You are on fire Lon!  I love it!  Congratulations. I am sure this pre in front of those monoblocks will be divine!  

Thanks Jeff and Alper! That makes me feel a little bit better making a possibly incorrect decision!

I'm wondering whether sources to ZTPRE to ZBIT to ZROCK2 to CSP3 and then to the Monoblocks is "one step too far" or whether it will be awesome. I don't want to abandon the ZTPRE which is an amazing component (both as a piece of equipment and as a part of the "magic") in my system. . . My gut tells me this will work and be worth it. We'll see. If not then the new CSP3 can be the heartbeat of my second system or be the headphone amp only in my main system, so it won't go to waste. . . .

In my opinion this 21st year of my journey with Decware is a pinnacle, and full of musical enjoyment.

Thanks Joe. I'll feel easier when I've managed to pay for it and actually afford it, but that will happen. I am doing my part to support Decware's growth, as many of us are. And dang I KNOW it will be a good sounding unit.

I could have saved by sending in one of my CSP2+ (if they can be modded) but they are white tops and gold knobbed and black top with ebony knob will match my Monoblocks. Hopefully the CSP2+ will help someone else's system if I sell them.

Well, the CSP2+ hasn't been in the main system since I got the ZTPFRE so it's more like adding another component than correcting the lowest denominator. And it won't cost me any other cabling or force me to come up with another rack space if it replaces the Taboo Mk IV as a headphone amp.

I hope I'm doing the right thing and that it works out that I can feed the ZBIT with my three sources through the ZTPRE and then use the ZROCK2 to feed the CSP3 with mods and use that to feed my Monoblocks. If it "works" it should yield even better sound from the CSP3 mods, AND improved headphone sound as well, a real win.

If it doesn't work. . . well then it doesn't work and I'll have probably fixed the lowest denominator component in my very infrequently used second system. . . .

I just got over a wait. . . and here comes another.

Yes, I did mention using the ZTPRE several times!  I'll find the optimum. . . but if the optimum is the ZTPRE out of the system I have a problem as I need the ZTPRE for the balanced inputs, all three of them. . . . And if I have to choose then I think the CSP3 will have to be in the second system (and I use that so infrequently I might as well not have it, so no use throwing money at it). Ah well. . . I'll work it out. First world problems!

Isn't the ZTPre a CSP3 on steroids? If so, why not get the anniversary mods done to the ZTPre instead? That would be the place within the chain that I would think about most.

lazb wrote on 04/29/18 at 20:35:28:

Awesome Joe, that's what I wasn't sure of reading the report from that night's listening. I'm not going to stress, I'm going to have great sound either way this pans out. .. I am pretty sure the headphone sound alone will be worth it if that ends up being the only use and the Taboo Mk IV will kick ass as a headphone amp upstairs in the second system. Thanks!

I received confirmation from Steve that a CSP2+ can be modded with the 25th Anniversary changes for an additional 100 dollars of the cost for the changes to the CSP3. That's good news for CSP2+ owners.

If you can put your hand on a pair of headphones, you can listen to the DNA2's from my listening chair by clicking on the video at the top of the forum titled DNA2 Speaker Demo.

What makes our high-efficiency speakers different from typical hifi speakers is the lack of a crossover and low moving mass brings a far more linear response with better dynamics.  Side-by-side the typical hifi speaker sounds congested and lifeless.

You won't find many reviews of our speakers because we have never shipped a pair out for review a likely never will because it costs too much, the speakers will get trashed by UPS, I won't see them again for about a year, and after the glowing review the only people who will buy them are a tiny fraction of those who read it, and despite what reviewers would like to think, not very many people actually read their reviews.  In fact I have tracked the traffic and looked at google anylitics for every review we've had over the years and these reviews are lucky to get a thousand hits in the first week and even luckier to get a 100 more over the next year.

If we were going to get into the review game, we would have to double the cost of our speakers so we could afford to send review samples to the entire review circuit and at the same time do the audio shows so that people when they see the review would recognize the speaker and want to read about it.

Steve

 

I appreciate your dilemma but eventually it comes down to trusting and taking the plunge or not.  There are ample examples of satisfied Decware plungers (me too)!  

Me too!
I am going from zero Decware to SE84UFO25, DNA2, ZBIT and ZROCK2 all at one time! I attended DECFEST last year and heard the DECWARE sound first hand, went home and sold my system, traveled back(an eight hour drive one way) to verify that what I had heard was what I was going to buy but, as soon as I heard the 25th Anni. amp and DNA2 speakers play, it was "game over" for me! Now I am in line and waiting for production.
Come on in, the water is excellent!!!!!!!!!!

