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Hello there I thought i would post some of my thoughts on the new 25th annviersy amp.  I got it the beginning of August this year and once I put it in it never left.  I stream spotify from my laptop to the decware zdsd dac into the zrock and then into the amp to my Omega ALnico HO towers.

I have the CSP3 preamp but after sometime I just unhooked as I did not feel it needed it.  Maybe someday i will get the mod for it but not in the cards anytime soon.  

The clarity and power that i get form only two watts blew my mind.  I had the torii MKIV for years as my main amp and somehow the this new amp made that amp sound slow which is weird but before i never felt it was slow.  I think its just a different amp flavor.  The bass is great out of this amp though having the zrock2 definitely helps alot for streaming spotify.  I dont have any room treatments but when I pull out my speakers from the wall i almost get a 3d sound that i never got before.  I could image if I did room treatments.  Form top to bottom the sound is just clear and tight.

The side benefit is I can run this all day during the summer hot days unlike the torii MKIV in middle of summer it was just too hot to use in my small office lol, though winters it was perfect haha.

Anyways this amp just rocks!  friends are still amazed wwhen they come over to listen and then telling them its just too watts

sorry for the rambling but just wanted to mention how much i am enjoying this amp.

Just put a Telefunken PCC189 in my UFO25 and in the CSP3 a Valvo D getter PCC88 in the driver position.  This puts a whole new meaning to soundstage depth and 3D.  The music and vocals are so detailed and dynamic, alive and yet like velvet or at times majestic.

JazztoGo, rather than apologizing needlessly for the "rambling," thanks go to you for sharing your impressions and keep them coming. These amps give us a lot to "chew on" and write about.

Joman,  I had to chuckle when I saw your "holodeck" comment. Haven't heard that term for quite some time (Nor, watched Startrek for that matter).
But, I do agree with your comments on tubes and the amazing sound of this UFO25! In fact I just sat down after several hours submersed on the holodeck.....insert "smile" here!

Hello everyone.  :)

This is my first post and my first night running the SE84UFO25. I figure I would keep up the trend with first impressions. I was using a Rachel and thought I was somewhat familiar with Decware sound (or is that non-sound). Still cold the UFO exhibited a very coherent musical picture. No bloat that accompanies some tube amps but of course not Decware. My speakers are about 105DB efficient so I was not really worried about not having enough power.

An aside - I was considering ordering a second UFO25 without having heard the first during the Black Friday sale but... I knew I would have the needed power. Who knows maybe next Black Friday  ;)

Back to first impressions. As I continued to listen, the amp loosened up a bit. Imaging seemed to get more solid. About 2 hours in and all of a sudden bass became audibly more deep. full and articulate. A very pleasant and unexpected surprise. I was looking to hear extra finesse and heard a nice improvement in the nether regions. This is actually one of my systems strong suits so that was really nice.

I listened about another hour with familiar music and it sounded very nice. A very solid soundstage with great front to back imaging. Very Musical. The amp is real pretty with those glowing tubes and the build quality is of course beyond reproach. Thanks Steve. I am excited to hear how things change as it breaks in .

I'll post some system photos soon but my wife has made me put equipment on the TV stand to make room for the Christmas tree. I used to have a dedicated sound room but last year I was told to put in a TV. Now I have to accommodate a tree. Thank God I have great music to keep me on the straight and narrow.  ;D

Hi Lon and all. I have read that SE84UFO25 will keep sounding better and better. What I am hearing now is a great place to begin already. I had been eyeing Decware for years and when I got the super efficient speakers I knew now was the time.

My source is the Phasure NOS G3 DAC and its accompanying computer; the MACH III both connected with very interesting cabling that gives you the ability to float the cable ground with many possible combinations.  XXhighend playback software (also designed by Peter S. of Phasure) is on the computer and music resides on a file server that also controls MACH III. Music files are loaded into RAM and sent to the NOS G3 DAC. XXhighend.nl

Honestly it is so good that I left vinyl. I am considering Reel to Reel but my hobby now consists of listening to music and I like it that way. My system is quite resolving and even with a nights listening I can tell the SE84UFO is a fantastic amp. I'll try to get some photos up there soon.

Fmanheck,

My SE84UFO25 is on the build list.
I run Avantgarde Duo Omega horns.
What is the impedance of your horn set up?

Tonight I had friends over for a listening session. As the 25th Anniversary Zen has been breaking in, it has getting more and open and relaxed. Detail retrieval is just phenomenal. Not because of quantity (of which there is plenty) but because of the absolutely natural and musical way it is woven into the soundstage presentation. The amp is magical.

