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DECWARE 300B Amp development thread (Read 147551 times)
JBzen
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #650 - 11/25/22 at 15:45:47
 
Quote:
This year the motorhome needed a transfer switch replaced. The one it replaced was over 20 years old. There is a timing relay in these devices so when generator power is initiated the transfer switch holds the generators feed 7 seconds for motor stability before applying a load. That part of the failed switch still worked flawlessly. The transfer relay it what failed. The coil of that relay to be more precise opened up.

I replaced the transfer switch. 2 weeks later the new switch failed. It was replaced. One week later it failed! Why? The timing circuit failed twice in short order. When questioned it seemed that the supplier was a bit frustrated with this particular brand of switch. Long story short, instead of going though the hassle of replacing the entire transfer switch again, I just rewired the old timing board from the failed switch into the new. Still working after 6 months.


After writing the above, the thought came across of it's incomplete message.

The transfer switch that went bad was actually a companion switch used in series with the original factory installed transfer switch. The companion switch is used to safeguard protect an inverter that supplies 110vac from a 12v battery bank. It is always bypassing the inverter circuit when either grid power or generator power is supplied. The motor home is always plugged into the grid when idle so the companion transfer switch is on 24/7 all year long. To be clear the timing circuit is in continuous use and the new timing board is not up to the task. Most likely engineered for intermitted use in a short use application. So be careful in selection of a timing switch.

John
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #651 - 11/26/22 at 01:44:34
 

We will use quality stuff no worries.  But in the event of a failure the speaker jacks simply won't be muted, so unless you have noisy tubes during start up you would never know if it did fail.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #652 - 12/05/22 at 01:07:00
 

UPDATE 12/4/2022

In trying to solve the startup clicks and pops with certain tubes I got side tracked with delay on relays that became complicated and expensive.  Then I greatly improved the idea with a low voltage relay to short the speaker jacks during start up.  

This weekend I had an idea of how to solve the problem by loading the VR tubes differently.  I was able to eliminate the relays and power to drive them with a simple resistor.  That's a lot more Zen, I am a much happier.  The amplifier is now completed.

I am very pleased with the final result.  If you recall when I started this project I was a little concerned what other 300B amps would sound like... I am now at a place where I could care less what other 300B amps sound like.  I was concerned because I was worried what would happen if similarly priced 300B amps sound better.  Now I seriously doubt they will sound as good.  

I'll be working on the final pricing over the holidays.  The amp will be online for sale in January.

-Steve



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #653 - 12/05/22 at 01:21:05
 

That leaves only one thing left... the base design.

Because this amplifier uses a rather large choke, it will not fit in our normal wood bases, despite the amp being the same dimensions as the SE34I.6 and TORII JRv2.



In our normal wood bases, a hole has to be cut out so that the choke will fit.  So you can see how this could be a pain in the ass and if it's going to be a pain in the ass, we may as well just design a new wood base that fits.

Naturally because the new base will be taller and that will ultimately change the profile, I have been pondering a new design.  I created a new profile for the Zen Triode Anniversary Amplifier to distinguish it from the rest of the line, and since this amp has been built to that same standard it too should have it's own profile.

I spent days thinking about a new design, and hours in my wood shop doing sketches and it became apparent in the process that I was going to just have to give it my best guess, make one and then put the amp in it and see if it looks good.

I wanted something contemporary but with more mass and shape like the black figured base shown above.  




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #654 - 12/05/22 at 01:29:19
 

Something we've never done with a wood base for our amplifiers is make one thicker than 3/4 inch. The exception is the black moulded base, but that is a 3/4 base with moulding wrapped around it. This time I thought I would start with 2 inch solid hardwood and so the journey begins.  Below is the profile I came up with.




Instead of a 5/16 to 3/8 lip around the top, I went with 1/2 inch to make it more meaty.


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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #655 - 12/05/22 at 01:34:16
 

I stained it dark so I could study the silhouette when it's on the rack in my listening room with the amp in it.  Here you can see the 1/2 inch wide lip around the top.



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #656 - 12/05/22 at 01:40:37
 

It didn't look terrible out here in the light, but be careful what you wish for... it's got mass alright!  It draws all your attention away from the amplifier to the base.

