Are any tubes for this amp besides the 300b available from a US manufacturer?
WE announced back in March that they would be expanding. I understand that takes time but back to some of the original posts in this development thread it gave the impression that part of the intention was to create an amp around US tubes. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything or have any updates?

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Yeah, "time" is going to be measured in years and probably many years IMO. The internet thinks the next tube WE is going to make is a 6SN7 anyway, which while potentially adaptable is not directly usable in Sarah. The thing about the 300B is that, for a vacuum tube, it is big and simple so (relatively) easy to manufacture. Stepping up to an octal dual triode like the 6SN7 is like a new generation of tube technology. And going from that to a miniature 9 pin like a 12A[T|U|X]7 is another generation after that.

Yes, the Cryo-tone voltage regulation tubes start out as NOS American made tubes.

I agree whole-heartedly . . . especially as my sonic experience with the Wathen tubes I've bought is less positive than that of many here. I literally have dozens of these voltage regulation tubes in my stash, bought very very reasonably. Looking forward to the fine-tuning they may add to my 300B listening; have really enjoyed rolling them in my Toriis (in the past) and SE84UFO3 Monoblocks.

https://youtu.be/H2LWY-ZSLng

And here is the link to the web page for the Sarah 300B amplifier: https://www.decwareproducts.com/sarah

Congrats Steve— a major milestone, this!

Happy Holidays to you and the Decware team!

I agree, Congratulations! Thank you very much for letting us come along for the ride!  

Love this thread!

I'm new here and just a couple questions that I have bouncing around my head. I'm not an EE so bear with me if I missed or misunderstood anything.

Would you ever consider mono Sarah amps? How could 2x Sarah be a bad thing am I right?!

I have a really nice DAC that I would love to run into something like this. The DAC can output 6V, 2V, and 0.6V. I almost have to wonder if in my case it wouldn't be preferable to run the 6V out and skip a pre-amp section, but the intention that you've put into it means that it's going to work well and as intended by the designer. Would you most likely run it at 2V in? I have a pair of Altec 604 with >100dB efficiency and run way at the bottom of the dial with a 12W 6V6 push-pull.

The hum is something else I am considering with these speakers but honestly I don't think it will be a big deal when playing music, and that type hum is pretty innocuous anyway. I have an isolation transformer that I run with my Shindo Apetite and would run one here as well.

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First, welcome to the family!

Now, my 2 cents is this. I have two UFOs that I run as balanced/differential monos, and they are so good I got back on the waiting list for a pair of UFO25s. I think running a pair of Sarahs balanced (assuming your  source is truly balanced) would be awesome. But if your speakers are really  >100dB and you want to use the amps as "regular" single ended monos I don't know if that is really the best way to spend another 4, 5 or 6+ grand (depending on tubes , interconnects etc.) when a single Sarah has way more juice than you need to drive your speakers to really loud.

This looks stunningly beautiful...

Any opinions yet on using the Sarah vs. CSP325 + SE84UFO25 (w/pimped mods)? Speakers are currently Forte IVs, but would likely upgrade to Cornwalls down the line. Primary source is mid-level turntable, but that would also get an upgrade to high end deck + MC + ZPC + ZM1-3.

Am currently on the waiting list for some of this stuff but would be considering a pivot prior to their pulling my order.

Thanks!

Thanks Lon. I'd wager the rubber hits the road at "magnificent if different." So more specifically, I'm interested in getting great regular performance at around 65db, with occasional (read: spouse-free) sessions at 75-80db. Content is all over the place, but lots of classic rock and modern post-rock (Tortoise, Shellac, Jim O'Rourke, etc), plus some fairly regular hip hop streamed from DAC. Hoping Steve (or others) might speak to these sorts of differences.

Hey Lon. You mention Steve undecided whether a preamp is needed. Aric said the same to me regarding my 300b. I wonder if it’s a 300b thing or a level of quality thing. Next time I contact Aric I will ask.

Very nice! I bet that will sound awesome. Should be fun to try with and without. Look forward to your thoughts on the sound.

Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t imagine a system without a (tube) preamp.

CAJames. I’ve always had a pre as well. It’s strange not using one. My dac has tubes. So at least I’ve got that.

It can be hard to make a purchase without hearing these amps in person.  Steve’s YouTube videos do help in the process.  Personally I’ve found that listening to the the Decfest live stream renders more detail versus the Youtube videos.  

Maybe Steve would consider setting up livestream appointments every now and then to hear the differences between the UFO25 and the Sarah or any other combinations of amps.  

I attended Decfest the year the UFO25 was released (which was my first Decfest) and was amazed on all fronts.  Afterward I had a conversation with Steve with concerns over my room size and the power output of the UFO25 vs the TORII MKIV.  I ultimately decided to go with the Torii since I wanted the extra power to handle movies and for parties.   BUT…. I can tell you that I fell in love with the SET sound so much that after 1.5 years of Torii ownership and having funds more readily available… I grabbed a ZEN UFO on the used market.  I have been using the ZEN amp almost exclusively lately for my regular listening sessions and the Torii for parties and movies.  

