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Welcome to the forum!  The plans will be available on the web site once the web page is up and a professional set of plans is drawn.

Meanwhile, here is a PDF file of the plans I drew to give to a professional who can then draw the plans ; )


https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZF15Mplans.pdf


Steve

As mentioned I have started a solid Cherry pair of the ZF15M baffles...  

These I am making from some really old stock of cherry. It was pretty rough, some of it full of worm holes so it is taking some time to puzzle it together in a symmetrical way so that the pair match.




Notice how the board widths vary.  In this case it goes from about 2+ inches to over 10 inches.  What you don't want is boards that are all the exact same width... The more variance there is between the board sizes, the more re-distribution of energy there is throughout the baffle. It's important to keep energy continually moving - as in - changing locations. If it stalls and creates a standing pattern (wave) you will hear it, and that is bad.

I'm pretty sure plywood has this covered when you look at the variety of crap they sandwich between the top and bottom ply, so no reason to panic in the D.I.Y. camp if you plan build one yourself from plywood.

When you factor in what I just said, with the radius sides, AND the 15 inch cut-out for the driver, there is constant change via radius in the shape which also redistributes energy into a beautiful and benign pattern so completely different from a square board, it's really apples and oranges.  Or perhaps more like truffles and turds.

Steve

There is nothing quite like the precision of a router.  The crisp perfect edges really get me off!

As I get more into working with hardwoods, I have noticed that everything takes forever. Today I worked 7 hours straight in the shop and all that happened was getting both of the glued-up panels sanded, and one of the two completely cut out. You tend to think that that's pitiful... but here's the deal...

The solid hardwood thing that you made well, as best you could, will last for 500 years. If it's well taken care of it will last for over 1000 years. This is of course assuming it isn't ugly and doesn't suck. In that case it won't last because someone will burn it. So lets assume it's beautiful and no-one wants to through it away, and it lasts for 500 years... how long it took you to make it is insignificant.  Here's why:

Took you 32 hours to make it.

500 years is 4,380,000 hours. That means that the time it took it build it was 0.0000073% of the time that it actually lasted.

-Steve

Too bad the drivers would be dust by then.  So, is the Decware Lifetime Warranty in effect for all that time?  

Steve, minor typo on the plans, I think the 12 3/8" should read 15 3/8".

Having built my baffles out of BB that has regular strips of about 2 inches, I naturally take exception to the proposition that random sized boards are needed.  This might make sense if different woods are used, hence, different densities, but I can't see why give the same wood, widths of the strips matter.

I see that you have some sapwood at the edges.  When confronted with cherry I often stain first to pull the color together.  Otherwise it can look a bit like a zebra.  Linseed on cherry is a true thing of beauty!  An alkaline wash will darken the cherry and make it look 200 hundred years old.  It's the same effect as when you are pouring concrete near a redwood deck and you step on the deck and leave a dark footprint due to the alkaline staining of the RW.  (Just a few random thoughts.)

Steve, that Cherry looks, well, uhm, absolutely “Cherry”. Beautiful, beautiful pieces there! Just wow.

here is the link to the web page:  https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html

Steve

I posted one earlier in the thread (could also be in the Palomino Audio Project thread) but I don’t think it conveys how good these speakers are.  

To elaborate a bit, I have speakers that play lower and extend higher that are simply not as fun to listen to.  One key measurement though that I do think makes this driver so listenable is the lack of rising response rate in the 2500hz to 4000hz range which plagues many single drivers.  Then you add the efficiency to the equation and the sound you can get with one of Steve’s Amps and only two watts is amazing.  Just my $.02.

Hey Steve (or anybody else who has tried mounting the Lii Audio drivers both ways),

I'm wondering if you hear a difference in the sound when mounting from the front, like a traditional Betsy, as opposed to mounting at the rear with the front of the baffle rounded over, like the ZF15M.

Thanks,
Randy

Here is the page for the ZC10M, now online.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS3.html




Steve  :)

Here is a video recording of the model ZF15M before it leaves the Decware listening room for it's new home.  It is two songs recorded live from the listening chair.  [smiley=10.gif]

https://decware.wistia.com/medias/bzgplwck0s

Steve

I'll give my 2 cents.  Right off the bat, the ZROCK2 is 1K and the CR10s are $600 more than the F15s at a minimum.  (Cost only)  Give a little room for a business to make money and you're there.  The difference in wood isn't where the real costs are.  Labor to fabricate would be about the same.

Thanks,

If you choose the lindseed oil finish is that something you have to re-apply periodically?

Since I got one right, I'll try another.  

Linseed oil can be a lifetime finish but the beauty of it is that additional thin coats can be applied which will further enhance the finish over time.

