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Steve's BIG BETSY Project (Read 653537 times)
joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1500 - 02/19/21 at 21:41:38
 
"Why yes feel free to use it.
Anything I do anything "questionable" I always say that I'll smoke a turd in hell for that one."

Laughed like hell, I Lie that †;D

First response on the new page im moving up in the world
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1501 - 02/21/21 at 12:32:34
 
Hi Guys, I am new to this forum. But, have been following since last year. I come from the other end of the spectrum with Maggies and Innnersound, high powered  SS amplification (plural), etc. My son grew up an audiophile. But, when he purchased his first home and was wanting to build out his first system. I suggested that he chose the opposite route and start with high efficiency speakers. He then set out to pick out his speakers, and was about to pull the trigger on them, when we came upon this thread. I woodwork for a hobby and said that I would make him the baffles. So, he ordered the F-15s and I ordered Steve's Z15M plans. I built his with 3/4"/18mm baltic birch (2 layers) and poplar base. They came out really nice. His wife really likes them as well. They sound so musical in both of our systems. Yes, they can handle a lot of clean watts too. I know have a new pair of F-15s, still in the office waiting as I decide on my next build.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1502 - 02/21/21 at 13:45:41
 
Welcome to the madness. I built the ZF15M as well and do love them. I recently bought a pair of the Lii w-15 as well and have been playing with those. The wife likes my test baffle size and appearance over the larger ZF15m these are 33 tall and 21 wide. I am going to sneak in 36 tall and 24 wide. Heres a pic of the test baffles at work †[smiley=biglol.gif]

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latest_test_ob.PNG
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1503 - 02/22/21 at 04:05:36
 

Hi Tim,

Welcome the family!

Steve
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1504 - 02/22/21 at 04:10:43
 
Thanks guys! Once, I get approved (posts). I'll post a couple of pics of them.
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1505 - 02/22/21 at 04:18:09
 
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F-15_Speakers.jpeg
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Donnie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1506 - 02/22/21 at 11:38:12
 
TimM,

IBM sessions and Microsoft Teams, It looks just like my desk top at work!

Your setup looks real nice.
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1507 - 02/22/21 at 12:36:06
 
Hi Donnie,  Don't forget about IDz (formerly RDz). I haven't programmed with these in 1/2 a dozen years or so. That's my sons setup. Now I work vicariously through him. Haha.    ...Tim
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TimM
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1508 - 02/23/21 at 20:33:58
 
This pic is a better perspective of the size of the baffle and speaker. The specs are because it was starting to rain.
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F-15_Finished.jpeg
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1509 - 09/04/21 at 22:20:37
 
Hi all - I'm about to embark on the Big Betsy OB journey. I've ordered Lii Audio F15's which shouldn't be too far away. I have only read to page 12 of this thread so far, so I hope my questions haven't been answered in the remaining 20 or so pages - I'm considering constructing my baffles out of 40mm thick laminated bamboo panels which are often used for kitchen benchtops (unfortunately I can't include a link yet). Has anyone used this or similar for this purpose? Any gotchas or recommendations?
Cheers, Steve
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1510 - 09/04/21 at 22:57:35
 
I used a Baltic Birch panel made the same way for counter tops etc... mine was a bit thicker at 1.75" but I suspect you will be very happy with the results. Advice is go slow and use a good router and Bit
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1511 - 09/04/21 at 23:23:04
 
Thanks Joespride Wink
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1512 - 09/04/21 at 23:26:58
 
I used hard maple and I remember Steve seemed to think the denser, the better.  I know that bamboo is hard but is it dense?  My impression is that it's not so much.  You will put a LOT of work into these so make sure you have the best material to start.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1513 - 09/05/21 at 03:19:25
 
Thanks Archie - laminated bamboo panels appear to range from 750 - 1200 kg/m3 depending on construction methods, compared with maple at 620 - 750 kg/m3, so presumably lack of density is not an issue. It's probably also my most cost-effective option, because I am limited to handyman tools these days (plunge saw, router, etc). Is there any consensus regarding whether to mount the driver (F15 in my case) on the front or rear of the baffle? Recessed or surface-mount? What size should the cutout be for a snug fit?  Should I round over the opposing edge of the mounting cutout, and by how much? Any other guidelines I should know about (I'm hoping to have the baffles well underway by the time the drivers arrive Wink )  Thanks so much for this resource, and for your advice!
Cheers
Steve
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1514 - 09/05/21 at 06:38:21
 