At this stage the only place I can see it looking right is in an 18th century stone castle with high ceilings and 4 inch thick oak doors.

Nevertheless I tried to get used to it for a bit, and took it in the listening room where it looked way worse.   I decided the top lip is too wide, the top 27 degree face is too long, the 90 degree face is too short and the base is overall too wide. That's not too many things...




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #657 - 12/05/22 at 01:45:55
 

The only reason I am posting about the base is because this is a design journal -- and the process of creating a wood base is part of the design.  People want to see the whole process of the amp design, mistakes along the way and so on.

I will say that staining it with a dark but ugly finish was very helpful in helping me study the profile.  The finish was so ugly I tried to find solace in the shape but after staring at it in the dimly lit listening room it was just too much.  Now with my list of observations about what is wrong with it, it is time to fix it.

I will simply address each point and bring it back in and try again.



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #658 - 12/05/22 at 01:58:43
 
Eventually it will look nice, I'm sure of it, and be distinctive. And cost more. Wink It's going to be quite an amp!

I read through a lot of this development thread today and the conclusions you came to about its character and presentation were exciting. It was described just how I would want it to be. Wow, this is going to be something.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #659 - 12/05/22 at 01:59:40
 

So here the replacement.  I knew in the wood shop that it was probably going to be right, so here is it with all the points addressed.




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #660 - 12/05/22 at 02:02:40
 




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #661 - 12/05/22 at 02:12:53
 

Here is a shot of it in the listening room...



click to enlarge




click to enlarge


This is African Padauk.  We should be able to do it in all the normal hardwoods.  

Sarah would have kicked my ass if I had let the other one slide through!  Next time you see this amplifier it will most likely be on the web site.

Now I get to listen for awhile : )

Steve



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #662 - 12/05/22 at 02:23:25
 




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #663 - 12/05/22 at 02:37:21
 
"So many rectifiers, so little time."
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #664 - 12/05/22 at 02:54:17
 


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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #665 - 12/05/22 at 03:08:42
 
I like the base the way it appears in reply 654. The upside down picture. That is elegant!

Brian
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #666 - 12/05/22 at 04:13:50
 
I was hoping for a late Sunday update and you delivered.  And then some!

Love the new signature look of the 300b wood base.  Can’t wait for it to go online so we can view different wood finish options, though I have to say it does look gorgeous in African Padauk.

Congrats Steve—-what a journey! You must be a proud papa!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #667 - 12/05/22 at 05:12:14
 
That's one meaty UNIT!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #668 - 12/05/22 at 11:47:34
 
Damn, I was hoping for a ruby studded platinum base for the 300B😂. Great work on the new base design Steve. She's a real beauty for sure, worthy of a special reveal party complete with champagne.

HK
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #669 - 12/05/22 at 12:26:49
 
Steve,

All I can say is wow !!  The beveled edge on all four sides really shows off the stature of the amp.  Roll out the red carpet and pull up in the Rolls Royce….this beauty is ready for the proper unveiling!!

Dom
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #670 - 12/05/22 at 19:22:35
 
beautiful looking base ! I loved the larger one too , in fact Ive been "doodling" a bit for awhile now trying to come up with an over sized base design for my other Decware pieces to "jive" better with large base Idler drive turntables. TD124, 301's , Lenco etc .
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #671 - 12/06/22 at 00:06:36
 
Steve Deckert wrote on 12/05/22 at 02:23:25:


My new laptop desktop.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #672 - 12/11/22 at 05:48:25
 

UPDATE 12/10/2022

I have the amplifier priced and am now starting to work on the web page.

The following are introductory prices.

The amplifier without tubes will be $4128.00

With my hand selected tube compliment tested in the amp driving lower cost $150.00 300B tubes will put the price around $4758.00

With my hand selected tube compliment minus the $150 low cost 300B tubes and the anticipated coupon from Western Electric it should be possible to get into this amplifier with the Western Electric WE300B tubes for around $5958.00

Whohoo! I can finally stop thinking about that for awhile!

I am going to offer this amp fully pimped out meaning it was designed from the ground up with fully anniversary mods, chassis and hardware. It has been built to the same anniversary standard as the SE84UFO25.