Visit the mother ship!

He might not need a hotel if you guys spend 12+ hours in listening bliss !!

Hi Steve,
will there be an "official" CSP3-25 version in the future, or will it be an option like now that has the mods only internally?

Please do Steve, would like nice to have a 25th anniversary pre-amp matching the 25th anniversary amp!

Meanwhile, the Anniversary mods for CSP3 are going great.  I've done enough to get good at it, and have fine-tuned the mod for both Type I and Type II beeswax caps.  




The mod is an option now in the shopping cart for anyone who wants to purchase a new unit built this way.  It can be found in the shopping cart under the signal-cap section where you choose what type of signal-caps to have your CSP3 built with.

The one pictured is a CSP3 built with copper foil (type II) beeswax caps and then updated further with the Anniversary mod.  There are a total of 12 Jupiter Cryo-Treated beeswax caps in this modded unit, several poly film caps and two miniature solder-into-place voltage regulator tubes that will last the life of the preamp if they're not shorted.  

The headphone section is also bypassed with the copper foil beeswax caps.  

All of this takes a preamp / otl headphone amp that already sounds better than all of it's competition and punches it through the stratosphere.  

---

For the techies that want to know what is different, while we have a picture to look at... the standard CSP3 is built with a novel power supply design.  It features a simple pie filter using two caps and one resistor.  Very Zen. To negate the need for a choke, regulation, or anything else the power supply transformer is rated at 170 mA while the circuit draws only 30 mA.  The other novel part is that it is a signal node supply, meaning that all the B+ comes from a single point for all three tubes.  No attempt to segregate whatsoever.  This kept the timing the same for all three tubes which promotes cohesiveness.

The Anniversary mod takes the 10K 6.5 watt dale resistor in the pie filter and adds another 10K to it, dropping the value in half and doubling the wattage rating.  Heat drops in half.  Voltage increases.  Then it is sent through an added 1K 6.5watt resistor to a pair of miniature VR tubes which drop the voltage back down to the original value but without heat, and segregate the voltage between the two channels, so each VR tube serves 1-1/2 audio tubes.

Once the voltage gets through the VR tube, which acts like a miracle filter being in series with the supply, it then is accumulated in the cryo treated beeswax caps using a .47uf for each channel because it is big and has to supply 1-1/2 tubes.  Then we bypass that with another cryo beeswax cap at .022uf to balance out the speed for high frequencies.  These caps then feed the plate resistors of each tube.

The main filter caps also have to be bypassed with film caps, and the same applies.  There are two bypass caps for each filter cap to maintain a balance of speed to properly feed the VR tubes.

The performance went up, the distortion went down (it was already super low) and the noise floor that was also super low dropped even further.  The VR tubes can offer in some cases ten times the ripple reduction as an equivalent resistor with the same voltage drop and do it with no heat... so this mod is basically like running your CSP3 off high voltage batteries with bottomless current.  It doesn't get any better than this... but it's not cheep unless you put it in the perspective that nothing retail is available that does this, and a power re-generator for 6 grand or more isn't going to be half as good.

Steve

I've been listening to the ZMA for the past week on the DNA2 loudspeakers having come off a 6 month exclusive pairing between these speakers and the UFO25 anniversary amps.

Tonight I went ahead an implemented the upgrade which only took 8 beeswax caps.  There is nothing else that can be done to this amp without replacing original parts.  Of those, the only one that stands a chance of being obvious is the large 3 x 6 inch caps.  The 47uf F&T caps are wonderful on their own and now bypassed with beeswax caps, both a .47uf and a .1uf I don't see a cost justification to go with more expensive caps that probably don't last as long. So the large KEMET caps in the amp now are already twice as good of specs as the fancy Mundorfs, but specs don't always tell the whole story.  I have been researching possible candidates for a replacement that might best the KEMETs in the amp now and will start that process after the bypass caps have burned-in. This way I can hear what the bypass caps did, and then when I change the large caps I can hear if that was an improvement that justifies the price or not.  I'm not convinced the Mundorf is the answer, as it's longevity rating is so short (16,000 hours) vs. the 40,000 hours of the KEMET.

Believe it or not I suspect the winner will be the new production version of the "RED CAPS" that I sold the first ten amps with, or the Nichicons which both weigh in a 2.39 pounds ea.  Twice the weight of the KEMET.

So I guess the point of all this is to let you know the  ZMA mods are under way, and the bypass caps moved the amp a huge step in the right direction.  I can really listen to it now.

