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Awesome! Do you plan on using it with the Sashas (Sashi)?

You could always get two

I hope works out for you, it sounds like it could be great.

Steve, when would you be able to check out the Cryotone 300bs?

My problem with inexpensive current production tubes, Chinese or otherwise isn't the sound it's the reliability. JMO.

CAJ, is there an answer to the dependabiltiy question with commonly available pieces?

I often buy odd numbers and choose the best of five for instance. That gives me an emergency spare, maybe.

... or do you just not seek bargains?

Lazb -

I believe those may be speaker cables that Steve is developing, he will be updating us once he has meaningful information.

Hi CA, you referenced your tube tester, and it got me thinking about them as this year has been my year of building up an inventory of tubes.  I looked online, and the list of testers seemed endless.  Do you have any recommendations?  I would need one that complemented the usual Decware tubes (sizes) of interest.  At the same time, I wonder if I need one.

Perhaps other forum members can chime in with the benefits of owning one or not.

Thanks, Tony

The fact that this $55 tube sounds as good as it does in this amplifier has lifted my spirits a bit.  It tells me the magic is largely the amplifier because I'm getting a $55 tube to sound as good as a $700 tube.  It also obviously makes the amp more affordable so more people will enjoy it.

If you purchased 10 of these tubes at $550 and replaced them every year if needed, you would still be ahead.  I seriously doubt the tube is going to diminish to the point of replacement in a year.  More likely just fail for no reason abruptly.  Seems to be the Chinese way.  

The problem with Chinese consumer grade manufacturing is that consistency is a casualty of the manufacturing process where you have a government that makes you move your factory because they've decided to close an entire region over covid outbreaks.  And that is just one recent example of perhaps hundreds I could list that create this problem.  

With the Western Electric tube, it is the opposite.  So consistent it's almost crazy by comparison.  This is why there is a 5 year warranty.  I expect it will last far beyond that even for retired all day listeners.

This gives some nice options.  If you can afford it, and want to take the output tube variable completely out of the equation, buy US made WE.  If not,  a pair of these tubes if they're anything like mine, will be fine.  Just be aware that when you order some it might be like the game of Plinko.



The center slot is the tube that lasts way longer than normal and sounds great doing it.  The two o slots on either side are tubes that fail in the first hour or week.  The remaining slots are the different grades of satisfaction you will get.

Best analogy I've ever given.

Steve

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You wrote that on my behalf, did you ! I am also on that boat  [smiley=10.gif]

Tony,

I've owned tube amps and preamps, including Decware, for over 20 years now. My audio experience changed dramatically in 2008 when I acquired a Hickok 600 and I was able to test tubes for myself.

CAJames is correct that calibration is the key; mine was freshly calibrated when I bought it and I got it recalibrated a couple years ago. While absolute readings on any particular tester will vary, once you get a feel for your tester you can definitely know whether tubes you're using or tubes you buy are up to snuff. I've been able to procure some amazing bargains on untested tubes which ended up testing NOS. I've also bought "tested NOS" tubes that on my Hickok turned out to be crap, and the seller wouldn't make good, but my good experiences have way outwayed my bad ones.

Bottom line, if you want to dabble in NOS tubes a tester is invaluable. If you're happy with new production tubes from reputable sellers, just keep a new set of tubes on hand to swap out periodically with your current tubes. Your ears will tell you whether your current tubes have worn out.

David

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I didn't say I couldn't hear a difference, I said the 55 sounds just as good.  Good enough that to get into the meat of the differences I would have to A/B the tubes, which I will in time.  

The answer to your question is likely because this 55 sounds similarly good to the 700.  Transparency of the amp will be quickly decided once people start taking delivery of it so I'll let that issue work itself out in the wash.

I think we can all agree that 700 is overpriced, but with the 5 year warranty and for all the other reasons listed, I think that price is acceptable.

Also, the $55 tube has been researched and is claimed to be better sounding than many of the ultra high dollar Asian 300B tubes on the market.  It's not a random $55 tube by any means.  And as mentioned above, I could order another pair today and when they arrive they might easily suck which was my Plinko illustration.

The goal is to build the first production model #001 and compare it against this prototype in the next two months.  If everything goes to plan the production model can debut at DECFEST in October 2022.

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So my UFOs are overflowing with inviting, make-you-wanna-listen-all-night-kind-of-sound, but not because they are lush and warm. They are detailed and transparent and fast with just the right pinch of liquid tube magic. That is pretty much the "Decware Sound" and it seems like that is what the Sarah is going to have as well, but the liquid tube magic is going to be 300B flavored.

UPDATE JUL 11 2022

The algorithm test...

