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DECWARE 300B Amp development thread (Read 126364 times)
CAJames
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #400 - 07/04/22 at 20:56:59
 
Quote:
Posted by: Beni      Posted on: Today at 19:51:03

It will be mine in about 6 month. Smiley


Awesome! Do you plan on using it with the Sashas (Sashi)?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #401 - 07/04/22 at 22:51:51
 
I planned it this way. I hope that the sashas get along with the Sarah. For the other case I have some  other speakers (eg Tube Tots, SA Pandion).

Besides, I will get enough headroom with the Torii V in case of doubt.
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CAJames
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #402 - 07/05/22 at 00:40:48
 
You could always get two

I hope works out for you, it sounds like it could be great.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
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Steve Deckert
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #403 - 07/06/22 at 01:48:41
 

UPDATE JUL 5 2022

For those following this thread and wondering if the amp can sound worth a crap with something other than the WE300B output tubes, and as we already knew the Russian gold Lion at $400 a pair sounded good.

Today I got in a pair of the least expensive tubes on my list, a pair of Chinese 300B that cost $120 a pair. My research suggested some of these inexpensive Chinese brands actually sound better than the fancy looking Chinese brands that are more commonly known.

I was most impressed with the build quality. Maybe I just got lucky, but this pair is better build quality than the Gold Lion. The glass is thicker and it makes less noise when tapped. So I put them in the amp this afternoon and then let them cook all day without any sound.

I am listening to them now and they sound great. I can tell right away that I'm going to like them. We'll let them play for a week and see what happens.  Truly it is one of the most impressive things I've seen come out of China for $55.  I would say it's a sleeper.





Since our plan is to sell this amplifier without the 300B tubes, these particular tubes would be a great way for someone on a tighter budget to initially save $1400.00 on the cost of the amp.






-Steve : )



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #404 - 07/06/22 at 11:42:53
 
Steve, when would you be able to check out the Cryotone 300bs?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #405 - 07/06/22 at 14:04:37
 
Do we have an ETA on Sarah yet?
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CAJames
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #406 - 07/06/22 at 14:54:21
 
My problem with inexpensive current production tubes, Chinese or otherwise isn't the sound it's the reliability. JMO.
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Same Old DD
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #407 - 07/06/22 at 15:20:26
 
Incredible news, Steve!
Especially for those of us who drive Chevys instead of Jaguars or Cadillacs. $120/pair is about the same as most tubes in use. Keeps me in the batting cage.
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Same Old DD
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #408 - 07/06/22 at 19:03:16
 
CAJ, is there an answer to the dependabiltiy question with commonly available pieces?

I often buy odd numbers and choose the best of five for instance. That gives me an emergency spare, maybe.

... or do you just not seek bargains?
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lazb
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #409 - 07/06/22 at 22:34:34
 
Have I missed it before? What are those speaker cables Steve has on the Sarah? Do not think I have seen them before! Sleepers?!?!?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #410 - 07/06/22 at 23:02:33
 
Lazb -

I believe those may be speaker cables that Steve is developing, he will be updating us once he has meaningful information.
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CAJames
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #411 - 07/07/22 at 00:53:28
 
Quote:
Posted by: Same Old DD      Posted on: Yesterday at 19:03:16
CAJ, is there an answer to the dependabiltiy question with commonly available pieces?

I often buy odd numbers and choose the best of five for instance. That gives me an emergency spare, maybe.

... or do you just not seek bargains?


I often do the same thing with NOS tubes. I mean you pretty much pays your money and takes your chances right? You can certainly get lucky with cheap tubes and unlucky with "heritage" tubes. And you might be better off with several cheap tubes vs a single expensive one for the same money. The only tube that has failed in my UFOs in almost 2 years is a high dollar NOS Mullard GZ34 that should have lasted my lifetime.