I mounted my drivers on the front. †That was how it was being done when I made mine. †I actually prefer the look and you don't have to worry quite so much about a perfect cut. †I radiused the back side. †If you do a front mount you'll want the drivers in hand to make sure the spider clears the hole while leaving the maximum for the screws to grab.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1515 - 09/05/21 at 08:52:16
 
Excellent - thanks Archie!
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1516 - 09/06/21 at 23:09:23
 
I haven't quite decided whether to do the large or medium ZF15's. I would like the sound of the large with the slightly more compact dimensions of the medium. This is probably a question for Steve, but all opinions are welcome - would it affect the sound much if I combined the height of the large with the width of the medium? I currently have Maggie 1.7s which stand about 168cm (66 inches) high by 50cm (20 inches) wide. So I can accommodate the height of the ZF15L but I would prefer to trim the width maybe down to the width of the ZF15M (from 32' down to 29").
Is it possible to say what the likely effect would be? Would it sound somewhere between the large and the mid? Or is it just a case of suck it and see? Or should I just go with the mids because they are a relatively known quantity (the main variables being the thickness and the density of the panels) ?
Cheers
Steve
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1517 - 09/06/21 at 23:25:45
 
Steve,

Steve D "intuited" the Big Betsy.  He basically scaled up Randy's Betsy baffle for the bigger driver.  So there isn't anything necessarily magic about the dimensions.  That said, I don't think 3 inches off of the width would be noticeable physically but it could be aurally.  No doubt these are big and imposing but if you have the room they look kind of cool.  The more you change the design, the more you'll wonder if you're getting the full effect.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1518 - 09/07/21 at 01:04:22
 
I think the biggest difference will be Bass, That said I built the medium and Bass in my room was superb, 13 X 16, I have built smaller baffles and the overall sound quality of the F-15 stays, Bass is what I mainly notice lacking the smaller the baffle goes
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1519 - 09/07/21 at 01:38:19
 
You're right Archie - the less room for doubt the better.
Do you have the plan for the  ZF15L? I see you can purchase one for the ZF15M, but not the L?
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1520 - 09/07/21 at 01:47:55
 
The specs are buried in the thread. †I know it's 42 inches high. †Steve mentions the width somewhere and I think Donnie made a drawing. †Donnie's drawing gets you close but search Steve's post for the numbers he used. †The hole location is called out somewhere as well. †My baffles are a tad narrow as I followed a stated radius that turned out to be inaccurate. †Even the handle location is somewhere. †I think it's 3 inches down. †I did a different design for my base since I didn't care for Steve's aesthetics but I then worried that I may have changed the sound so I stiffened the bottom edge and added mass with lead shot. †That's why I caution against design changes -- they bread uncertainty! † Cheesy
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1521 - 09/07/21 at 01:51:00
 
@Joespride - do you use subs with your ZF15M's? I have a couple of sealed subs that I use with my Maggies, and I'm prepared to supplement the BB's bass with them if necessary. Do you think the difference in bass between the large and the mids, if running subs with them, is likely to be significant?
I know these are very subjective evaluations, but then so are most opinions in the hifi world  :)
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1522 - 09/20/21 at 01:30:44
 
Hi folks - I built these last week, based on Steve's Big Betsy (thanks Steve!). I used 40mm bamboo panel which was very easy to work with, if you don't count routing with a cheapo router Wink

www.dropbox.com/sh/comqfy0vpgf1boy/AADdhfMVXIuNLixxQ1GPNM2Fa?dl=0

I'm still fine-tuning my DEQX DSP but they sound great, and at 97db sensitivity they are very easy to drive - I think the Maggies' days are numbered, which is a bit of a shame because they've been wonderful, but moving into tubes has kind of necessitated finding an easier to drive alternative
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1523 - 09/20/21 at 06:23:47
 
Those look great!  Very impressive.  Did you mount them vertically?  If so, try a backward tilt of about 7 1/2 degrees and see what you think.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1524 - 09/21/21 at 04:41:43
 
Thanks Archie - I'm finding about 5 degrees works for me. It definitely changes the sound..I need to live with it for a while to see if I prefer it Wink
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1525 - 09/21/21 at 06:45:18
 
