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Steve's BIG BETSY Project (Read 408539 times)
joespride
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Posts: 54
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1500 - 02/19/21 at 21:41:38
 
"Why yes feel free to use it.
Anything I do anything "questionable" I always say that I'll smoke a turd in hell for that one."

Laughed like hell, I Lie that  ;D

First response on the new page im moving up in the world
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1501 - 02/21/21 at 12:32:34
 
Hi Guys, I am new to this forum. But, have been following since last year. I come from the other end of the spectrum with Maggies and Innnersound, high powered  SS amplification (plural), etc. My son grew up an audiophile. But, when he purchased his first home and was wanting to build out his first system. I suggested that he chose the opposite route and start with high efficiency speakers. He then set out to pick out his speakers, and was about to pull the trigger on them, when we came upon this thread. I woodwork for a hobby and said that I would make him the baffles. So, he ordered the F-15s and I ordered Steve's Z15M plans. I built his with 3/4"/18mm baltic birch (2 layers) and poplar base. They came out really nice. His wife really likes them as well. They sound so musical in both of our systems. Yes, they can handle a lot of clean watts too. I know have a new pair of F-15s, still in the office waiting as I decide on my next build.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1502 - 02/21/21 at 13:45:41
 
Welcome to the madness. I built the ZF15M as well and do love them. I recently bought a pair of the Lii w-15 as well and have been playing with those. The wife likes my test baffle size and appearance over the larger ZF15m these are 33 tall and 21 wide. I am going to sneak in 36 tall and 24 wide. Heres a pic of the test baffles at work  [smiley=biglol.gif]

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latest_test_ob.PNG
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1503 - 02/22/21 at 04:05:36
 

Hi Tim,

Welcome the family!

Steve
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1504 - 02/22/21 at 04:10:43
 
Thanks guys! Once, I get approved (posts). I'll post a couple of pics of them.
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1505 - 02/22/21 at 04:18:09
 
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F-15_Speakers.jpeg
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Donnie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1506 - 02/22/21 at 11:38:12
 
TimM,

IBM sessions and Microsoft Teams, It looks just like my desk top at work!

Your setup looks real nice.
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1507 - 02/22/21 at 12:36:06
 
Hi Donnie,  Don't forget about IDz (formerly RDz). I haven't programmed with these in 1/2 a dozen years or so. That's my sons setup. Now I work vicariously through him. Haha.    ...Tim
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1508 - 02/23/21 at 20:33:58
 
This pic is a better perspective of the size of the baffle and speaker. The specs are because it was starting to rain.
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F-15_Finished.jpeg
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1509 - 09/04/21 at 22:20:37
 
Hi all - I'm about to embark on the Big Betsy OB journey. I've ordered Lii Audio F15's which shouldn't be too far away. I have only read to page 12 of this thread so far, so I hope my questions haven't been answered in the remaining 20 or so pages - I'm considering constructing my baffles out of 40mm thick laminated bamboo panels which are often used for kitchen benchtops (unfortunately I can't include a link yet). Has anyone used this or similar for this purpose? Any gotchas or recommendations?
Cheers, Steve
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1510 - 09/04/21 at 22:57:35
 
I used a Baltic Birch panel made the same way for counter tops etc... mine was a bit thicker at 1.75" but I suspect you will be very happy with the results. Advice is go slow and use a good router and Bit
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1511 - 09/04/21 at 23:23:04
 
Thanks Joespride Wink
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1512 - 09/04/21 at 23:26:58
 
I used hard maple and I remember Steve seemed to think the denser, the better.  I know that bamboo is hard but is it dense?  My impression is that it's not so much.  You will put a LOT of work into these so make sure you have the best material to start.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Posts: 15
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1513 - 09/05/21 at 03:19:25
 
Thanks Archie - laminated bamboo panels appear to range from 750 - 1200 kg/m3 depending on construction methods, compared with maple at 620 - 750 kg/m3, so presumably lack of density is not an issue. It's probably also my most cost-effective option, because I am limited to handyman tools these days (plunge saw, router, etc). Is there any consensus regarding whether to mount the driver (F15 in my case) on the front or rear of the baffle? Recessed or surface-mount? What size should the cutout be for a snug fit?  Should I round over the opposing edge of the mounting cutout, and by how much? Any other guidelines I should know about (I'm hoping to have the baffles well underway by the time the drivers arrive Wink )  Thanks so much for this resource, and for your advice!
Cheers
Steve
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1514 - 09/05/21 at 06:38:21
 
I mounted my drivers on the front.  That was how it was being done when I made mine.  I actually prefer the look and you don't have to worry quite so much about a perfect cut.  I radiused the back side.  If you do a front mount you'll want the drivers in hand to make sure the spider clears the hole while leaving the maximum for the screws to grab.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1515 - 09/05/21 at 08:52:16
 
Excellent - thanks Archie!
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1516 - 09/06/21 at 23:09:23
 
I haven't quite decided whether to do the large or medium ZF15's. I would like the sound of the large with the slightly more compact dimensions of the medium. This is probably a question for Steve, but all opinions are welcome - would it affect the sound much if I combined the height of the large with the width of the medium? I currently have Maggie 1.7s which stand about 168cm (66 inches) high by 50cm (20 inches) wide. So I can accommodate the height of the ZF15L but I would prefer to trim the width maybe down to the width of the ZF15M (from 32' down to 29").
Is it possible to say what the likely effect would be? Would it sound somewhere between the large and the mid? Or is it just a case of suck it and see? Or should I just go with the mids because they are a relatively known quantity (the main variables being the thickness and the density of the panels) ?
Cheers
Steve
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1517 - 09/06/21 at 23:25:45
 