I have a hunch that the Sarah 300B may be the end all and game changing amp in the SET topology as long as it’s paired with decently efficient speakers.  I must admit that with now owning both Push Pull and SET Decware amps….I gravitate towards the sound of the SET topology.  Hope this helps.  

Dom

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Honestly, I posted that somewhat tongue in cheek because, like I said, I have no idea what it actually means and it was referring to an earlier version of the amp, not the one that will actually be sold. If you haven't read all this thread (or at least Steve's posts) that would be a good project at which point you'd know as much as most of us. Also the UFO25 thread is here:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1510887200

and here:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1531362294

For me personally I love my UFOs so much I'm back on the waiting list for a pair of UFO25s. A few months ago I acquired a (used) 300B amp similar to this one:

http://www.thebestamp.com/Single-Ended_Tube_Amps/SE-300B-BAL.php

And with Takatsuki 300B tubes and "fancy" 6SN7 equivalent input tubes it sounds really good, and actually pretty similar to my UFOs, but I like the UFOs better. So if it were me, I would take the UFO25. I love the speed and detail and transparency and don't find I'm lacking any "midrange magic" or whatever you want to call it. Also, my Scottish Heritage points out the UFO25 is considerably less expensive than a Sarah with high end 300B tubes, which in my (limited) experience would be absolutely essential.

The first retail production model hasn't even been built much less delivered yet. I would caution posting comparisons between the UFO25 and other manufacturers' 300b amps in the Decware SEWE300B development thread, lest we really confuse people.

I’ll play devil’s advocate…I doubt anyone will get a 300b and say it doesn’t measure up. Perhaps over time when the new toy phase wears off. I’m hoping it’s a big hit, personally I’m in no position to upgrade for awhile, but the seed has been planted in my head…UFO25 or 300b…I don’t think that’s an easy decision!

Ok, I have to chime in here, if you told me the number of most tubes I would have to look up what it is. I don’t look at or want to understand graphs. Like most I want the most bang for the Buck. If I hear an improvement it’s better to me.

Well, while waiting patiently for a Sarah 300b, zbit, and zrock 2 system we purchased a Dennis Had 300b amp, and the 300b amp has totally blown us away. We just love the WE 300b sound! We are using Goldenear Triton Reference speakers 93.25db we mostly play at 60% volume, crank it to 80% volume and that plays at 85db in our 20 x 22 room that has extensive GIK Acoustics room treatment as well as lots of silk plants.

All of this has changed our lives, there is no such thing as music (system) fatigue here. We wake up saying to each other… ok, ok it’s James Taylor day, or Pink Floyd day, or etc. etc.… too many songs so little time!

Thank You… eagerly and patiently waiting for our Sarah to come home.

Just my thoughts,
Steve

We wake up saying to each other… ok, ok it’s James Taylor day, or Pink Floyd day, or etc. etc.… too many songs so little time


Steve, I think that's about as good as it gets, Congrats

What brand of 300b tubes did you settle on?

And, what tube came with Dennis Had 300b? Did it come with WE?

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I wasn't really thinking of transient response when I made that analogy --

When I look at a 60 FPS video I see more fluidity in the way things move.  It has little to do with resolution of the images that are moving.  I often resort to video references when trying to describe sound.

Another analogy I could use is color.  The colors are bolder and richer on the Sarah but when the colors go semi-transparent so you can start to see through the color, the UFO25 shows this translucency with crystal clarity.

Over the years and especially with the UFO25 I have come to understand the Zen Triode is the amp you actually can't hear.  That's it's magic.  I got the Sarah as close to that as the 300B wanted to get without loosing its sonic potential.

So we think the 300B is warmer or fatter sounding than the 6P15P used in the UFO25 because that is what we hear.

There is some great irony in that because the first harmonic of the fundamental tone on an SET amplifier is always even order and in this case exactly double the frequency of the fundamental tone.  This ghost note exactly one octave above the music is what determines the THD distortion %.

In my world it is the most meaningful when we look at what is happening at 1 watt RMS of output as this is where it will be during the majority of your listening session on most speakers.

You would think the "SET" sound is due to this even order harmonic since push pull amplifiers generally don't have it, and have much lower distortion in general.  You would think that because an SET amp has this ghost note as high as 3% vs. the high power amplifiers that measure ten to 100 times lower that this is where the "sound" comes from.

Yet, when we look at the UFO25 at 1 watt of output the distortion is around 1% or more and the Sarah 300B at the same 1 watt of output is considerably less.  Just the opposite of what you would expect based on that theory.

I think the subjective comparisons to video are at least several times more telling about the sound than the THD specification.  If everyone could read the harmonics on a distortion analyzer with real meaning, like Nelson Pass as one example, then the distortion graph could begin to tell a meaningful story.

Even though I understand what I'm doing I still marvel at why and how things can sound so different.  If I didn't we would only have one amplifier.

Glen's 300B amp is now in "Parts Pulled" status!