For me, some of the original magic had worn off and tilting them back brought it back.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1526 - 09/21/21 at 10:16:05
 
Nice..a cheap and easy upgrade.. the kind I like Wink
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1527 - 09/21/21 at 14:38:38
 
Nice job on the baffles.  I have always wanted to make some bamboo baffles since I heard some at Axpona.  Where did you source your bamboo?
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1528 - 09/21/21 at 19:35:27
 
There are numerous companies importing bamboo products in New Zealand. I used Plantation Bamboo Ltd. I imagine that a google search should find many options where you live. I used the more expensive, higher density, darker coloured product, and used Danish oil as a finish. Couldn't be easier Wink
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will
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1529 - 09/21/21 at 20:43:25
 
Palamino, Not just the same, but I saw some 44mm bamboo slabs at Lowes I have been considering.
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All Modified: PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra>Kitsune Singxer/Gustardx20pro or NOS Tranquility; CSP3, ZRock2, Torii IV, HR1, DIY ZBIT; 1 Pi PC, DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker; Feet- Archie's platform, alum/ball bearing, SR+
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Donnie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1530 - 09/21/21 at 22:44:05
 
I was just shopping for bamboo plywood without much luck either.
Everything on line just didn't seem to be what I was looking for and quite frankly, way too expensive.

Yeah, I'd pay maybe $100 for a 4'X8" sheet, but no way at $400+.
Well, maybe if I was really enthused about it, but I'm not(yet).
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Steviewunda
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1531 - 09/21/21 at 23:15:21
 
Yes it wasn't cheap - I paid about $700 NZ delivered (about $450 US) but if you factor in planing, thicknessing, glueing up, etc it balances out somewhat. But no - definitely not a budget option Wink

(That was for an 8'x4'x40mm sheet - did you like the mixed units? Wink )
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will
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1532 - 09/22/21 at 00:05:46
 
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All Modified: PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra>Kitsune Singxer/Gustardx20pro or NOS Tranquility; CSP3, ZRock2, Torii IV, HR1, DIY ZBIT; 1 Pi PC, DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker; Feet- Archie's platform, alum/ball bearing, SR+
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1533 - 11/09/21 at 00:12:14
 
Looks like the ZEN / Lii F-15 are finally getting some press they deserve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ7HznfA0YA&ab_channel=AndrewRobinson


Couple Caveats though: 1. you can use them in a smaller room, Mine is 13 X 16, and 2 Bass throw a PP 30ish watts at them and bass improves GREATLY
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Emmett123
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1534 - 11/12/21 at 21:06:23
 
I recently got some Lii Audio F15 full range drivers. I intend to make some proper baffles from hardwood in the future. But in the meantime I fashioned some some 3/4 inch plywood sheets to hold them and 'break in' the drivers. This is the first time trying full range speakers and open baffles.

I notice something about the sound that is quite annoying.

I am struck how a lot of tracks now sound very different, with instruments seeming to disappear or are playing in a different room of the studio than the rest of the band. Example the harpiscord jangling in the left channel of Van Morrison's Cyprus Avenue is very faint, almost not there, very recessed.  Or the lead guitar on Neil Young's Unknown Legend from Harvest Moon, which is like a distance echo. Again Bob Dylan's voice on Queen Jane Approx is fantastic but the rest of the band seem to be recording room next door. This from a mint copy MFSL vinyl of Highway.

This very off putting. Is there something very easily explained going wrong? I am delighted with the sound of Stan Getz's sax on the Girl from Ipanema. Its the best I ever heard. Jazz albums seem to be working OK

I don't know why this might happening. I am thinking that this is something to do with my temporary plywood holders? There is about 3/4 of an inch of ply baffle to the left and right and to the top of each driver. I am now reading about cancellation and think this could be an issue. Would wider baffles help return the full sound. Might it also have to with footprint of the speaker? I simply slotted a cut-off 3/4 inch into the baffle to create a + footprint? I understand that having a more substantial footprint would lend more bass but would it also contribute to bringing out these recessed instruments?

I have checked that the wires to and from the amp are working. The amp is a tube amp that can drive the speaker to a very loud volume. I dont think the problem comes from this area.