For me, I pretty much gave up on current production a long time ago and I look for bargains in NOS and esp. lightly used tubes from back in the golden age of tube tech. For one thing I have a tube tester so I can check that I'm getting what I paid for, but also the bargain hunting (and uncovering unusual compatible tubes) is a part of the fun. But that isn't for everyone.
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Tony
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #412 - 07/07/22 at 15:13:39
 

Hi CA, you referenced your tube tester, and it got me thinking about them as this year has been my year of building up an inventory of tubes.  I looked online, and the list of testers seemed endless.  Do you have any recommendations?  I would need one that complemented the usual Decware tubes (sizes) of interest.  At the same time, I wonder if I need one.

Perhaps other forum members can chime in with the benefits of owning one or not.

Thanks, Tony
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CAJames
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #413 - 07/07/22 at 16:23:06
 
Re: tube testers. That's an excellent question.

I got mine a long time ago, and like pretty much everything tube related prices have gone up considerably since then. It's certainly nice to have but if I were just getting into tubes now I don't know that spending the money on a tube tester is worthwhile vs. just buying (more expensive) tubes from more reliable sellers.

I have a Hickok TV-7D/U which I would classify as "pretty nice." Most any tube tester will test Decware tubes with the following caveat, there isn't a lot of info for testing Russian tubes (6P15P, 6N1P). When I test them I use US near equivalents e.g. 6BQ5 and 6DJ8. I can't speak to all other models but certainly that is the case for most US tube testers from the 50s/60s/70s.

Here are a couple more things to think about. Even if you get a tube tester it is (nearly) worthless unless it is calibrated so be sure you have a plan to get that done unless you buy a calibrated one, and even then it will need calibration every several years or so. The other thing, and this is maybe getting more into metaphysics than engineering, is that most tube testers, and certainly the ones you are likely to buy, are designed to test if a tube is bad, not so much if it is good. Which means the engineers at Hickok, HP et. al. needed to pick one operating point from the whole phase space of possible currents and voltages to test at to determine if the tube needs to be replaced. That is a nearly impossible problem and by and large they have done a remarkable job solving it, but even best case tube tester results need to taken with a bit of YMMV/FWIW. Certainly it is useful to know that a tube tests bad (like if you paid for NOS) or that it has shorts but I think the tendency is to read too much into a test result, esp. regarding "matched" tubes. There are fancy tube testers, I think Steve has one, that allow you to set any operating point and compare it to the data sheet values. That will tell you how good a tube is, and if two tubes are truly matched, but normal people like me (and probably you) aren't going to pay the kind of money those cost.

Hope that helps.

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #414 - 07/07/22 at 20:20:41
 

The fact that this $55 tube sounds as good as it does in this amplifier has lifted my spirits a bit.  It tells me the magic is largely the amplifier because I'm getting a $55 tube to sound as good as a $700 tube.  It also obviously makes the amp more affordable so more people will enjoy it.

If you purchased 10 of these tubes at $550 and replaced them every year if needed, you would still be ahead.  I seriously doubt the tube is going to diminish to the point of replacement in a year.  More likely just fail for no reason abruptly.  Seems to be the Chinese way.  

The problem with Chinese consumer grade manufacturing is that consistency is a casualty of the manufacturing process where you have a government that makes you move your factory because they've decided to close an entire region over covid outbreaks.  And that is just one recent example of perhaps hundreds I could list that create this problem.  

With the Western Electric tube, it is the opposite.  So consistent it's almost crazy by comparison.  This is why there is a 5 year warranty.  I expect it will last far beyond that even for retired all day listeners.

This gives some nice options.  If you can afford it, and want to take the output tube variable completely out of the equation, buy US made WE.  If not,  a pair of these tubes if they're anything like mine, will be fine.  Just be aware that when you order some it might be like the game of Plinko.



The center slot is the tube that lasts way longer than normal and sounds great doing it.  The two o slots on either side are tubes that fail in the first hour or week.  The remaining slots are the different grades of satisfaction you will get.

Best analogy I've ever given.

Steve




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #415 - 07/07/22 at 22:55:32
 
Sadly for me at my age and the Decware wait list I’m not worried about how long the tube will last, it is not a concern. More concerned with getting the amp while I can still enjoy it.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #416 - 07/07/22 at 23:12:40
 
Quote:
Sadly for me at my age and the Decware wait list I’m not worried about how long the tube will last, it is not a concern. More concerned with getting the amp while I can still enjoy it.