I have found an extremely reliable way to evaluate the fidelity of an amplifier that takes conscious thinking out of it, ego, expectations, and all the things that can skew results.

I have a track list that I duplicate. It's is quite large, perhaps 5K tracks. During the day and evenings while I work I set the playback to random. The tracks are made up largely of albums. Albums that I haven't heard many or most of the cuts on. So as I random play the goal is to either 1) mark the track as a favorite 2) mark the track not to play ever again 3) leave the track unmarked.

The only thing that is really important is #2)  mark the tracks to never play again. What constitutes this choice is something I don't like about the sound... usually midrange related, that would give me pause if I were to use this track as a demo. I am trying to create a track list of demo material ranging from good to great.

Simply start with a fresh copy of the list when ever you are evaluating amps or tubes or cables, etc., and listen for a week or two. How many times did you mark a track not to hear ever again?  When is it happening...

See this is where it gets interesting. I have been listening to the WE300B now for quite a while.  One of the things I was amazed with right away is the need to mark songs not to hear again diminished. In fact almost never did it happen, at least not for sound quality reasons.

I put in the $55 China tube and you read the results. It had a more present midrange and just an overall really nice tone about it. It was definitely a different sound and I was unsure which I liked better. And since it is just burning in, I am not doing much sweet spot listening because I don't like my soundstage to change while I listen, it wrecks my brain. Instead I just listen casually throughout the space and focus on everything else.

Yesterday I noticed that I was starting to mark quite a few tracks never to hear again because the midrange was getting pinched or graining out or getting almost sharp, sounding exactly like a bad recording.  

So it is changing for sure. Sadly it is heading in the wrong direction, so now I don't know if it is going to come back around with continued use or not.

I am giving the pair a rest and listening to the Cryotone 300B-WC that arrived today!!! They have been playing now for about 10 minutes after warming with no music for an hour. First takeaway is "a fleshy tangibility that seems to push things a notch higher on the real meter."

Remember, at this time I am not interested in A/B evaluations of the different 300B tubes. I am just taking a journey with the amp like a customer would. It's like a float trip down a spring fed river with lots of spontaneity and discovery.  So far the canoe hasn't tipped and it's been a positive experience.

As I write this and listen to Fin Greenall's voice on this new tube, I am also listening to it on the China tube by memory at the same time and doing some A?B comparisons in my mind.  Damn, I'm busted.  Anyway, playing now is a track that is flawless and the other tube is adding grain to the midrange and somewhat pinching it as well as pushing it a bit forward.  So it will be interesting to see where it lands when we put more hours on it.

Now listening to this:



And it is stunning.  I can almost smell the wood.  I haven't heard this particular track on the WE300B, but this is a float trip, the current is strong and you don't go upstream to see how many ways you can miss the rock because you'll never make it to the end.

Thanks for the recommendation, they are actually on my list.

UPDATE JUL 16 2022

As part of todays listening test we go back to prior references.  Tonight the Zen TORII Mono's with KT88's biased at 65-70mA.  The sound is overall tighter. More neutral, perhaps ever so slightly faster.  It's definitely a different sound.  The Sarah WE300B amp has more depth, bass texture, midrange texture, kinder  top end. Imaging is equally good but different. Probably a contest determined by speaker room synergy.  

Anyway, it's like back to my old reference on the House Speakers... and I feel like something is missing in the mid band and low end density area which is hard to believe considering one is 4 watts and one is 60 and the 4 watt is winning at normal listening volumes which is the only thing that actually counts.

This is the first time I have experienced the craving to "put it back" which is hard to believe because you wouldn't believe how good the Zen TORII Mono reference really is.

Also worthy of note is that the ZTPRE is driving the monos fully balanced. !!!

So yea the Sarah 300B sounds just like this picture of Sarah. It has more fun with music than normal. A fitting parallel if you knew Sarah. Many of you have caught her energy on the phone and this is such a fitting tribute to her as she is such a HUGE part of what makes Decware, DECWARE...  Not to mention her mastery over her two brothers , Jake and Josh who both work here and are irreplaceable. She kicked their asses when they were kids and it's no different in the shop, she always wins but at the same time is completely powerless because they just don't care.



I really have no more fears about how this amplifier might compare with the hundreds of other 300B amps on the market. I have explored the range of sounds the tube is capable of and chosen the best recipe to my own ears which have so far never let me down.

I'm pretty excited to manufacture this amplifier.  It has a similar special spot in my heart just like the original Zen Triode amp. It is just so cool that her mother came into my life right after I launched the original Zen Triode amplifier.  Between DeVon's amazing support and her amazing skill sets and ability to pass that along to Sarah I have been more than blessed with the final result and so have all of you. They and their brothers are the real reason Decware as you know it is able to happen. I'm not talking about talking on the phone... both of these women can build Zen Amplifiers better than all of us. Those magical tiny hands and attention to detail. Everyone here is cross trained in almost everything.