I would appreciate any comments before I start into making the heavy and more final baffles Smiley
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Lin
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1535 - 11/12/21 at 21:19:04
 
How far out from the wall are they?
Do you have a solid center image?
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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1536 - 11/12/21 at 21:32:17
 
If your Baffles are indeed only 16.5 inches wide, Then YES that will affect the sound. and you need to be at least 3 feet off the front wall. Also understand the Lii does not accentuate so much,  it is pretty much brutally honest. What you feed it.  is what you get. IOW... A "POOR" Recording / mastering will sound "POOR" there will be no sugar coating
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Emmett123
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1537 - 11/12/21 at 23:18:44
 
The speakers are out about 3ft from the wall. On some recordings the sound is brilliant. PF's 'Shine On...' was the best I heard. The music hanging in the air between the speakers, like they were not there at all. Or Dave Brubeck sound stage extending beyond the outside width of the speakers. Stan Getz sax on 'Girl from...' is that holographic sound that people talk about. I understand that the drivers could show up the weaknesses in the original recordings but having heard the same vinyl on cabinet speakers I know that the information is in the recording.

The ply sheets I used for holding the drivers was a first go. I am open to playing around with them. The inspiration for them came from this site;[ GlowintheDark Audio. com Lif15 ][Sorry I cannot post links]My version lacked the wings supports. I may try adding similar wings to extend the baffle and increase front/back separation. I note from this guy's final version of the speakers he left about 8 or 9 inches all around the driver.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1538 - 11/13/21 at 00:22:43
 
Almost all of the experience on this Forum with the F15s are in the barrel baffle made by or inspired by Randy. †The first line of this massive thread, started by Steve reads:

Quote:
Inspired by Caintuck Audio's Randy Rash and his stunning Betsy Open-Baffle design, I decided my first truly serious project in my new wood shop would be to build a giant pair of Betsy Open Baffle loudspeakers.


What you are reporting is a first as far as I can remember. †Unless your F15 drivers are somehow faulty, build a proper set of baffles before worrying about how they sound. †BTW, mine sounded fantastic right out of the box with no break-in.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Lin
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1539 - 11/13/21 at 00:36:46
 
Try pulling them out even more and tape cardboard to the baffle to make it bigger if you can.
Have you tried different listening positions?

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joespride
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1540 - 12/03/21 at 13:57:05
 
Hey Steve, I sure hope you and Randy knew about this. I think Decware and Caintuck had a lot to do with the success of the Lii Drivers here in the US. I would hate to think that they took advantage of you and Randy's hard work

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003631443565.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0....
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JBzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1541 - 12/03/21 at 15:36:53
 
Close but no cigar! F18's mounted on plywood. Brings to mind you get what you pay for!

John
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBIT>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Bronze>JVC QL-F4>ZP3>Isolation-AC filtering-Room treatment. Otari MX5050B2.
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Shomeiía
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1542 - 01/25/22 at 12:48:22
 
Hey TimM,

Is that a Reisong in the background?  How does the 15M sound with it?  I am in the process of moding one.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1543 - 01/25/22 at 13:27:22
 
Iím new here but not to audio or to woodworking.  Iíve now read through all 31 pages (phew!).  Thanks so much to Randy, Steve, and the all the rest who have built their own versions of Randyís creation and posted their results.

Some posts have touched on my questions but not in any depth; Iím hoping that there is still more info/help out there to mine! As you will see from my questions, Randy and Steve might be in the best position to answer my questions.

(BTW, my room is very wide but not very deep. Setting up a listening position will be ďinterestingĒ.)

I love base but also am devoted to transparency and detail.  I ordered a pair of the new Silver-10ís; should be here any day.  Iím planning to build a ZC10M baffle or maybe one slightly scaled down like genoís. Iím assuming I will want to augment the base and will decide between a ZRock or a 15W in a smaller baffle after the mainís are built.  May build the sub while waiting for the ZRock.  

Question 1: Anyone have experience with the Liver-10ís?

Question 2: Anyone  hhav experience with the 15W?

Iíd love to make the bafffles out of live edge slab. (Iíve build numerous projects with live edge slabs before.) Yes, a blued up panel can be more stable but my source for slabs (Berkshireproducts.com) dries and sands them very well. In my experience they have been very stable. And very beautiful.

Question 3: has anyone tested the theory that building the baffles from boards of different widths helps the sound (perhaps by breaking up standing waves)?