There will be no choices except perhaps the VR tubes that you want.  The OA2 for more relaxed sound favoring high efficiency speakers, or OC2 for more neutral and cleaner sound favoring less efficient speakers.  I have both of these New Old Stock VR tubes on hand.

So now my attention shifts to the web page.





click to enlarge


Here is a teaser photo from the page.  It's Sarah taking a picture of Sarah.




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #673 - 12/11/22 at 06:27:36
 
Great Steve! Now you have that figured out and I'm sure a part of you relaxed a bit. I like that I can purchase one without tubes as I have plenty of the tubes available in different brands and types. And I can maybe start out with the WE 300B tubes.

Looking forward to the web page and manual!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #674 - 12/11/22 at 17:49:15
 
Steve,

Thanks for the Sarah pricing information and options. Looks like all the bases are covered. Best wishes as you begin the builds on this new amplifier.

HK
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #675 - 12/11/22 at 20:38:22
 
That is awesome.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #676 - 12/11/22 at 21:09:40
 
OMG! My new screensaver is Sarah’s reflection in the tube Kiss
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #677 - 12/11/22 at 23:45:12
 
An amazing photo. I can't use it as a screen saver. . .not unless I want to sleep in the dog house.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #678 - 12/12/22 at 00:06:31
 
Talk about the proverbial mic drop with Sarah’s reflection in the rectifier tube. Wow—what a stroke of genius!

I think the pricing structure is very fair.  A tubeless option will be cheered by many who already have the requisite tubes and or who just want to go their own way of selecting tubes.  That said, I’m definitely going for Steve’s hand selected option.  Not sure if I am going to start with the WE300 just yet—I can always upgrade later and that way, I will have a spare fallback pair (but then I miss the discount).  Let’s see how much I can save up in the meantime.  I also need to revisit the thread and refresh my memory on how the $150 tubes fared against WE.

Looking forward to more information on the website soon.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #679 - 12/12/22 at 01:07:24
 
Re: website, I'm curious to see if it goes above or below the UFO25...
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #680 - 12/12/22 at 04:43:15
 
$5958 is less than the figure I used sw Pa. math to cypher out, in@.
Decked out Decware 300B amp, $5000
WE 300B matched pair, $1500, less coupon, maybe $1350
So, $6350 was the number I was thinking, if not more by the time my turn comes up. With luck, I’ll be receiving some Wathen 300B’s to try out in my Willy at weeks end & an amp with a quad of WE 300B’s next month to hold me over till my dance with Sarah can begin. 300B amps just seem to be something special in general, but I can’t wait to hear the Decware, though I know I must.
 Best wishes to all, Ralph

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #681 - 12/13/22 at 04:35:11
 

click to enlarge



I have been enjoying the finished product and just doing some listening that in turn has solved the dilemma of the VR tubes.  As you know it can use 3 different ones and there are three.  One does the 12AU7 input tube and the other two handle the 6N6P driver tubes.

I've been listening to the lusher sounding OA2 which is closest to the prototype and the OC2/75C1 to get a feel for the range of voicing this is going to impart on the amplifier.  There is a 75 volt difference between the two tubes.  OB2 which is also compatible falls right in the middle.

If we just had two, the OA2 and the OC2 there would be four ways to set it up and listen.  

1) all three OC2
2) all three OA2
3) two OC2 for drivers one OA2 for input
4) two OA2 for drivers one OC2 for input

I have spent the past week evaluating all four and thought I might be letting people choose between three OC2 or three OA2.  This would mean trying to explain it, emails, phone calls, people trying to choose which one, just headaches for everyone.  

Tonight I have discovered that option 4 is the secret bullet, so the amp when purchased with tubes will be shipping with two OA2 and one 75C1 which is the same as an OC2. I have located and purchased four hundred N.O.S. OA2 and just over one hundred 75C1.

The web page is started and now the dreaded owners manual...





 



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #682 - 12/13/22 at 10:19:30
 
Interesting. . .I enjoy rolling VR tubes and have all three types on hand, actually several brands of each, and I'll try your "sweet spot" combo first when I have the amp. It's amazing what a difference these tubes make in these revealing circuits. Yet another thing to look forward to!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #683 - 12/14/22 at 12:54:49
 
Ralph, I'm looking forward to your impressions of the two tube brands, or not. . . as obsessing about this amp is becoming my go to obsession of late.