Steve

Steve,
With regard to the specifications on the large Mundorf caps, which model are you referring to?  

Jeff

My guess its the Mundorfs with their cathode coatings and foils should be the best sounding, but the tradeoff appears to be longevity compared to the industrial caps we've been looking at.  When I try the Mundorfs I will be attempting to get the larger size so that the physical size does not change over the original caps.  That will put the specs closer to what we currently have but with around twice the microfarads so certainly this should be audible.  The cost however is $300 or so per cap.  I am hoping these will be so good we don't care about the price, but they will have stiff competition in the coming months between the Nichicon, United Chem, and Mallary industrial caps.  The original red caps we shipped the first 10 amps were NOS Mallary made for nuclear power plants.

I am expecting in the end that the beeswax bypass will have far more effect than upgrading the electrolytics, but the spirit of the anniversary mods is that if the sound can keep up with the price we don't care how much it costs... so we will see.

Steve  

I received my 25th Anniversary CSP3 and am listening to the very first disc with it. I'm using the stock 6N1Ps and 6N5P and a Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifier. Listening to the Audeze LCD-2 at the moment.

It arrived just as I was halfway through dinner and just as my wife arrived home, and so I stared at the box through dinner, then washed the dishes, walked little Fiona and finally was able to unbox and set up the amp. It was on my mind all afternoon waiting for UPS!

The sound I heard immediately was involving and vivid. This is certainly more detailed sounding than the CSP2+ that I have (with Type 1 beeswax caps and stepped attenuator). At the moment a bit brighter as well, but I believe that will not last long. Soundstage is wider and as Trip mentions in a post started today about these preamps there are "layers" to the sound that are very discernible. Thes presentation is not entirely different from that of the Taboo Mk IV but different, a "bigger" sound, a crisper sound right now with comparable dynamics.

I'm going to enjoy listening to this preamp, no question! Later this week I'll connect it to the Monoblocks. . . .

LOL. I do plan on getting some "burn in" on the preamp with headphones, and a handle on "what it's doing" before putting it into the chain in front of the Monoblocks. And I have a few non-audio tasks to perform mid-week so perhaps I'll initiate that on Friday.

POWER CONDITIONER from DECWARE?

Also, just a heads up that I am working on a design for a power conditioner and I getting pretty stoked about it. It will have 6 independent fully balanced outlets fed by a large TOROIDAL transformer sized to handle most entire systems. With it we will eliminate ground loops and noise problems while getting you 100% de-coupled from the power grid. I'll keep you posted in the coming months when chassis and parts begin to roll in. Meanwhile if you are contemplating getting a power conditioner, by this Fall you will have a Decware offering to add to your list of choices.

-Steve

BonnyA,
I’m just glad you aren’t cursing my name here - pissed off that I steered you wrong.  

In all seriousness, when it comes to topics related to large expenditures, I am extra cautious about what I broadcast.  I would hate to influence anyone into betting on the wrong horse.  So, I am incredibly pleased that these Mundorf Mlytic caps lived up to your expectations.  And to piggy back on Steve’s comment about the ZMA’s normal temps not reaching 85C and therefore likely to sustain longer than 16,000 hours, when I estimate my yearly listening hours, it would be unlikely that these caps will need replacement any sooner than 10 years.  Maybe its 8, maybe its 12, regardless, I am happy to sacrifice longevity for ultimate sound quality.  But this may not be the case for others, so I don’t want to criticize anyone for choosing longevity first, as these retail for $500 a pair!  

I like that Mundorf is audio first, as this is an audio application and not a mission-critical laser, or robotic surgical apparatus, or Department of Defense super secret alien weapon technology.  They chose the construction and material for a reason and I don’t believe their reason was to create a shorter living cap.  I do believe their reason was to create a superior cap with regard to sound quality/performance.  At least that notion supports what I (and you) have experienced with the Mlytics in our beloved ZMAs.  

Steve,

Put me in that list for the power conditioner.

I have one currently and it's being refurbished.. and hunting for a new unit.

This is such a good timing..!!

Steve,
Would you consider adding a DC offset removal in the new power conditioner or building a stand alone one ? I have been looking for a DC offset built in power conditioner but could find none.
I found one or two amp manufactures that include DC offser removal directly in built in their power supply of their amplifiers. Maybe also some thing to consider to clean the power supply of the ZMA and other further. Would help minimizing transformer buzz as most grid power now a days has DC offset in their supply to a larger or smaller extent (also change with time of the day).

BonnyA