You wrote that on my behalf, did you ! I am also on that boat  [smiley=10.gif]
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #417 - 07/08/22 at 01:10:32
 
Not trying to be a spoiler here but if you can't hear the difference between a 55 and 700 $ tube in this amp then I must ask why? Transparency must be the question I'm pondering.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #418 - 07/08/22 at 03:54:01
 
Tony,

I've owned tube amps and preamps, including Decware, for over 20 years now. My audio experience changed dramatically in 2008 when I acquired a Hickok 600 and I was able to test tubes for myself.

CAJames is correct that calibration is the key; mine was freshly calibrated when I bought it and I got it recalibrated a couple years ago. While absolute readings on any particular tester will vary, once you get a feel for your tester you can definitely know whether tubes you're using or tubes you buy are up to snuff. I've been able to procure some amazing bargains on untested tubes which ended up testing NOS. I've also bought "tested NOS" tubes that on my Hickok turned out to be crap, and the seller wouldn't make good, but my good experiences have way outwayed my bad ones.

Bottom line, if you want to dabble in NOS tubes a tester is invaluable. If you're happy with new production tubes from reputable sellers, just keep a new set of tubes on hand to swap out periodically with your current tubes. Your ears will tell you whether your current tubes have worn out.

David
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #419 - 07/08/22 at 08:22:41
 

David,

Thanks for your thoughtful and thought provoking response. It certainly provided a fuller perspective to consider.

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #420 - 07/08/22 at 20:18:27
 

Quote:
Not trying to be a spoiler here but if you can't hear the difference between a 55 and 700 $ tube in this amp then I must ask why? Transparency must be the question I'm pondering.


I didn't say I couldn't hear a difference, I said the 55 sounds just as good.  Good enough that to get into the meat of the differences I would have to A/B the tubes, which I will in time.  

The answer to your question is likely because this 55 sounds similarly good to the 700.  Transparency of the amp will be quickly decided once people start taking delivery of it so I'll let that issue work itself out in the wash.

I think we can all agree that 700 is overpriced, but with the 5 year warranty and for all the other reasons listed, I think that price is acceptable.

Also, the $55 tube has been researched and is claimed to be better sounding than many of the ultra high dollar Asian 300B tubes on the market.  It's not a random $55 tube by any means.  And as mentioned above, I could order another pair today and when they arrive they might easily suck which was my Plinko illustration.



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #421 - 07/10/22 at 04:24:06
 
Steve,

Nice talking to you the other day.  The conversation was about the 25th Anniversary amp  Now I feel a bit guilty.  Took time away from your work.
But it's now finished???  Lot's of thoughts a opinions on this site.
Regardless of ALL of THIS,  I am so excited for this new 300B amp.  You first said mid-summer.  

Can't Wait.  Will check the website each and every day until it's posted.  And... Going slightly against your normal process and procedures, it would sure be nice to have a couple/or 3 or 4 at the ready, so those of us waiting get purchase right away!!

Can't Wait.  More tension than Christmas at 9yrs old!!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #422 - 07/10/22 at 05:14:49
 

The goal is to build the first production model #001 and compare it against this prototype in the next two months.  If everything goes to plan the production model can debut at DECFEST in October 2022.



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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #423 - 07/11/22 at 02:11:29
 
Hi Steve & wonderful crew,

I'm just wondering---this is kind of a broad question. How much of the 300B sound do you believe is already in the SE84UFO?  

How much of what people would consider lush, warm, inviting, make-you-wanna-listen-all-night-kind of sound? J

Just wondering how much of that is already in the primary number one amplifier sold by Decware??
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #424 - 07/11/22 at 04:10:29
 
Quote:
Posted by: Rightslot      Posted on: Today at 02:11:29
Hi Steve & wonderful crew,

I'm just wondering---this is kind of a broad question. How much of the 300B sound do you believe is already in the SE84UFO?  