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The price of the ZROCK would be deducted from the final invoice.

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Yes, that's it!  On real speakers, with real amplifiers, there is no finer sounding piano to my ears.  Thanks for link!!!  Enjoying the shit out it right now.

Steve

Thanks for the feedback. I made a cardboard cutout of the big Betsy and it would fit in my listening room but it wouldn’t leave much room to adjust position if need be so I’m thinking of the ZC10M.

The hardest part is picking the woods. I’m thinking the Paduke with curly cherry in the middle. But that one Steve made with the all cherry, they look like they will be gorgeous.

Paul,

For what it's worth, now being able to toss around the three different models in my listening room, I have noticed that the big ones are the most forgiving. So far I haven't found a bad place in the room as insane as that sounds, and I mean extremes, from wide on the side walls, to narrow in the middle, and closer to walls, vs. farther away and really can't kill it. So I wouldn't be afraid of that, in fact it seems to be working the opposite. Once some daring soles with smaller rooms decide to try it, and have good results, we'll all feel better about how to handle the physical size to room ratio thing.

Steve

UPDATE

This is a followup on past posts that I've made comparing the ZF15L (Big Betsy) and the ZC10M (Crystal 10 baffle).

Taking the opportunity to spend a solid month with the in-development ZF15M D.I.Y. version, gave me some time away from the two main players.  That always makes coming back to two main players a fresh experience.  

First I hooked up the ZF15L wondering if I would hear any difference between it and the ZF15M that is just a slightly smaller version of it.  I pressed play and immediately caught the difference.  It sounded bigger, had better frequency balance, and images better.  Just a nicer texture to it.

So I listened to those for 24 hours, and then tonight I hooked up the ZC10M baffles with the ZROCK2, wondering if I would like it as much, because the ZF15L is just so over the top good, that anything that might be directly compared to it is in danger of extreme humiliation.

I dialed in the ZROCK2, a very precise and careful adjustment, pressed play, and just went WOW...  it's so different, and so exquisitely refined with the melt my face midrange most people never hear that I knew right away, hey, this is actually better!

I continually like to put myself into the hypothetical scenario where I would actually have to choose one and then never see the other one again.  The fact that all these months later I still can't do it, means it can't be done.  I HAVE TO HAVE both.  One is my coffee, and one is my tea.

My only regret is that during DECFEST no-one got to hear the ZC10M (Crystal 10 baffles) sound the way I am hearing them now, and that's because you have to know exactly what you're doing with the ZROCK2 to adjust it for speaker equalization.  During the fest people were unable to do that, in part because it was located in a different room making it harder to hear your adjustments.  Basically it was miss-adjusted during the entire fest and constantly changed from one miss-adjustment to the next.

In any case, I am very happy with both designs, I consider them equally successful and feel the ZC10M being two grand more expensive is worth the extra money to the holy grail hunters that can afford it.  

In another week or so, I'll have the solid cherry pair of ZF15M's done and am anxious to hear how the sound changes over the DIY plywood pair.  The DIY plywood pair have a more pronounced mid bass note than the larger ZF15L and I am curious to see if I detect that in the Cherry pair.  If I do, then the cause is the distance from the driver to the floor.  If I don't detect it, then it means the hardwood has more high frequency extension which balanced out the stronger mid-bass.  This is something I need to know for sure before I launch it as a product.

So that's the update, now back to listening... and God bless the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode amplifier, on either of these speakers it is so incredible I have little hope of ever hearing anything better in this lifetime... the chase is over. The starship has been built. Time to explore the universe which is actually itself, sound.

Happy listening.

Steve

How much experimenting has everyone done with toe in? How much are you using?

Thanks Pal. Mine aren’t toed in that much. How far away is your listening chair?

Pal, I got my Lii bass drivers today. They have 2 sets of speaker connections each. How do I need to connect them? They came with one set of connections open and the other set has a small wire run from negative to positive. Both drivers came like this.

Here is a link.
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374200-Dual-Voice-Coil-DVC-Wiri...

Shows the results in resistance.

BTW when I first read Steve’s comments about wanting to have both the F15 and crystal 10 based OBs I thought to myself “I’m screwed, he’s probably right.”  Well he was and now I am screwed but in a pretty good way other than my pocketbook.  I have and want both speakers.  

I do have to say that since the crystal 10s have come into their own I have less desire to switch back to the F15s.  

I am very interested I your finding Geno on the Lii 15” bass driver. It could be a way to get what I get from from the crystal 10/AE LO15 for a lot less scratch.

I am pricing out cherry wood to do a 30” X 36” X 1.5” baffle.

Got the rest of the Cherry today, another 20 BF.  So I started making the boards for the bases tonight.

Steve