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Steve's BIG BETSY Project (Read 189681 times)
rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1000 - 11/07/19 at 15:50:58
 
Hello, this is my first post here,
but I have already learnt a lot from these pages and I would like to thank you, Steve, Palomino, Geno and others.
I started this spring with open baffle. I made plywood frames and added panels made from cardboard, this way changes are easy. My first widebanders were the 6.5 Alnicos I borrowed from my Omegas. Bass is the ubiquitous 15A, driven by 2 Rythmik plate amps from an abandoned project. Even the first attempt was a great success, the Omegas were formidable performers in the baffles and bested the ultraexpensive vintage Altec 755 in a contest.
Then the Crystals replaced the Omegas, and this was and still is a game changer: I have had Planars, Logan CLS and Monolith, and still own Edgarhorns, I have heard Siemens, Western 15 in Germany, but never in my life I have heard something like this:
High speed and low distorsion is hard to believe, and I have just 2 Watts as well. 2nd best now are my Omegas, fantastic speakers, but a bit pricey, especially when you have a look at the tiny chassis with their mini magnet.
Next steps will be tuning the room, finding the final baffle and probably replace the bass, keen to hear Geno's findings!
I have already made barrel baffles according to Geno's with just the Crystals in it. I have learnt a lot from these and would like to share this in my next post, I have yet to find out how to post pictures!
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1001 - 11/07/19 at 16:05:55
 
Welcome rolls and thanks for sharing.  Always wondered about Omegas in an OB configuration.
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rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1002 - 11/07/19 at 16:13:56
 
Here is the first baffle, 15A and Omega
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IMG_1497.jpg
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rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1003 - 11/07/19 at 16:16:10
 
15A and Crystal:
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IMG_1526.jpeg
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rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1004 - 11/07/19 at 16:24:01
 
Geno's barrels made from SWAP (cardboard, very light, extremely stiff) as well.
Geno's size is brilliant! I am going to tell you why, I think he has not done it yet.
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IMG_1661.jpeg
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1005 - 11/07/19 at 16:28:43
 


Here is a sketch of what I am going to do in cherry.  For some reason the dimensions didn't come through.  36 X 30 X 1.5".
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rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1006 - 11/07/19 at 17:11:58
 
Your's are bigger than Geno's, and I have learnt the lesson from him and Randy:
When we evaluated my rectangular 1m (39") tall baffles, I noticed that my visitors did not take a seat for most of the time. In the evening I found out, that the sound stage is really much bigger, wider, when I was standing, so it dawned on me and I reread Randys remarks about baffle size:
"The low profile allows the speakers a holographic sound stage that floats above the baffles."
When I sit, my ears are about 80cm above the floor, and the stage floats above
1m, just above my head! Then I made Geno's barrels, which are 82cm high,
to verify barrel size and height:
there is a huge stage streaming to you, the waves are not blocked by the baffles any more, so if you are really into stage and image, there is no alternative.
I was so impressed, that I modified my rectangular baffle.
I have also learnt, that the barrel shape gives a slightly wider stage than the rectangle, but the height is more important.
So everybody can do the test, if there is lots of space behind the baffle or many diffusors.
You can see my lowered baffle, the frame is still the same. Even in Geno's baffles there is no problem to fit a 15" and the Crystal.
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IMG_1673.jpeg
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rolls
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1007 - 11/07/19 at 17:25:20
 
Palomino
your baffles look really beautiful, they have a more modern, low fat look.
I think I will do something similar, in Cherry or Maple.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1008 - 11/07/19 at 17:28:12
 
Welcome Rolls. Randy gets the credit for the design - not me. All I did was scale his up to the largest size that I thought my room would accommodate. I did realize that the driver needed to be kept fairly low to the floor to help with the bass, but, like i said, the credit goes to Randy. And, of course, Steve too for deciding to try and make them bigger and thicker. I'm glad you are experimenting with different sizes and shapes, and that you have found one that works for you.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1009 - 11/07/19 at 17:29:55
 
Geno, have you come up with your design for the baffle with the Lii Audio 15" bass drivers?
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1010 - 11/07/19 at 17:43:00
 
Hi Pal. For the time being, I've just replaced the drivers in the baffles I got from Randy, with the new Lii 12" bass drivers. I'm still experimenting with how to best connect them. At present, I'm driving them with a Dayton 100W plate amp, but plan to follow your lead, and get a Crown very soon. I'll need a little more power. Thanks for your help with this.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1011 - 11/07/19 at 17:47:31
 
Sorry, I thought they were 15".  