How much of what people would consider lush, warm, inviting, make-you-wanna-listen-all-night-kind of sound? J


So my UFOs are overflowing with inviting, make-you-wanna-listen-all-night-kind-of-sound, but not because they are lush and warm. They are detailed and transparent and fast with just the right pinch of liquid tube magic. That is pretty much the "Decware Sound" and it seems like that is what the Sarah is going to have as well, but the liquid tube magic is going to be 300B flavored.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #425 - 07/11/22 at 05:06:48
 
From everything I am reading the Sarah has Rachel DNA.

Steve wrote So to start, I wanted to replicate the SE34I.5/6 amps, which just sonically kicks ass.  I have the tubes in it biased around 42 mA although it goes up and down depending on what tubes you use.  Nevertheless, it's a clean layout that should be able to be duplicated.  : ).  See, this is how you get the Audio Gods attention... it's like when you cat does something cute and you can't resist going over there and messing with it.

Here is that amplifier - my latest masterpiece just prior to starting the 300B amp.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #426 - 07/12/22 at 03:50:53
 

UPDATE JUL 11 2022

The algorithm test...

I have found an extremely reliable way to evaluate the fidelity of an amplifier that takes conscious thinking out of it, ego, expectations, and all the things that can skew results.

I have a track list that I duplicate. It's is quite large, perhaps 5K tracks. During the day and evenings while I work I set the playback to random. The tracks are made up largely of albums. Albums that I haven't heard many or most of the cuts on. So as I random play the goal is to either 1) mark the track as a favorite 2) mark the track not to play ever again 3) leave the track unmarked.

The only thing that is really important is #2)  mark the tracks to never play again. What constitutes this choice is something I don't like about the sound... usually midrange related, that would give me pause if I were to use this track as a demo. I am trying to create a track list of demo material ranging from good to great.

Simply start with a fresh copy of the list when ever you are evaluating amps or tubes or cables, etc., and listen for a week or two. How many times did you mark a track not to hear ever again?  When is it happening...

See this is where it gets interesting. I have been listening to the WE300B now for quite a while.  One of the things I was amazed with right away is the need to mark songs not to hear again diminished. In fact almost never did it happen, at least not for sound quality reasons.

I put in the $55 China tube and you read the results. It had a more present midrange and just an overall really nice tone about it. It was definitely a different sound and I was unsure which I liked better. And since it is just burning in, I am not doing much sweet spot listening because I don't like my soundstage to change while I listen, it wrecks my brain. Instead I just listen casually throughout the space and focus on everything else.

Yesterday I noticed that I was starting to mark quite a few tracks never to hear again because the midrange was getting pinched or graining out or getting almost sharp, sounding exactly like a bad recording.  

So it is changing for sure. Sadly it is heading in the wrong direction, so now I don't know if it is going to come back around with continued use or not.

I am giving the pair a rest and listening to the Cryotone 300B-WC that arrived today!!! They have been playing now for about 10 minutes after warming with no music for an hour. First takeaway is "a fleshy tangibility that seems to push things a notch higher on the real meter."

Remember, at this time I am not interested in A/B evaluations of the different 300B tubes. I am just taking a journey with the amp like a customer would. It's like a float trip down a spring fed river with lots of spontaneity and discovery.  So far the canoe hasn't tipped and it's been a positive experience.

As I write this and listen to Fin Greenall's voice on this new tube, I am also listening to it on the China tube by memory at the same time and doing some A?B comparisons in my mind.  Damn, I'm busted.  Anyway, playing now is a track that is flawless and the other tube is adding grain to the midrange and somewhat pinching it as well as pushing it a bit forward.  So it will be interesting to see where it lands when we put more hours on it.

Now listening to this:



And it is stunning.  I can almost smell the wood.  I haven't heard this particular track on the WE300B, but this is a float trip, the current is strong and you don't go upstream to see how many ways you can miss the rock because you'll never make it to the end.







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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #427 - 07/13/22 at 19:30:26
 
I haven’t seen this mentioned on the thread yet, so I thought I would recommend an excellent “moderately” priced pair of 300B tubes.

