Charlie Parker - perhaps I was too quick to judge his sound. Smiley

That's all I have from my notes. I was delighted with what I heard.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #32 - 09/23/23 at 17:46:23
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tony      Posted on: Today at 07:34:54

...my first impressions were overwhelmingly positive...


Nice writeup Tony. You don't say anything about the tubes you were using, are they the same as before the freeze?
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #33 - 09/24/23 at 16:22:40
 

You don't say anything about the tubes you were using

Listening to my recently cryogenically processed UFO25 continues to please. So far, I have used two sets of tubes, and both sound great. Still, the results have surprised me. I want to explore these initial impressions further to see if I can account for the difference.

Tube Set 1 is what Wathen, I'm sure, would recommend from my tube inventory for the best results. †Except for the voltage regulator, all the tubes were CryoTones and included: (2) OB3s, (2) 6P15P, (1) 5AR4, and ECC88. The only non-CryoTone was a Raytheon JAN OD3A. †This group performed very well.

Tube Set 2 included (2) Tungram OC3s, (2) OTK 6P15P-EB, (1) Mullard GZ33, Amperex 7308 (White Label), and the same OD3A. I thought this set was noticeably better.

I want to mix it up tonight and see if I can account for the sonic differences that I heard between the two sets. † Again, both sets were excellent, but Set 2 was superior.

BTW, Don at Wathen told me that the cost of nitrogen is rising; therefore, the cost of CryoTone Processing for Decware amps will increase. Currently, it is $500. If you are considering this option, I suggest you contact him sooner rather than later to make arrangements.
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #34 - 09/24/23 at 17:25:33
 
Tony, try a Cryotone 12AU7-WCL Long plate as the driver.  It is a lower gain tube but with your CSP2+ you and volume controls on the UFO25 you'll be able to compensate.  IMO, the 12AU7-WCL is a very special tube.
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #35 - 09/24/23 at 17:30:36
 
Forgot to add, and you may already know, if you do try a 12AU7-WCL. you'll need an adapter.
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #36 - 09/24/23 at 17:43:08
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tony      Posted on: Today at 08:22:40

...BTW, Don at Wathen told me that the cost of nitrogen is rising...



But...but..nitrogen is literally free as air... .

Thanks Tony, look forward to future updates.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #37 - 09/24/23 at 18:27:13
 

CAJames, I'll pass that nitrogen line on to Don. Smiley It has been a fun project.  I'm curious to locate what makes one tube set sound better.  I have a second CryoTone 5AR4 that I can try. I'll try some other tube-swapping options to see if I can figure it out.

JOMAN, I have a CryoTone 12AU7, but I am unsure if it is a "Long Plate." How could I tell?  Thanks for the tip on the adapter. I thought that might be the case, but you saved me the search.
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #38 - 09/25/23 at 00:29:22
 
I checked the Wathen site and only the Long Plate is shown - 12AU7-WCL.

In the driver position on my CSP3A Im running the 6SN7-WC and in the UFO25 the 12AU7-WCL.  That combination in my system works very well.  I have a pair of the 5AR4-WC V2 on the way but won't be able to comment for a couple of months.
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #39 - 09/25/23 at 20:50:42
 

JOMAN,

The description you provided from the Wathen website is the same as mine on my Cryo 12AU7 tube, so I am trying it. Also, I changed one tube in my UFO25 Cryo group, which significantly changed the amp's overall sound. Replacing the Cryo 5AR4 with Mullard GZ33, the sound shifted from dark, relaxed, and smooth to bright, crisp, and fast. That was a surprise, and I tested it out a couple of times using two different Cryo 5AR4 tubes. I didn't realize that changing the rectifier would affect sound much. I like what I heard with that change, so the GZ33 stays put for now.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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CAJames
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Re: Cryogen Processing my UFO25
Reply #40 - 09/25/23 at 21:02:28
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tony      Posted on: Today at 12:50:42

...I didn't realize that changing the rectifier would affect sound much. I like what I heard with that change, so the GZ33 stays put for now.


I'm glad you like the GZ33 . I think most of us would say that the rectifier has the biggest impact of any of the tubes, and for me the GZ33 made (by far) the biggest change (for the better) of any tube I tried.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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