It will be interested to hear what options will work best. I’m also interested in those 5AR models with the soft start. Doubt they sound as good at the 274B. And I have a feeling that WE will eventually release a 274B as their second tube, as that is what Takasuki released second, but I’d hope that they would uprate it as well.

I’ve written to Sue (from Sophia Electric) about the compatibility of the original Aqua 274B (lighter blue) with Sarah 300B.  Let’s see what she says.

Hmm, must have missed that then.  Thanks for taking one for the team—knowing that and still taking that chance.  I am going to reevaluate my rectifier plans.

Lon:

It's definitely starting to sound really darned good. I'm not missing my Monoblocks this morning.

I know it will take time, but that report says a lot. Enjoy the music AND the amp.

Nice! Happy day.

One more little update: I went through what I thought were safe rectifiers to roll into the amp and came up with some favorites: It's a close match between two Amperex rectifiers: a 5AR4, and a 5R4WGY. (I think the 5R4 should be safe). They both sound very similar though the latter may have the edge on "body.") Next is an RCA 5U4GB which is a bit warmer but really nice in this amp. And finally there's a NOS Chinese 5Z3PA that Sophia Electric sells and said was one to use instead of the 274B Aqua. I didn't like how this sounded in the CSP3 or the Taboo Mk IV but it did sound nice in the SEWE300B. Not as nice as the above BUT it does not have many hours on it. . . .

And one final note: I looked and saw I had 19 ceramic fuses I could use if a fuse blew in the amp and I decided to try the very same 274B Aqua and risk five minutes replacing a fuse. So the Aqua was still alive. . .it arced. .. and then powered up. No fuse action. I let it play for a few minutes. It did sound good. But it didn't sound noticeably better than the two Amperex or the RCA above. . .so I shut it down, curiosity assuaged. I may revisit this later, but the fact that it arcs means I shouldn't use THAT tube.

Thanks Kam. I'll put the new Aqua II on my wish list. I'll probably try one in the future, after I have the SEWE300B all seasoned and dialed in and free up some dollars. I'll bet it's a really good rectifier.

I think choosing to go with these Sophia Electric 300B tubes was a good idea--they are sounding better and better, the whole complement is. One day I'll decide between either the Wathen cryo'd JJ 300Bs or the Western Electric, but with the quality sound I am getting now and foresee around the bend there is no hurry (and that's good as there is no cash--my whole financial world turned upside down when my wife walked off her job and decided to retire 3 years earlier than she had planned; my monthly expenses have now nearly tripled!)

Steve's process I remember as a paraphrase of "Wax on, Wax off"--Five hours of play, and them at least five hours off and cooling--repeated five times.

Looks like it is a 47uF F&T electrolytic with a 0.33uF Miflex bypass cap. So, yah that answers my question. Definitely going to be wanting to run the Aqua II or 5AR4 or 5U4.

Ah right. Let me fix that so I don't confuse anybody. Thanks Lon!

Hey so have you noticed a different illumination color within a VR type between brands, or between types? I'm really curious if any have any interesting colors.

Junker. I think the rectifier cap is the Sprague combination set, several caps making one. So first cap on the right of this internal pic I found on my computer. I did not dig through the thread to find out, and can't tell what value the yellow ones are, but guess they are pretty low value "bypasses" more for sound than value. Also can't tell from this pic, but if the Sprague are wired in series, likely the total value would be notably lower than 8uF. I am guessing this might be the case since I think I recall Steve going for a quite low value??? If in parallel, it would double the seen values... so 16 uF + whatever the yellow ones add. Either way much lower than 47, and if you need to get specific, might need to read the write up wherever the sprague caps are mentioned. If you find the exact value, please let us know.

Right, guessing it will not be a lot further than the pic you grabbed since that looks like it could be the a beginning of wiring the power supply caps.

I wish the three year wait currently WERE a myth. Hard to think of that. This wait was about 21 months.