I think there are good plate amps out there but the crown is pretty good, offers a fair amount of flexibility, is stereo, and doesn't cost that much.

Did you get an efficiency rating on the Lii 12"?  I think last time I asked you did not know.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1012 - 11/07/19 at 17:58:59
 
BTW, if you guys are interested in a guaranteed wrap around your head soundstage song, try this:

https://tidal.com/browse/track/67329600

Not my favorite track by any means but sections of the the song loop around behind your head.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1013 - 11/07/19 at 18:02:58
 
They told me 92db, but were double checking to make sure. Have not heard back from them.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1014 - 11/07/19 at 18:41:05
 
I think you will need some horsepower to keep up with the Crystals.  

I have not tried the AEs without the crown yet.  Wondering is wiring the voice coils differently would have much impact.  I just don't know much about the subject.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1015 - 11/08/19 at 13:00:27
 
Here are a few photos of the new Lii Audio 12” bass drivers. I took the drivers out of the bass baffles I got from Randy, and put the new ones in. Powered by a simple 100W Dayton plate amp (run in mono) the combo sounds pretty damn good. I may not need to do anything different. There is something special about having the mid-bass in its own baffle.
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F3D337D2-2ED7-43DB-A885-701E689650E5.jpeg

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1016 - 11/08/19 at 13:02:27
 
Another
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1017 - 11/08/19 at 13:03:43
 
The back
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1018 - 11/08/19 at 13:42:48
 
They sure look like the AE drivers.  Basket, magnet, cone, etc
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Geno
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1019 - 11/08/19 at 15:22:20
 
They say that the magnet design is different, but it looks like they will need to make a few changes, unless they want to get in trouble with AE Shocked

They are 93 dB, by the way.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1020 - 11/09/19 at 14:31:57
 
Still loving my BB's made from 2 layers of 3/4" MDF, widest sound stage ever.  I'm now starting the hardwood version.  It will be prettier than the MDF and will hopefully sound even better.  Using 1.5" birch butcher block from Home Depot.








One question for Steve:  Did you glue the base and front feet on, or they just held in place by the lag bolts?  What size lag bolts did you use?

Thanks

Dan
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1021 - 11/09/19 at 16:53:13
 

Used 3) 4 inch lag bolts only.

Steve

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1022 - 11/09/19 at 17:08:44
 
Dank,

Will you cut two out of that one piece?  It doesn't look long enough.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1023 - 11/09/19 at 22:03:22
 
Inspired by Geno, I put grills over my F15s.  They don't seem quite so exposed and vulnerable now.  Here's the link to the ebay seller I used:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/x2-15-Inch-Speaker-Grill-CHROME-Grills-Sub-Woofer-Bar-G...

I think they are a good look and very worthwhile.

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IMG_2767a.jpg

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dank
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1024 - 11/09/19 at 22:14:29
 
The main piece of butcher block was cut in half (37" high each), then I took a 5" strip off the side and glued it onto the bottom, using biscuits.  This produced two pieces 42 x 34:





A smaller piece was bought just for the base.  That was cut up and is awaiting gluing.




(There is an extra piece of scrap in the last picture...I may throw it or add it to the top of the base but will not put it where it is in the picture.)



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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1025 - 11/09/19 at 22:52:27
 
Well, you certainly used it all!

I think I have that same router.   Smiley
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1026 - 11/10/19 at 03:25:43
 
Archie,
I like the appearance of the chrome grills against your black baffles.

Brian
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1027 - 11/10/19 at 16:12:40
 
Adam, the chrome looks great! I went back and forth trying to decide which color to get. You made the right choice. Looks good against the black Smiley
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1028 - 11/10/19 at 17:53:05
 
Thanks guys.  I went back and forth on the chrome.  I was afraid it'd look cheesy. I have more peace of mind now.  I have a young cat and I've been nervous he'd get curious.   Cry
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1029 - 11/10/19 at 21:02:50
 
Cutting the arc:



Cutting the speaker hole:


That should be enough saw dust for a while.


Dan
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1030 - 11/10/19 at 21:42:06
 
Dan, I see you cut through one of your biscuits.  Doh!  He, he, I did the same on my baffles.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1031 - 11/11/19 at 02:40:42
 



Finally got a little time to work on these cherry baffles. The way I make the bases takes me nearly as long as the baffles themselves. I have the baffles sanded and the first coat of oil on both sides. Still have a lot of work on the bases.


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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1032 - 11/11/19 at 03:00:48
 
I predict they will be gorgeous.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1033 - 11/11/19 at 05:23:22
 
Archie,

I am looking at your picture and I see a bottle of discwasher on the cupboard and a pot belly stove.

