Alright!  Be sure to let us know your impressions.

Likewise I had started out with three, but by the time my Toriis hit the house I'd moved to four. . . .

Cool!

I think for me they work best as close to the four corners as I can get them.

That's interesting, I played with the front ones all night, and settled on having them right under the front power tubes! Then I came on and saw your post, freaky!!!!

The rear ones are more subtle. I started with them near the corners, and now have them under the rear outward corner of the transformers.

Interesting. I have tried those locations and I get the widest, cleanest sound at the corners (but inside a bit as I can't quite get them right on the corners). I think it's quite true that the environment of the amp is an influence. I have mine on top a 4" maple platform! On the top shelf of a Mapleshade Samson rack.

Fun to play around with these.

The ZStand is doing all the heavy lifting Greg, so the Iso Cups work wherever they are. There. See how easy it is to explain?

Lon, LOL, I love that explanation! So, my IsoCups are are just cognitive decor. I am good with that.

Speaking of the racks, I just ordered a short ZRACK at 32 inches to complement my two taller ones. I plan to put it in the middle, and have it hold some of the smaller components that are pushing the capacity limits of the taller racks. [orangecrush, I have no doubt your stands are great, but my post and, I suspect, Lon's reply, were written with some humor.]

I got the humor

I do think though, that a good stand lessons the impact of the Isocups.

Lon, if you have posted it elsewhere, regrets for missing it, but what vinyl rig are you getting?

It also occurred to me that, since I already have Herbie's UltraSonic Rx and HAL-O III tube dampers installed, I could easily be past my point of discernible diminishing returns.

Greg, with the Iso Cups, the ZStand, the Herbie tube dampers. . .you're covered!

I didn't mention it actually. Last month a friend asked me to get him back in the vinyl game. He gave me a reasonable budget and I did some research, found some great gear, and I got him set up over the last few weeks. And it sounds damned good. So I decided to do the same for myself: a Rega RP3 with Elys cartridge and TT PSU, and a PS Audio GCPH preamp. I've got the stuff on order and it will start trickling in. Took all my LPS (about 500) out of spare room storage and got them out in the living room and dining room ready to roll. Looking forward to it.

That's great!! A music lover like yourself deserves not to be limited by format, if possible. You'll still use and love your digital rig although I suspect that when the vinyl rig gets put together just the newness alone will have you ignore your other set up for awhile. But while I'm vinyl first I wouldn't give up the enjoyment, variety and simplicity that my digital rig, whether cd, sacd, or streaming, brings me.

Enjoy!

sberger wrote on 06/01/12 at 00:27:46:


Believe me I'll use my digital rig. I'm one of those weird guys who has an audio/visual system, and I'll be using the DVR and the Blu-ray player every day, as well as the Redbook and SACD, I know I will. But it will be fun to revisit my vinyl again, and buy some new as well.

Quote:


I am right with you orangecrush. Though I have used both the front and rear positions before, I think this is the first for the combination. I had to turn down the trebles a bit, and up the bass a hair, but I really like it!

Thanks for the tip!

When you gents say "transformers" Are you talking about the smallest transformers or the larger ones closest to the right and left sides? I've moved the front to where you have them and the rear to the larger transformers. Interesting. A bit "tarter." I don't have bass controls, so I generally tune to the best bass, and I'm not sure it's here. But I need things to settle a bit to be sure.

Thanks will. I had the back IsoCups under the furthest back transformers/chokes for a spell and though that was very spacious and dynamic, the bass suffered. The balance was too trebly, and "tart" seemed the right word.

I've now put the back ones about the same position as the ones on the front, in line with the back edge of the side transformers and about an inch and a half in from the edge, and yes, better bass, still very dynamic and spacious. My previous preferred positioning was actually with a different source and different cabling so it was time to experiment. With the IsoCups nearest the corners I get a very classic tube sound, rich and with bloom. Nice but this is a nice change.

I've changed my lampblack "balls" to the old acrylic ones. To my ears these are the most neutral and "quick" with the frosted clear bases.

Right will, some months back Herbie moved to the new black bases and new balls and he states these do NOT need the bases.

You can still buy the old material bases and balls though. Click on the "Misc." link under "Contact Us" on the black banner at the top of the home page. You can find the acrylic balls and the high-end base by clicking the "Products" link on the black banner on the home page.

As for acrylic versus lampblack, I first got a hint when I started with my "roller-bearing" isolation support for my ERRs. I used a 1.5 inch concave automotive freeze plug with one of the Herbie's balls on all corners. I first used the acrylic balls I had lying around, and ordered some more lampblack to try as well. I got a very open and clear sound with the acrylic balls, and a very neutral fast signature. When the lampblack balls came and were substituted there was a lessening of the openness and a tilt upwards in frequency. That led me to experiment with the acrylic and lampblack balls in the IsoCups. I came to the conclusion that with the frosted cups and high end bases, the acrylic had a touch more open and fast character, the lampblack a slight brightness. Bright is an enemy in my system. With older IsoCups that I have (clearer material, with a gray "neutralizing" layer at the bottom) I really couldn't discern a difference.* So I'd say the acrylic is a bit more neutral. I could be wrong about the "neutrality" but it does result in what I think is a more neutral sound.

*But these bases are a bit slower sounding overall. Sometimes a nice tool for the toolbox.

I ordered the lampblack balls and the clear frosted cups with high end bases simply because I read several people say its a killer combo. It seems the super sonic hardball gets mixed results in direct comparison.