For the last few months I’ve been using the Cossor/Linlai WE300B replica (~$550/pair) in my Elekit TU 8600s. Previously I was using the Gold Lions.

From what I’ve been told, this Cossor is identical to the Linlai WE300B replica (and is made by Linlai), which is also identical to the Psvanne WE300B replica. I haven’t compared these, so I can’t verify. However the Cossors are fantastic. In comparison to the Gold Lion, the Cossor has better transparency, timbre, dynamics, separation, bass quality and quantity, etc. for only $200 more than the Gold Lion.

Don’t get me wrong, $550 for a pair of tubes is still expensive. But in the world of 300B tubes, it’s not unreasonable if want to experience the 300B glory, especially when you’re getting into tube quality that can be compared against NOS WE300B. Would be very interested to see how these sound in the Decware.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #428 - 07/16/22 at 06:35:31
 

Thanks for the recommendation, they are actually on my list.

UPDATE JUL 16 2022

As part of todays listening test we go back to prior references.  Tonight the Zen TORII Mono's with KT88's biased at 65-70mA.  The sound is overall tighter. More neutral, perhaps ever so slightly faster.  It's definitely a different sound.  The Sarah WE300B amp has more depth, bass texture, midrange texture, kinder  top end. Imaging is equally good but different. Probably a contest determined by speaker room synergy.  

Anyway, it's like back to my old reference on the House Speakers... and I feel like something is missing in the mid band and low end density area which is hard to believe considering one is 4 watts and one is 60 and the 4 watt is winning at normal listening volumes which is the only thing that actually counts.

This is the first time I have experienced the craving to "put it back" which is hard to believe because you wouldn't believe how good the Zen TORII Mono reference really is.

Also worthy of note is that the ZTPRE is driving the monos fully balanced. !!!

So yea the Sarah 300B sounds just like this picture of Sarah. It has more fun with music than normal. A fitting parallel if you knew Sarah. Many of you have caught her energy on the phone and this is such a fitting tribute to her as she is such a HUGE part of what makes Decware, DECWARE...  Not to mention her mastery over her two brothers , Jake and Josh who both work here and are irreplaceable. She kicked their asses when they were kids and it's no different in the shop, she always wins but at the same time is completely powerless because they just don't care.



I really have no more fears about how this amplifier might compare with the hundreds of other 300B amps on the market. I have explored the range of sounds the tube is capable of and chosen the best recipe to my own ears which have so far never let me down.

I'm pretty excited to manufacture this amplifier.  It has a similar special spot in my heart just like the original Zen Triode amp. It is just so cool that her mother came into my life right after I launched the original Zen Triode amplifier.  Between DeVon's amazing support and her amazing skill sets and ability to pass that along to Sarah I have been more than blessed with the final result and so have all of you. They and their brothers are the real reason Decware as you know it is able to happen. I'm not talking about talking on the phone... both of these women can build Zen Amplifiers better than all of us. Those magical tiny hands and attention to detail. Everyone here is cross trained in almost everything.

And yes, that girl as well as her mother, my wife, can build a Zen amp better than you, even better than myself. Sarah is so neurotic that she is the only one that can build a perfect ZEN HEAD battery operated headphone amp.  

Happy Listening... see you when I get back unless I kill myself trying to waterski on vacation next week. If that happens just know I love you all and Sarah and DeVon can well handle it.





See you when we get back!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #429 - 07/17/22 at 03:25:24
 
Happy vacationing!

Brian
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #430 - 07/17/22 at 04:02:08
 
Thanks for the continued update Steve.  This is turning out to be a great thread following your journey developing the Sarah and I didn’t realize the family connection until your last post!