Feels like I stepped into a time machine!!
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1034 - 11/11/19 at 16:01:47
 
LOL!  Yeah, I live a bit more in the past here.  BTW, the Disc Washer fluid is a concoction of Photo Pro and distilled water.  The fan is a deionizer (an idea that gratefully came from Jeff of Arabica) so dust isn't much of an issue.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1035 - 11/11/19 at 18:13:58
 
A deionizer eh?  What brand?  I’m in serious need of something like that!  I can dust, and 5 minutes later it’s dusty again  ::)
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1036 - 11/12/19 at 00:10:53
 
This is what I got.  I was extremely lucky and paid only about $70 delivered for a brand new one.  They are very expensive generally.  This one is the cheapest on ebay right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Desco-Ionizer-Model-No-60505/153446270565?epid=14016223...
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ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1037 - 11/12/19 at 00:48:46
 
Geno, I use these for cleaning our home air. Pretty silent unless the pins need brushing off, and lots of negative ions. No fans! They collect all the various air particles on the metal pipe part which I clean off every 2-4 weeks here. Might be worth checking out.

https://www.wellbots.com/products/lifeair-ionflow-evolution-air-purifiers
https://www.wellbots.com/products/lifeair-ionflow-signature-air-purifier
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1038 - 11/12/19 at 12:12:56
 
Thanks guys!
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1039 - 11/12/19 at 13:59:55
 
Geno...  I use the IQ Air HEPA air filter.  They work phenomenal.   If you are looking for a low cost option, this is NOT it.  I configured mine with the prefilter option, which helps extend the life of the HEPA filter. When my prefilter gets a nice layer of dust on it, I will just peel the dust layer off and throw it out.

Here is a link to the website....

https://www.iqair.com/us/support/tech-specs/healthpro-series

I have the Health Pro Plus... which adds a V5 gas filter comprised of activated Carbon and Aluminum to help  neutralize some toxic chemicals.  If you walk into my house you can actually smells different.  Take a look at entire line to see what fits your needs.  The company makes one for use in medical facilities, so the are truly a work horse.  

A long time ago I used to have a product similar to what Will recommended and it worked great.  When I was looking to upgrade, and started to do a lot of reading, I found that a lot of ionizers give off some Ozone as a byproduct.  That made me a bit uneasy, so I went a different route.  If you go the ionizer route.... look to see if they give off Ozone because some give off none, and others may give off a good amount.  I just looked at Will’s product, and it gives off next to  ZERO....so that would be one to purchase.  There is debate on whether a little Ozone is harmless, but that’s for a different topic.  Hope this helps.

Dom



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Geno
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1040 - 11/12/19 at 14:54:16
 
Cool! Thanks, Dom!
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1041 - 11/12/19 at 16:11:06
 
Dom, that's a pretty slick unit.  My FA system probably takes out half the dust and just moves the rest around the house!

The beauty of the deionizer is that it takes the charge out of the lp and dust cover so they aren't dust magnets for whatever is still around.  I can actually blow dust particles off of a record's surface with mine running.  It takes only seconds to deionize when up close.  I run mine only when flipping and changing records. Otherwise, the fan noise can be a distraction.
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Dominick
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Still like that old
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1042 - 11/13/19 at 05:49:54
 
Archie..... yes the deionizers are definitely the way to go since they are ALOT quieter than my IQ air unit.  I do like that the deionizer takes the charge off the dust and allows your to blow the particles off the LP’s.

I normally run them at like speed 2 or 3 throughout the day if I am not listening to music.  When I have music playing… I will bring it down to level 1 OR 0 if it’s critical listening.   At the highest level,  I only use when I am not home since they basically act as wind tunnels and are definitely very loud.  



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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1043 - 11/14/19 at 02:41:49
 

I have one almost done.  Just need to find where I hid my handles and get a few more bolts... it's always the little things that lengthen the project.






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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1044 - 11/14/19 at 02:49:59
 



The trademark is burned into the wood.








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Brian
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1045 - 11/14/19 at 03:11:49
 
Hi Steve,
The cherry wood finished up really nicely, very smooth. I very much like the color.

Brian
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ScottNC
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1046 - 11/14/19 at 03:24:12
 
Wow...nice
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1047 - 11/14/19 at 15:12:31
 
Steve,

That is a work of art - just gorgeous.

Ken
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Dominick
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Still like that old
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1048 - 11/14/19 at 17:45:16
 
Steve..... wow!!  Talk about a work of art!!  Love the logo burned into the wood!!
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1049 - 11/14/19 at 22:10:30
 
Love the character the worm holes impart.
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