My wife caught me looking at the (photoshopped) image in your post and said "so that's why you post in this forum all the time!" I assured her that Sarah rarely posts here and that Sarah and I are both happily married! Wink

I'm so interested in the 300B that I have this idea that I am going to try to have it fully paid for before it is built and shipped, instead of charging it and paying it off. . . I may put my CSP2+ with ALL the Anniversary Mods up for sale and my Taboo Mk III with all the Anniversary mods as well. (I just don't see myself parting with my SE84UFO3 Monoblocks ever unless I need to eat or pay Uncle Sam!) I've thought of anything that I can sell. . . haven't thought of guitars and basses yet but that may come! This is going to be one helluvan amp, I just know.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #684 - 12/14/22 at 13:45:17
 
Steve: Good call on not providing choices for rolling VR tubes.  Removes angst.  People can experiment on their own later on.

Lon: I’m with you on the obsession.  My biggest nightmare is one of these days, I’m going to mutter ‘Sarah’ in my sleep, my significant other will hear it, and I’m going to have a lot of explaining to do….

I’ve already started my monthly installments.  I prefer to have it paid off before it ships.  It’s kind of an indirect way to get 0% financing. Sarah (the real Sarah) can hook you up.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #685 - 12/14/22 at 13:53:08
 
LOL on the talking in your sleep. Fortunately in my household it is my wife who talks (laughs, sings, shouts!) in her sleep. Also Fiona, our miniature red dachshund. . . she barks softly on occasion in her sleep.

I already do have money down on the amp, about a third, thanks. Just have to come up with the other two thirds in this next year.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #686 - 12/14/22 at 16:15:58
 
What’s the real wait time on this amp? Anybody guess? I’m too old for 3 years.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #687 - 12/14/22 at 16:23:58
 
Quote:

With my hand selected tube compliment minus the $150 low cost 300B tubes and the anticipated coupon from Western Electric it should be possible to get into this amplifier with the Western Electric WE300B tubes for around $5958.00

Curious, I searched for a recent listing of Steve's "hand-selected tubes."  Found various references for individual tubes but not a complete list. Has anyone seen one?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #688 - 12/14/22 at 16:26:33
 
The most recent statement I've seen from Steve is "1.5 to 2 years" for a wait list.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #689 - 12/14/22 at 16:27:04
 
Mr. Lonson; I wouldn’t count on my opinion to be of much help in the sound quality of these tubes once I have experienced them. I find myself just enjoying music in itself. Just yesterday I was listening to an old Shanling amp with old JAN GE 5670s & Tung Sol 7581A’s & thought to myself “ this music is really cooking big time”.  I was enjoying the “music”. But as I listened I realized the percussion was there, but didn’t sound right. This was playing through some old JBL’s. So I switched to my 300B Willy (also a Chinese amp)& Forte IV’s & it sounded more lifelike. And I said to myself “that’s the ticket” but the fact was I really enjoyed the music in itself no matter the actual quality of the sound. I think if I’ve heard something enough my mind will help fill in the blanks. BTW, except for a few of my early cheap guitar purchases, I regret selling some old gems. Some were trades but I find myself thinking I wish I would’ve kept that old ax all the time. But if you have a lefty Fender strat that you want to part with let me know. I “kind of” like that reverse Hendrix vibe.  Being a righty I don’t see the lefty stats that often as I casually look for things I don’t need but had fun with in the past. I see that you consider yourself a lucky so & so, I’m in that same boat.

     With great respect, Ralph
   

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #690 - 12/14/22 at 16:34:44
 
Interestingly Ralph what you write makes me more inclined to trust your impressions of tube differences!

I'm hoping that especially with a coupon from Steve I might be able to start out with the Western Electric tubes. . . . We'll see. There are so many other options! Which is a good thing.