Thanks DD. It is a gas to have this to explore and I'm getting my wish: it's almost at the stage where I can just listen to things as you have done without too much futzing. And man the sound was worth waiting for.

Thanks HK. I think my initial tube-rolling has hit a peak that I will let simmer as the amp seasons. I'm getting great sound that seems to show me I'm on the right track with my choices. And I'll spare the forums post after post for a spell until there's a change or an important aspect to report. Then when I feel I have a good handle on it all I'll report a concise review.

Happy as heck so far!

Tube complement decided on for now:

1 each Amperex 6085
2 each Russian red-tipped 6N6P
3 each Mullard 75C1
1 each Amperex 5R4WGY
2 each Sophia Electric Classic 300B

I made one change to the driver tubes: I put the Amperex Holland 7308 back in and got some interesting "dimensisonal" characteristics plus some warmth I like.

I made two moves with the voltage regulation tubes. First I went to all 75C1 and renjoyed that configuration but as it settled in it became a bit sterile. Then I moved to all 0A2 and really enjoyed the lush presentation and warmth. . . but the bass was not tight enough, my one niggling bit about that combo. So I remember Steve mentioning a 75C1 and two 0A2 as being a favored combo, went to that and man, it's just right. I am hopefully going to leave that as the voltage regulation trio for a spell.

Present combo:

1 each Amperex 6085
2 each Amperex Holland 7308
1 each Mullard 75C1
2 each Sylvania (supposedly cryo'd) 0A2
1 each Amperex 5R4WGY
2 each Sophia Electric Classic 300B

Lon,

I love it that over years your adapting to treble sensitivity, and me to low bass sensitivity, seems we are left with understanding tubes very similarly...preferring, respecting and using a lot of the same tubes for the same reasons. Good tubes, and always the musician thing, where for some of us, having got sucked into listening pretty deeply to the instruments for a long time, seems that can amp up perception and discernment. But still, pretty fun to think about, considering different sensitivities, and the vast complexity of different systems and rooms, especially when the subtle stuff is needed in all the balances. Yet, all and all, seems that we are hearing and integrating tubes similarly in different rooms and systems, while also using complex tube sets when looked at across pre sections and amps.

I guess it must be to do with our adapting to our sensitivities in ways that balance across audio parameters. And perhaps as much, I think for you and I, our tuning style of digging until more recordings sound great and without "dumbing things down for great recordings" is a pretty vast but accurate baseline.

As usual, I likely would gravitate a touch more open/fast, a little less darkness to the "warm" but maybe not...not knowing the Sophia Classic 300B sound. In that Sofia direction, and enjoying your touching on reviewing tubes as you explore your new amp, this got me onto thinking that our slightly divergent experience with the Sophia Aqua 274B might be a good illustration of how system/room context can change a really good tube preference, and even sharing the luxury of a huge variety of similar preferred tuning tubes.

Since so much of my amp work has been to open space and fine detail with more complete resolution with natural speed and spectral balances... Getting that to happen musically was not a shoe-in, for me taking a lot of slow and cumulative effort. But the underlying fundamental seems pretty straight up..... pull resolution in balance everywhere, which is basically both increasing resolution while resolving smearing. Associated, the double edge part, if our "conditioned" sense of "detail" allows us to get really close, but without more fully resolving fine detail in space, we don't know it is not there.

Anyway, seems my system is probably a bit more of a "magnifying glass," and yours, by design, resolving and refined in all areas, but with a bit more warmth objective... likely more "forgiving."  

This probably explains in part my never having fully gotten the Sophia Aqua 274B in my amps. Whereas, in my 300B it is great. The amp still needs more open resolution and speeding up for me, but it is coming pretty easily and makes me think it doubtful that the ways this amp was tuned previously could be called strictly old school 300B. And from when I got it until now, now being more open from my work, the Sophia Aqua247B is one of the "best rectifiers" I have had in that amp to date (mine are mostly NOS and lots of them).