The only concern I have been having is I think I have a need for more power. Not in most cases, but there are times when I listen louder than normal to music with substantial bass output and very strong dynamics. In these cases the amp seems to loose liquidity and becomes a bit opaque.

One of my friends brought over a First Watt SIT-3. This is about 18wpc solid state Class A Single Ended amp with no feedback. Created by Nelson Pass it is probably in the top tier of best SS amps made. I have heard it in my friend's system and it sounds great. It is a great amp.

I was excited to hear how more power added to my system would sound. I switched out the Decware and put  in the SIT-3 amp in. The difference was shocking. Now there was plenty of power you could tell this amp drove the speakers easily. Bass was more powerful and  pronounced at higher volumes.

Folks there is no going back. Despite the higher power it was immediately noticeable how the magic was no longer there. It just did not sound real anymore. I think you would need the SE84UFO25 to hear this type of staggering difference. The First Watt is a very good amp by most any standard but once you hear UFO25 there is no going back. This was a unanimous opinion for all of us, even my friend who left a bit saddened.

So I will be talking with Steve soon about ordering another SE84UFO25. I guess I should have gone for it back in November.
2 SE84UFO25 = Twice the magic.

it's been several months since I've weighed in on my SE84UFO25. But, I have a good excuse. "I've been sucked into the vortex of beautiful music it provides and, have not made any adjustments (tube rolling etc.) for several months as well." I'm so happy I made this purchase....LP's, CD's it doesn't matter...it's all awesome! It took approx 250 to 300 hrs burn in for the UFO25 to hit it's stride and sonic consistency. Having a dedicated (acoustically treated) listening room does help as well. So, I used to read at least 15 hrs a week....that time has been replaced with longer listening sessions filled with music I am well acquainted with, as well as a lot of new music. This amp has me expanding my musical tastes and enjoying the ride immensely!! Gotta go listen now.

Great news John! At last! Your journey begins. In 300 hours or so of listening you'll be just floored!

Yes, we're both lucky in that we can get hours on our equipment pretty quickly. I've left mine on for 72 hours or more before, with signal one through . . . never had an issue.

UPS bailed on me. . . after waiting all day to be here to sign for the package they sent me a "delayed" message at 4 p.m. Sheesh. I don't know if I can be here all tomorrow, hope I can be here when it comes. UPS is never my first choice of shipper.

Quote:



"So, I used to read at least 15 hrs a week....that time has been replaced with longer listening sessions filled with music I am well acquainted with, as well as a lot of new music"

I think that pretty much nails it don't you?

Steve

I'm listening right now as I work from an adjacent room.   The stereo is always on and streaming either Jazz24 or a Classical station out of Portland that I like.  I keep the volume low enough to be able to answer calls without distraction.   The sound has always been lacking in this type situation,..  other room/low volume,..  as one would expect,  just not a lot of life to it,..    However with the 25th, the low level volume is just plain alive,  it's amazing how much better it sounds at a low level compared to my other amps,  and this on a 96kbs stream!  Just stunning,...     I left the amp playing all night.  At this point it has been on approx. 24hrs straight  and has really smoothed out ALOT in that time period!

Wonderful that you are already experiencing all of this, the extra hours Steve put on it are paying off.

It will get better. After 300 hours or so I was surprised to find a new level, and don't hesitate to experiment with any "gain riding" you can.

Hey Guys,

Would love to hear if you are listening to the amp with a pre-amp or not? Also would like to know if it is mostly digital or analog listening (sources etc. if they aren't in your profile). I'd love to get as many details as possible so when I do pull the trigger I've got plenty of ammunition. I've been listening to a LTA ultralinear amp lately and love it but might have to pick one of these up as well. I'd like to keep and upgrade my csp2+ to the 25th anniversary mods and not have to purchase another preamp if possible.
Thanks in advance.

JD

I also have a question about what to expect from the amp during seasoning.  

Soundstage size and sort of a contextual soundstage mapping are the only things I have not heard in my amp that I heard at the Fest if that makes any sense.

I was able to work at home yesterday and I felt like it is beginning to open up more and got a taste of this contextual mapping that I heard in E. Peoria.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Than Lon.  I have moved off the 5 hours at a shot breakin and now I'm listening however long I want.  I have a three day weekend so I'll be spending some time listening.

I do know the longer its on, the better it sounds.

Pal,
Have you tried adjusting your speaker positions with the new 25th amp?

Hey Pal,  

 I can say that my speaker position moved considerably once I really got a feel for the 25th-A and it had some hours on it.   I'm currently running with about 200hr's on the amp but I found that at around ~80 hrs the speaker adjustments were warranted and easily dialed-in.   Once adjusted everything locked into place again with the added benefit and sonic improvement that the 25th def. brings!