Steve,

Steve D "intuited" the Big Betsy.  He basically scaled up Randy's Betsy baffle for the bigger driver.  So there isn't anything necessarily magic about the dimensions.  That said, I don't think 3 inches off of the width would be noticeable physically but it could be aurally.  No doubt these are big and imposing but if you have the room they look kind of cool.  The more you change the design, the more you'll wonder if you're getting the full effect.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Posts: 54
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1518 - 09/07/21 at 01:04:22
 
I think the biggest difference will be Bass, That said I built the medium and Bass in my room was superb, 13 X 16, I have built smaller baffles and the overall sound quality of the F-15 stays, Bass is what I mainly notice lacking the smaller the baffle goes
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1519 - 09/07/21 at 01:38:19
 
You're right Archie - the less room for doubt the better.
Do you have the plan for the  ZF15L? I see you can purchase one for the ZF15M, but not the L?
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1520 - 09/07/21 at 01:47:55
 
The specs are buried in the thread.  I know it's 42 inches high.  Steve mentions the width somewhere and I think Donnie made a drawing.  Donnie's drawing gets you close but search Steve's post for the numbers he used.  The hole location is called out somewhere as well.  My baffles are a tad narrow as I followed a stated radius that turned out to be inaccurate.  Even the handle location is somewhere.  I think it's 3 inches down.  I did a different design for my base since I didn't care for Steve's aesthetics but I then worried that I may have changed the sound so I stiffened the bottom edge and added mass with lead shot.  That's why I caution against design changes -- they bread uncertainty!   Cheesy
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1521 - 09/07/21 at 01:51:00
 
@Joespride - do you use subs with your ZF15M's? I have a couple of sealed subs that I use with my Maggies, and I'm prepared to supplement the BB's bass with them if necessary. Do you think the difference in bass between the large and the mids, if running subs with them, is likely to be significant?
I know these are very subjective evaluations, but then so are most opinions in the hifi world  :)
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1522 - 09/20/21 at 01:30:44
 
Hi folks - I built these last week, based on Steve's Big Betsy (thanks Steve!). I used 40mm bamboo panel which was very easy to work with, if you don't count routing with a cheapo router Wink

www.dropbox.com/sh/comqfy0vpgf1boy/AADdhfMVXIuNLixxQ1GPNM2Fa?dl=0

I'm still fine-tuning my DEQX DSP but they sound great, and at 97db sensitivity they are very easy to drive - I think the Maggies' days are numbered, which is a bit of a shame because they've been wonderful, but moving into tubes has kind of necessitated finding an easier to drive alternative
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1523 - 09/20/21 at 06:23:47
 
Those look great!  Very impressive.  Did you mount them vertically?  If so, try a backward tilt of about 7 1/2 degrees and see what you think.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Posts: 15
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1524 - 09/21/21 at 04:41:43
 
Thanks Archie - I'm finding about 5 degrees works for me. It definitely changes the sound..I need to live with it for a while to see if I prefer it Wink
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1525 - 09/21/21 at 06:45:18
 
For me, some of the original magic had worn off and tilting them back brought it back.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1526 - 09/21/21 at 10:16:05
 
Nice..a cheap and easy upgrade.. the kind I like Wink
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1527 - 09/21/21 at 14:38:38
 
Nice job on the baffles.  I have always wanted to make some bamboo baffles since I heard some at Axpona.  Where did you source your bamboo?
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Anniversary Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Zen Styx Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speaker
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1528 - 09/21/21 at 19:35:27
 
There are numerous companies importing bamboo products in New Zealand. I used Plantation Bamboo Ltd. I imagine that a google search should find many options where you live. I used the more expensive, higher density, darker coloured product, and used Danish oil as a finish. Couldn't be easier Wink
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will
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1529 - 09/21/21 at 20:43:25
 
Palamino, Not just the same, but I saw some 44mm bamboo slabs at Lowes I have been considering.
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All Modified: Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/PureM>Kitsune Singxer/Gustard x20pro or NOS Tranquility DAC; CSP3, ZRock2, Torii IV, HR1, DIY ZBIT; Cables DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker; Feet- Archie's platform, alum/ball bearing, SR+
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Donnie
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Posts: 1946
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1530 - 09/21/21 at 22:44:05
 
I was just shopping for bamboo plywood without much luck either.
Everything on line just didn't seem to be what I was looking for and quite frankly, way too expensive.

Yeah, I'd pay maybe $100 for a 4'X8" sheet, but no way at $400+.
Well, maybe if I was really enthused about it, but I'm not(yet).
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1531 - 09/21/21 at 23:15:21
 
Yes it wasn't cheap - I paid about $700 NZ delivered (about $450 US) but if you factor in planing, thicknessing, glueing up, etc it balances out somewhat. But no - definitely not a budget option Wink

(That was for an 8'x4'x40mm sheet - did you like the mixed units? Wink )
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will
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1532 - 09/22/21 at 00:05:46
 
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All Modified: Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/PureM>Kitsune Singxer/Gustard x20pro or NOS Tranquility DAC; CSP3, ZRock2, Torii IV, HR1, DIY ZBIT; Cables DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker; Feet- Archie's platform, alum/ball bearing, SR+
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