Have a great vacation!
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #431 - 07/17/22 at 12:04:41
 
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #432 - 07/24/22 at 13:46:56
 
What. .. no Saturday night update! Smiley Steve really IS on vacation.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #433 - 07/24/22 at 15:19:37
 
He might be enjoying it so much to opt for an extension Smiley
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #434 - 07/24/22 at 16:35:45
 
I look forward to all the updates. I'm resigned to a long wait, but these will help me, intriguing me each time.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #435 - 07/26/22 at 04:14:16
 

UPDATE JUL 25 2022

After a nice vacation with the family and grandkids in the fresh air of Minnesota with no listening to music of any kind I came in Today craving a listen to this amplifier but I had to work all day.  And now sadly I'm still tired so I'm calling it an early night.  But with fresh ears and mind I did manage to  fire up the amp with the WE300B tubes and played some of my favorite tracks.  In less than 4 minutes I was able to clearly realize I'm in trouble.  I may well have just done to myself what I did to myself with the SE84UFO25.

My personal SE84UFO25 is not here for direct comparison (on purpose) so I can only speculate how the two amps will compare in a shoot out, but in the end it's probably just going to mean that everyone will simply have to own both.

The balance this amp has is nothing short of stunning.  The imaging, textures, body and transparency are second only to it's resolution.  

Don't worry it will be worth the wait.

Steve : )

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #436 - 07/26/22 at 15:08:48
 
I think those of you who attend Decfest this year are in for a special treat with the 300B Sarah amp taking center stage. Will orders for this special amp increase after the event? I think so.

I hope Western Electric is ramping up production on the tubes to meet demand as well 😁.

HK


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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #437 - 07/26/22 at 15:10:41
 
Quote:
My personal SE84UFO25 is not here for direct comparison (on purpose) so I can only speculate how the two amps will compare in a shoot out, but in the end it's probably just going to mean that everyone will simply have to own both.


What the heck does that mean?

Good to see the time off did you good.
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #438 - 07/26/22 at 15:26:36
 
I think I get it. They're both the top step of a particular stairway to heaven. I'm on the 25th Anniversary UFO stairway right now and they can take me to heaven. All that is missing is a touch of lush magic that I remember hearing in a 300B amp, I could definitely imagine being on that stairway and thinking all that is missing is that razor like insight that the 25th UFO has at its heart. I know I will love the 300B when it's settled into my listening life, and yet I know that these Monoblocks will also still have my heart for that unique propulsion system they have.

Of course not everyone is going to have to have both. That's just Steve's way of saying he has two chart-toppers on his hands I believe.  
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #439 - 07/27/22 at 06:05:59
 
Welcome home, Steve!

Brian
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #440 - 07/27/22 at 18:23:50
 
Such a great thread to read an amp designer developing a new amp. Thank you for sharing.

If I wanted to order a Sarah300b could I get on the waitlist now by ordering a different amp and then changing the order once the new amp is available to order?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #441 - 07/27/22 at 18:31:25
 
ABD I believe some folks have already placed advance orders, best way to find out is to call Sarah in customer service herself.

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #442 - 08/04/22 at 16:51:00
 

UPDATE AUG 4 2022

Wednesday, the first of our three day listening session, has come and gone already.  Randy arrived in the early afternoon and we just decompressed and chatted for a couple hours until around 4:00 PM when we decided to start our listening adventure.  Prior to his arrival, I had a listening appointment where I demo'd my personal SE84UFO25 on the ZF15M, the corner horns and then finally the new HDTSilver8 speakers.

This is the first time I have heard the amplifier since it came back from Don and Roger at Cryotone.  I loaned it to them so they could fine tune their process around the tubes for that amplifier.  Additionally, the entire amplifier was Cryotreated.  During this short demo, I didn't actually really listen to it, I was more trying to demo what 2 watts can do to a first time visitor who had never heard tube gear and was having a hard time wrapping his head around the concept of 2 watts.  His fear was that there would be no bass.  Well, that was a fun demo!  Another Decware customer was created in less than 7 minutes.

Randy and I had a mission to listen to the new Sarah 300B amplifier, and he brought his own speakers and personal 300B amp and a selection of 300B tubes.  But since the HDTSilver8's were still hooked up and playing in the background, driven by my UFO25 and Holo Audio May DAC, we accidentally started to listening to that.  It was only the second time I have listened to the new HDT's since I put them together, and of course also the first time I had actually started to seriously listen to the UFO25.