Man, just reading at your display of well versed, first hand experience-based accessory discussions, makes me wonder guys. This is such a complex field, that it would probably take years just to start getting a handle on its ever-changing essentials (as the technology keeps pushing new alternatives to try, all the time).

Under this perspective, isn't it complicating matters exponentially when you also decide to go for both existing sourcing setups (digital & analog)?  I mean, shouldn't the goal be to specialize in one of these choices and excell at it?  Isn't the whole objective to achieve the best possible sound, and if so, wouldn't you say this objective would be better served by sticking to one sourcing platform and optimize its application?

Shouldn't one invest time and resources in a matter that maximizes the chances of getting as close as possible to that holly grail of sound?  Do you really need to divest yourself in the pursue of parallel paths, which are theoretically aimed at the same objective?

I guess the answer to this question is always going to be 'yes, if you're having fun at it.'  

From a philosophical point of view, I agree with Pale Rider's position:  Digital is the best approximation we know of today to portray what the natural sound of music is all about.  Imperfect as it is, IMHO is well ahead of the peculiar physical constraint inheritance of the pressings era.

But hey, don't pay any attention to me ...  I don't intend to be judgemental, just thinking out loud.  Have fun guys!  
 

Orangecrush, Definitely a killer combination. Acrylic balls can be used for a subtle difference that may not be worth it at all, it's all so system dependent.

Lon, just relax.  I'm not judging your decisions, I actually applaude your initiatives.  What I meant was that after seeing you discuss sound accessories' positioning (.. an inch here, a corner there ...) for, say, the isocups in your Torii, I felt like there was deep interest in great sound per se, also.

Maybe you're not even aware of it, but you are a perfectionist from what I've seen in your love for sound details, and that is fantastic if you get fun out of it.  Evidently, this does not seem to get in the way of exploring other music reproduction alternatives for you, as I can see.  My mistake.

On the other hand, I'm entitled to have an opinion and I just expressed it.  Peace, my friend.  :)

Lon wrote on 06/01/12 at 20:11:30:


Perfectly said from the non perfectionist.

Look it's like I alluded to the other day. Why limit yourself to only one medium when you can have as many as you want. Vinyl requires more effort(although not nearly as much as some would have you believe) for great sound than digital, but digital allows for simplicity and also allows for, although not as much required, playing around to get great sound. If you want to. I personally also like streaming from my Squeezebox Touch because it allows access to 40,000 + songs from my collection instantly. Also solves some storage issues which is helpful for SEF(spousal enjoyment factor...always comes back to that doesn't it?). The bottom line is that you can put together a system that gets you pretty damn close to perfection if you want to for all mediums. Or at least as close as you want. Not really that difficult.

The takeaway here is that there are some very cool, intelligent folks on this forum, and luckily for most of them it always comes back to the music.

Fireblade wrote on 06/01/12 at 22:07:58:


FB, I certainly wasn't upset. I just didn't want your assumption that I'm looking for perfect sound go unchallenged. Of course I'm interested in great sound, but that doesn't mean one has to be on a perfectionist's search.

Yes, I had fun moving IsoCups around today because I got to participate in this with a couple other audiophiles, it was fun, and it would be nice if I found a new positioning that would get the amp to favor the bulk of my recordings. Interestingly, I ended up with the IsoCups right back where they were beforehand, that's just what seems to work best with my material in my room. I wasn't looking for perfection as much as I was "homogeneity" --- a sound that I could listen to my worst and my best recordings within/through/with. A quest for homogeneity is hardly a quest for perfection!

I know my family members and I know what perfectionism is in this family. If I were to become an audio perfectionist I'd have my house up for sale and buy 30,000 dollars of dcs digital equipment, and/or a turntable a billionaire would own, and I'd hire Steve to spend a month just working for me building me my ultimate amplification and speaker set. Or be on some spiritual quest for the angels to talk to me through a headhone amp and headphones. I'm far away from Armstrong/Cassler family perfectionism. And intend to stay that way. It already cost me dearly in my youth, and my veering away was the best thing I've done.

I just couldn't disagree more with your statement, it's not my way. I can fully respect it as your way or anyone else's.

I've already set up a vinyl rig in my bedroom system, I have an old B&O turtable in there that needs some work, and my PS Audio GCPH arrived and is set up. I also got a homemade preamp that I got off audiogon in the mail today, it was a good delivery day, and so that is all warming up with the Torii Mk II, preliminary sound is really nice. Not the best listening room, but that's fun too. My pal Dave is coming over soon to check it out, we were over at his house yesterday listening to lps on the rig I set up for him, some Crusaders, Burning Spear, Vivaldi and as almost every time we get together, some Miles Davis. I expect by next week I'll have the Rega here and a few cables I ordered, and will set up in the main  system and do some serious exploratory vinyl listening! Looking forward to it. It's my kind of "work."

Wow that looks great. Keep us informed as to how the sound develops.

Lon and Will's posts have inspired me to get closer to the music and have it become part of my life again.

Yes, it's sort of unsettling how "everything matters" when you get to a certain level of fidelity. But when it's right, the benefit is really big for musical enjoyment.

FB, this preamp. . . well it's no CSP2 or CSP2+. . . I miss a certain tonality that those preamps impart, or lack of one. This one has not quite the bass depth that the Decwares do, nor is the treble as refined. Pretty good overall, and it could arguably be still breaking in. And I might be hearing the lack of tube rectification.