Makes me think about designing tubes for 300Bs and other "big power tubes" used in SE settings, perhaps having some reality. And why not, the levels of tuning we can explore these days. In my 300B these 274Bs have excellent open and complex ranges and balances, and do it all with an interesting very grounded and solid feel, while nudging warmth with great space and fine detail across the spectrum...not dulling "warmth." In my tuned up Torii and CSP3, the same tube did most all this, but did not have that synced in grounded feeling that makes them disappear into music like this.

I do have two of them for the 300B though, and glad Kamran got more thoughts from Sue at Sophia, finding out that for Steve's 300B one of their previous version 274B Aquas was questionable due to current constraints. I am too tight so far to buy them new anyway with so many killer NOS rectifiers, but I guess I will keep an eye out for used new version ones.That said, it was intersting to me that the other day you were liking as Amperex 5R4GWY, and I had been, and continue to, run a cleaner tube of the type, some Fivre 5R4GYs, needing added speed and clarity as I burn in some cap changes. And I too have found the 5AR4/GZ34s I tried in this amp a little thick.

Wish we had the same amp so I could hear your tests in my system with more relative accuracy, but then..... this is pretty cool to me. Hopefully this sidetrack has some interest for folks.

Lon, what is the music you are using to evaluate your system?

Sounds a lot like how I judge most changes to my gear.

That's right.

Curious as well, but waiting for the right time to push.


Aren't mono'ed SEs about the same power as a stereo Sarah?
We all have a lot more to learn and you, Lon are the first one with both in one room, I think.



We wait.

Enjoy the journey.

Aren't mono'ed SEs about the same power as a stereo Sarah?

DD, "Mono'd ZEN amps" would be within the range (probably about 5 amps or so in comparison to the 4 to 7 the SEWE300B can be configured to with voltage regulation tube variations) and similarly powered to the SEWE300B.

But MY SE84UFO3 are not "mono'd" but MONOBLOCK, i.e one chassis and power supply per channel. Not two two channel amps each bridged to mono. As they are Monoblocks that does mean a little bit more power than an SE84UFO amp due to the dual power supplies, but probably 10 percent more, not the much larger power increase from "mono-ing" the amps..

https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84UFO3.html

I have found that hum is dependent on tubes. The economy Chinese tubes had zero hum. WE300B had a slight but noticeable hum with both 5U4G and less with 5AR4-WC (Cryotone) that couldn't be adjusted away with the hum pot knobs. The Cryotone 300B-WC initially had a very slight hum, but it went away with about ~200 hours on the tubes and ~500 on the Sarah.

Speaking of break-in, I am fully confident you will find the refinement and intimacy you are currently missing as soon as your tubes and Sarah have a couple hundred more hours of seasoning. I am at ~600 hours now, and there is absolutely no comparison to the first 100-200 hours when the sound quality fluctuated on a daily basis.

Oh and I want to report one thing, about the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B. I thought I had been introducing a new one into the amp but apparently not as I discovered my new, previously unused one, still in the bubble wrap. So I tried that one. No arcing, just constiently starting up fine and dandy, and sounding fantastic in this amp with its "sister" tubes, the Classic 300B. I tried that previous Aqua in the Taboo and it did a tiny arc powering up. So it's going into retirement. So it seems the Aqua is a great tube for the SEWE300B as I have it configured.

Absolutely, I know all too well that waiting and worrying thing. .. especially with medical matters. Hope all goes well.

Nah, I'm not talking about hum. That's done for now. And now I have a big issue with my transport and have frustrated myself so much that I have to step away and chill with my wife and TV for a few hours. Sigh.

I hope for the best for Mom. She's a fighter and wants to live. I miss my Mom every day (she made it to 82) and hope you can have more years!

Lon, what do you mean by "arcing?"

When I think of arcing I picture what happens in the microwave when I put something in there that shouldn't be there and a bolt of lighting flashes and scares the crap out of me.