Hey Pal,

Sounds fun. I am agreeing with thoughts on burnin and speaker placement. This amp sounds tricky, being so good in design and parts choices to begin with, it sounds like it is extra good "out of the box." By all reports, with reduced smearing, masking, congestion...and related, enhanced balance, space, speed, clarity, transparency, etc...sounds like Steve's best effort to date. But it still uses new parts, many similar to other Decware amps. So no matter how good the sound is new, the parts will get notably better!

Looking at effects pre-burnin...rigidity, subtle distortions, thickness, congestion, we wait for faster and deeper articulation and spacious complexity. Related, I think there is an additional balancing act between increased density, and fine detail and spacial information that can resolve with burnin. Anecdotally, as I carefully increased speed and density in my amps, while attempting to hold spectral balance, all aspects seem interrelated, creating balancing acts. A slightly fuller, note-centric density, could off-balance fine detail and ambient information. Though the fine detail and space were there, if density was a bit strong, or tending toward thickish, it sounded like the denser attributes could dominate, and also bleed into the spacial areas of the presentation, negatively effecting ambient/harmonic information that can contribute to better soundstage. In effect, like rigidity pre-burnin, if a change was compelling enough to "ride it out," I found subtle speaker adjustments could adjust spacial information, and soundstage width and depth.

So even starting off as good as the 25th, relatively, the usual new parts rigidity, smearing, distortions, congestion are there... And as parts refine, the signal becomes less damaged, more complete, more complex, rigidity resolving into more fine detail and spaciousness. Another similarity in my explorations, one day I took out all the very small bypass caps from my Torii seeking an optimal foundation from combinations of 0.1 power supply bypasses mainly. Though in this case the 0.1s were all burned in, once sorted out, by bypassing the 0.1s with (the right) 0.022s, and 0.01s or 0.0047s, bypassing the bypasses increased speed, space and complexity notably. Density remained (or increased), but with more complexity and space, soundstage depth, width and saturation got better.

Burnin refinement seems very similar to me. As the parts wake up, especially after ±300 hours, ups and downs mostly resolved, the parts becoming more supple, we hear more. Finer information coming with more space for the notes to rise and fall more clearly from, speed and spacial information are enhanced, enhancing the soundstage. This is how it sounds to me at this point of my listening anyway.

So I am agreeing with burnin thoughts folks have made. Also, to best utilize a given state of sound, checking speaker placement periodically along the way, adjusting the room and system interactions, and therefore the soundstage.

Nice! It is amazing how system/rooms are sort of living things...each part contributing to and changing the whole. I bet your amp is going to get a fair bit of play this weekend! Exciting!

After reading about people using speakers of various sensitivity levels I decided to try the lowest efficiency speakers I have - some Silverline Minuets rated at 88db.

With the DAC at 0db and the zibit at 2:00 and the 25th pegged I was able to achieve a very acceptable listening level without clipping.  I did use the high bias setting but with more adjustment the low setting could be used as well.  

My room is 12.5 X 16.5 so not big.

I turned on the Crowns and ran the subs to fill in the low end but it was actually pleasant listening without them on.  The minuets are mini monitors with only a 3.5” woofer.  

My iPhone was measuring low 80s. Not that reliable, but still.

Interesting.

I wouldn’t necessarily recommend people with 88db speakers pair them with the 25th but this little experiment gives you an idea of the amp’s range.

The sound breaks up and has a static sound.  On the 25th you can see it visually on the meters and the power regulation tubes in the back flicker a little.   With my OBs I really have to crank it up to get it to clip.  But they are around 94db efficient.

On my Zu's  (and I really have to push it),..  I notice that the low end (~30-80hz) starts to become fuzzy first.   This is especially noticeable on Acoustic / folk (or other) type music where clear separation of the instruments excels and there is a prominent bass/low end.   I can start to hear this degradation at the onset of the rear Rgs. just starting to move/fluctuate in brightness,  the meters are moving +/- 2ma (4ma swing).   In more congested/dense type recordings/mastering's,  it is somewhat masked and less noticeable at the onset of clipping. The upper end (shimmer/shine) where the 'space' of everything seems to come into play is the 2nd to collapse,  at this point the rear Regs,  would be relatively noticibly starting to fluctuate in brightness and honestly the it isn't worth listening to at this point.
  Still amazes me though just how loud and dense this little 2.8/w amp is!  I never really ever come close to clipping during normal listening,  but ~98db sens. speakers will get ya that  :)