I hope not to sell any guitars but realistically for domestic tranquility and to not leave a huge mess for my wife if something happens to me I have a lot of downsizing of recordings, guitars and other instruments, equipment etc. to do in the coming years. I don't have any left-handed guitars though I do have three real Fender Strats and two (cherished, fantastic) "FrankenStrats." I can understand wanting to explore what the reversed bridge/nut phenomenom might reveal in a reversed setup.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #691 - 12/14/22 at 18:40:40
 
I’ve played one & it’s a hoot & a challenge at the same time. Needs a nut slotted right handed & the stock bridge can be adjusted I believe. String length behind the nut is different, but the big things to me are the whammy bar & knobs under my right arm & reduced access to the upper registers. But the style!! Some call me a style master(J/K)


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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #692 - 12/14/22 at 19:07:19
 
Lon, I hope you are right about the wait time, as it sounds optimistic.  If you are #2000 in line, to get your amp in 2 years, Decware would have to distribute 85 units a month.  That's more than double their current levels of distribution.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #693 - 12/14/22 at 19:09:59
 
Tony, I am just quoting the recent information Steve gave out. Steve's info I trust more than anyone else's information and calculation, but we'll see is probably the safest answer.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #694 - 12/14/22 at 19:53:02
 
Steve, the amp looks great and looking forward to seeing it on the website.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #695 - 12/14/22 at 20:47:35
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tony      Posted on: Today at 16:23:58

...Curious, I searched for a recent listing of Steve's "hand-selected tubes."  Found various references for individual tubes but not a complete list. Has anyone seen one?


I think the ""hand-selected tubes" is what you get when you buy the amp with all the tubes. Similar to the UFO25.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #696 - 12/14/22 at 21:03:31
 
I did not ask that question very well. I am seeking a list of what tubes go into the 300b. I know there will be two 300b tubes. I think there will be one 75c1 tube. Others?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #697 - 12/14/22 at 21:21:19
 
Tony there will be a rectifier and it seems that the stable of 5U4 types that we are used to can be used. The input stage tube will be a 12AU7 type, there will be two 6922 types (Steve has been using Russian 6N6P here and preferring them), and there will be three voltage regulation tubes for the input and driver tubes, and all three types, 0C2, 0B2 and 0A2 can be used. Steve recently discovered he likes best one 75C1 (0C2) for the input and two 0AC2 for the drivers and I suspect he will ship with those three. I bet Steve ships with the Decware 5U4G though he hasn't indicated that, and he says he will ship with the Chinese NGG 300B tubes, I bet he ships with 6N6P and the mystery is which 12AU7 tube he will ship with. He really likes the Cryotone but that's a big expense to pass on to the buyer.

Ultimately I'm doing some educated guesswork here. . . Steve's answer is the one that counts. Looking forward to the web page! (But I want the man to take his time!)
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #698 - 12/15/22 at 03:36:29
 

I can help with the hand selected tube compliment.  Every Decware amp has this, where the tubes are selected during QC while the amplifier is on the scope and distortion analyzer.  In this particular amp the compliment will be 6N6P driver tubes and a 12AU7 input tube.  The VR tubes I thought would be the 75C1, but frankly during the off days when the power sucks and radiation from cell towers and the sun itself is too much causing things to sound sharper, the OA2 is like jumping ahead in time to midnight when everything gains insane liquidity.

I will probably ship the amp with three OA2 now that I think about it, so that way it can't sound bad even handicapped, and no stress in getting the right tube in the right location.  All three are the same, just plug them in.




I am listening to the trio of OA2 tonight using my reference tape machine as the source and it's really been a holy shit moment.  The combination of Sarah, the new Fast 15 driver in the large baffles with network, and the tape machine as the source has more than melted my face off so many times I just can't believe how insanely good this sounds.  

For the first time I am getting the holy grail SE84UFO25 sound through my tape machine!  You see, 2.3 watts is not enough for tape.  The dynamic range of tape compared to LP or stream is 10dB more.  As great as it sounded you could always count on it clipping just when things started getting real...  Not any more.  The headroom of this amp even at four watts is enough to handle the dynamics of tape.  It is truly the best I've ever heard tape sound in my room.  ZF15L, SEWE300B, TAPEMACHINE.

I will make videos of this no worries.  Also I will be back on my tape kick until well after the holidays.  Now that it sounds this good I will have to listen to dozens of tapes again.  Speaking of which, I have a master copy from Columbia Studios in N.Y. of Dave Brubeck's Time Out calling me...

Steve

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #699 - 12/16/22 at 19:55:16
 
Love the new base. Any chance of offering the top plate in copper or anodized black?
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