Question 4: has anyone tested the theory that building the baffles from different species helps the sound?

This brings up the question of which species of wood to use.

Iím guessing that the wood characteristics that matter most are the A) specific gravity, B) Elastic Modulus, and C) Janka hardness. These data are available at

]wood-database.com[

Iím intrigued that there is an inverse relationship between the Elastic Modulus and a materials damping. Seems to me that the effect of this measure on the baffles might be very important and best determined empirically.

Steve, Randy, you have built and offer baffles in a viariety of woods. The characteristics of the woods you offer differ greatly. Have you compared baffles made from poplar (SG 0.4; EM 10.9; JH 540) to one made from Wenge (SG 0.72; EM 17.6; JH 1930)?

I would love to build baffles from 2 inch think slabs of English Elm. Berkshire has many beautiful slabs and the results would be stunning. My concern is that it has an elastic modulus of 7.1. So,

Question 5: although there are numerous comments about avoiding building baffles from softwoods, has anyone tried it? If not, I might be tempted to do so (wold be relatively inexpensive and an easier build) but I would have a hardwood baffle to compare it to.

And finally:

Question 6: any thoughts about using a 2 inch thick slab of English Elm with a relatively low EM?

BTW, I am clearly only going to make these for myself; I just find the questions interesting. (Iím a scientist if you havenít guessed that already.) I also donít have unlimited funds and a nice live-edge slab is not inexpensive so I donít want to build more than one. (Unless Randy or Steve are so interested in getting systematic answer to some of these questions).

Thanks so much for any wisdom and knowledge you can provide. I will; of course, share my experience as it develops.

G
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Shomeiía
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1544 - 01/27/22 at 14:28:34
 
Steve,

The more I delve into this, the more I come back to your comment that the baffles act as a soundboard. You have also written that mixing woods in the baffle decreases sound wave propagation resulting in less trouble from standing waves.

Iím wondering if you could optimize the sound of the Z15L and Z15M by choice and mix of woods. For example, what would it sound like with a baffle made from Sitka Spruce? When mixing boards in the baffle should one deliberately choose those with different impedances?

Any thoughts?  i donít have the time or resources for more than one or two experiments!

https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.3732/ajb.93.10.1439
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Shomeiía
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1545 - 02/15/22 at 04:14:14
 
My first ďBetsy sizedĒ baffles holding Silver 10ís are built. Iím playing with placement, breaking them in, etc. Will be posting more about my odessey and experiments as I make progress.

For now a question: does anyone have experience with the Lii F-18? Very impressive on paperÖ
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1546 - 02/15/22 at 06:26:11
 
Quote:
For now a question: does anyone have experience with the Lii F-18? Very impressive on paperÖ


Search the Forum. †Steve was playing around with the F18s. †I asked him about them versus the F15 and he said that unless I was planning on playing very loud most of the time, the F15s are preferable.  I don't recall if he said anything about the Silver 10s in comparison.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Shomeiía
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1547 - 02/17/22 at 15:15:39
 
Thanks.  Iím playing with the Silver 10ís in Betsy sized baffles for now.  Great top end though a bit bright; using Roon I find a high shelf filter at ~1 kHz down 3 db or so improves the sound.  This may vary when bass is added and/or baffle size is changed.  Weíll see. Also, I donít see how these can be run full range in an OB. Definitely has issues when tying to make low base.  QTs of the crystal wasnít that much higher. So, despite the (understandable) desire to avoid crossovers, I think adding a base unit and a low pass filter might make a big difference.  Just riffing here; Iíve ordered the Dayton 100W plate amp and the w-15 so I will be trying this out.

The baffles are (unfinished for now) Sassafras. Very nice. I will be comparing these to same-sized poplar. I will post the thinking behind this and the results later.

Iíd welcome all input.
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hazmania
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1548 - 03/07/22 at 20:51:45
 
Just finished my pair! I used a combination of lag bolts and Kreg screws since I don't worry about assembly/disassembly. They sound great already but Zen amp on order and will be even better. I did need to tilt them back a bit to bring up the soundstage in my smallish room. Does anyone have a formula for a proper riser?
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hazmania
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1549 - 03/07/22 at 20:55:02
 
Will post pictures after I meet my 2 post minimum if anyone is interested.
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