I don't know about Randy, but I went in there with the thought that we'd listen to these for a few minutes and then haul the stuff in here from Randy's car and get started on our mission.  My guess is he had the same thought.  

Well, interestingly enough, we fell into the music and listened for 8 straight hours without a break until midnight where we shot the shit for another couple hours and went to bed.  Never even thought about listening to the new amp, or even different speakers.  Had no clue what time it was, and frankly it is the fastest 8 hours I think I've ever experienced.  I would have told you we were in there for 3 hours, but walking past the clock on the wall as we went to bed was a rude reminder as it said 2 AM.










So today, we're about to jump back into it a again, but since we've lost an entire day I'm already warming up the 300B to make sure it doesn't happen twice : )


Steve

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #443 - 08/04/22 at 17:20:27
 
Steve, what do you mean by the whole amp being cryotreated ?
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #444 - 08/04/22 at 17:41:29
 
You should behave You’re too used to being on vacation get to work
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #445 - 08/04/22 at 19:02:19
 
Yeah, Joe, there's that. Can't just hit the ground running after time off without over revving something.
Cheesy


I am also very curious about the folded wing baffles you show in that pic with what look to be F15s mounted.

Is this a future plan? Are you selling the plans. Are those yours or Randy's creation?
I was already thinking in this direction, wondering if it was possible and I find you've already done it up proud.

Any info on those to share?

EDIT:
Sorry, it's an illusion and a bit of wishful thinking. I don't see folded baffles anymore.

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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #446 - 08/04/22 at 20:43:54
 
Paid for Wi-Fi on a plane.  First site visited: Decware—yeah Priorities.

Read-up on the development thread.  Looking forward to Steve and Randy getting back on mission from Thursday.

Kamran
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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #447 - 08/04/22 at 21:33:21
 
UPDATE 8-4-2022

We started around 11:00 A.M. today.  We set up Randy's personal baffles featuring the Lii Song Silver 10 driver, and just to tickle the bottom a little bit we used a Lii Song W15 driver driven by a decent sounding plate amp.





This will be our reference set up for the at least today.  This set up is equally mind numbing to what we had going on last night.

Since we have several 300B tubes to explore we are using Randy's amp.  It has no rectifier tube, and no preamp stage, so less tubes, less variables.  Also an amazing sounding amplifier so with that let's begin : )




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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #448 - 08/04/22 at 21:46:19
 


We started with the Takatsuki TA-300Bs what are known to be in the Top three best sounding 300B tubes made. Cost $1700 for the pair.




This tube set a high benchmark in transparency and resolution and speed.  I would say a very honest sounding tube that can sound like whatever the signal is driving it. It has a raw unedited quality dripping with resolution. The tone was neutral.  It was more than impressive with well recorded music. We listened to it for a couple hours.


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Re: DECWARE 300B Amp development thread
Reply #449 - 08/04/22 at 22:21:09
 


Next it was time to listen to the Cryotone 300B-WC. The sound of this tube was instantly different. It had less resolution and less speed. But it had more tone, more body, rounder edges. Almost immediately we switched to a stock pair of JJ-300B and then switched back so we could hear the effect of the Cryotone process. The Cryotone process on this tube adds meat on the bones. The tone in the upper midrange had more glow to it. Tube tube also had more depth to the sound and was a bit more refined. We listened to them for about an hour. We we both rather pleased with the sound. Less analytical, wonderful body and tone. A slightly bloomed midrange. Compared to the Japanese tube it was more relaxed, more forgiving and had more midrange density with a very satisfying amount of detail, not too much not too little. I personally these Cryotone will be liked by the most people, especially those with less than wonderful listening spaces. It has more of the "300B sound" that I think most would be wanting. This tube sells for just under $500 each, and we felt it was easily worth the money. We ended with a sax track that qualified as one of the best sounding sax playback I've ever heard. It was front and center, had body, perfect tone, and lots of density and weight that made it feel real. It was a head shaker.  












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