And yes, that girl as well as her mother, my wife, can build a Zen amp better than you, even better than myself. Sarah is so neurotic that she is the only one that can build a perfect ZEN HEAD battery operated headphone amp.  

Happy Listening... see you when I get back unless I kill myself trying to waterski on vacation next week. If that happens just know I love you all and Sarah and DeVon can well handle it.





See you when we get back!

Thanks for the continued update Steve.  This is turning out to be a great thread following your journey developing the Sarah and I didn’t realize the family connection until your last post!

Have a great vacation!

What. .. no Saturday night update! Steve really IS on vacation.

I look forward to all the updates. I'm resigned to a long wait, but these will help me, intriguing me each time.

I think those of you who attend Decfest this year are in for a special treat with the 300B Sarah amp taking center stage. Will orders for this special amp increase after the event? I think so.

I hope Western Electric is ramping up production on the tubes to meet demand as well 😁.

HK

I think I get it. They're both the top step of a particular stairway to heaven. I'm on the 25th Anniversary UFO stairway right now and they can take me to heaven. All that is missing is a touch of lush magic that I remember hearing in a 300B amp, I could definitely imagine being on that stairway and thinking all that is missing is that razor like insight that the 25th UFO has at its heart. I know I will love the 300B when it's settled into my listening life, and yet I know that these Monoblocks will also still have my heart for that unique propulsion system they have.

Of course not everyone is going to have to have both. That's just Steve's way of saying he has two chart-toppers on his hands I believe.  

Such a great thread to read an amp designer developing a new amp. Thank you for sharing.

If I wanted to order a Sarah300b could I get on the waitlist now by ordering a different amp and then changing the order once the new amp is available to order?

UPDATE AUG 4 2022

Wednesday, the first of our three day listening session, has come and gone already.  Randy arrived in the early afternoon and we just decompressed and chatted for a couple hours until around 4:00 PM when we decided to start our listening adventure.  Prior to his arrival, I had a listening appointment where I demo'd my personal SE84UFO25 on the ZF15M, the corner horns and then finally the new HDTSilver8 speakers.

This is the first time I have heard the amplifier since it came back from Don and Roger at Cryotone.  I loaned it to them so they could fine tune their process around the tubes for that amplifier.  Additionally, the entire amplifier was Cryotreated.  During this short demo, I didn't actually really listen to it, I was more trying to demo what 2 watts can do to a first time visitor who had never heard tube gear and was having a hard time wrapping his head around the concept of 2 watts.  His fear was that there would be no bass.  Well, that was a fun demo!  Another Decware customer was created in less than 7 minutes.

Randy and I had a mission to listen to the new Sarah 300B amplifier, and he brought his own speakers and personal 300B amp and a selection of 300B tubes.  But since the HDTSilver8's were still hooked up and playing in the background, driven by my UFO25 and Holo Audio May DAC, we accidentally started to listening to that.  It was only the second time I have listened to the new HDT's since I put them together, and of course also the first time I had actually started to seriously listen to the UFO25.

I don't know about Randy, but I went in there with the thought that we'd listen to these for a few minutes and then haul the stuff in here from Randy's car and get started on our mission.  My guess is he had the same thought.  

Well, interestingly enough, we fell into the music and listened for 8 straight hours without a break until midnight where we shot the shit for another couple hours and went to bed.  Never even thought about listening to the new amp, or even different speakers.  Had no clue what time it was, and frankly it is the fastest 8 hours I think I've ever experienced.  I would have told you we were in there for 3 hours, but walking past the clock on the wall as we went to bed was a rude reminder as it said 2 AM.










So today, we're about to jump back into it a again, but since we've lost an entire day I'm already warming up the 300B to make sure it doesn't happen twice : )


Steve

You should behave You’re too used to being on vacation get to work

Paid for Wi-Fi on a plane.  First site visited: Decware—yeah Priorities.

Read-up on the development thread.  Looking forward to Steve and Randy getting back on mission from Thursday.

Kamran

We started with the Takatsuki TA-300Bs what are known to be in the Top three best sounding 300B tubes made. Cost $1700 for the pair.




This tube set a high benchmark in transparency and resolution and speed.  I would say a very honest sounding tube that can sound like whatever the signal is driving it. It has a raw unedited quality dripping with resolution. The tone was neutral.  It was more than impressive with well recorded music. We listened to it for a couple hours.