I've had a mixed experience with the Cryotone tubes. I first bought two 6NS7-WC for my SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with all the Anniversary Mods and to be honest to me it was like the Emperor's New Clothes in comparison to all the wows that others evoked upon them. I found that I preferred the sound of several old RCA 6NS7 that I had been using. And then I bought the 6P15-WC output tubes and after they seasoned in I do hear a bit of improvement--a bit of edge in the lower treble seemed cleaned up, but actually with my system with lots of gain-riding possibilities and a ZROCK2 I can make this cryo'd pair of tubes and the same tubes from Steve sound nearly identical. If the Cryotone tubes last far longer than those from Steve that will be a good purchase; time will tell.

So I can recommend with a bit of enthusiasm the 6P15-WC output tubes for the UFO25 Cryotone offers especially if there is no ZROCK2 in the system.

I probably won't be buying any more Cryotones.

Palomino: Which tube were you using before the ECC88 on your UFO25 and how does it compare in your view?

Too many to remember.  

But my go to tube was a Reflector '74 or '75 6n23P silver shield, single getter tube.  I just saw a pair on US Audio mart for $320 - LOL.  I think I paid $50-$75 back before they became "popular".

I'd describe the sound as similar although the Cyrotone is probably a touch more clear and detailed.  I'd have to swap them out again to be sure.  I can say I haven't felt the need to put the 6N23Ps back in.

jec3504,

The Cryotone OA3's were recommended for my ZMA by GroovySauce. They are absolutely dead quiet.and reduced some minimal vibration noise I was experiencing. Definitely a worthwhile addition IMHO.

HK

Glenn,

I have the UFO25 and have recently fully stocked my amp with Wathem tubes.

These are the ones I would recommend:

ECC88-WC
6P15P-WC
5U4GB-WC
0A3-WC (2)
0D3-WC

I used to prefer the 0A3 for the VR input tube but the 0D3 really does sound better with the other Wathem tubes installed.  The 5U4GB-WC has killer bass and delicate highs. It is especially outstanding.

Hope this helps.

Art

Art - thanks for your suggestions.  I found the OD3 lacked highs and space compared to the OA3 when i rolled the Decware stock tubes. How did the Cyrotone OD3 compare, and in what way do you feel it sounds better in the fully Cryotone set up?

I haven't tried the 5AR4-WC so I can't help in a comparison. The 5U4GB-WC sounds so good that I've been too busy listening to music to be tempted to order a 5AR4-WC.

I have to admit some curiosity to try the 5AR4-WC but between the Wathem tubes, the Synergistic Research purple fuse and yesterday receiving my Lii Audio Fast 15 drivers, I have a lot of break-in to do.

If there is anyone who has tried both, I am also curious about the comparison.

Referring to the voltage regulator for the input/driver tube? That's really a matter of personal preference and system synergy. In general, I've found that the more analytical sounding tubes (e.g. some but not all E88CC/6922 types) sound best with the 0D3 (and a rectifier like the GZ34 Metal Base), whereas warm-sounding tubes (e.g. the 6N1P) tend to pair best with the 0A3 or 0C3 (and perhaps a rectifier emphasizing treble extension, such as the GZ480), and of course everything in-between. In short, I don't think there's any one combination that'l sound best everywhere.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

I thought i should provide an update on my Cryotone experiment. I have finished the upgrade and now have all Cryotone on my SE84UFO25: Rectifier = 5AR4, Rear Voltage Regulator = 2x OA3, Output = 2x 6P15P, Input = ECC88, Voltage = OD3

First, if you are undecided - go for it. I know there is some questioning in this thread about whether this is snake oil. I had the same concern. But the answer in my system is a resounding no. These tubes are wonderful.  There was an immediate and almost heavenly improvement to the sound once I had replaced all tubes with Cryotone. And my system was no slouch before. Generally, i found the sound to be richer and more present. the bass kicked. And the mids . . . the mids have opened right up. Wide. Amazing. Everything just feels more musical.

As for the tubes i chose, I echo Art's observation, "analytical sounding tubes (e.g. some but not all E88CC/6922 types) sound best with the 0D3 (and a rectifier like the GZ34 Metal Base), whereas warm-sounding tubes (e.g. the 6N1P) tend to pair best with the 0A3 or 0C3 (and perhaps a rectifier emphasizing treble extension, such as the GZ480).

I have decided to give these a shot in my UFO2. Don was very responsive to all of my questions and very informative. I decided on the 5R4 rectifier and the EL84 output tubes. I want to hear these tubes for myself.

I have heard what the 5R4 can do as I have been using a NOS 1960 RCA brown base. Some things I like, some things I don't. Let's see what the Cryotone's sound like. Cheers.

Yes, 5AR4; I need to remember to list these tubes correctly. Now if I can just figure out how to quote...

Sounds good. What is your impression of the 5AR4 with the 6P15P? I had questioned Don about the 6P15P, but he really felt the EL84 was a better way to go.

-Danny

That was my experience with the 6P15P-WC as well: different, not a big improvement--that said I have been using them and enjoying them, but I can put the last pair I got from Steve in the Monoblocks, do some adjustments, and not miss anything.

The 6SN7-WC that I got beforehand though. . . I just can't enjoy those in my main system, they are just brighter and drier than I like an input tube to be, and a NOS pair or two I have I enjoy much more.

Regarding EL84: I have tried them in the past, and just this last week was running a pair of Amperex Holland (which usually is a winning formula for me, I really like the sound of Dutch Philips tubes) and they're nice but. . .they seem blanketed with warmth and veiled to me in comparison to the 6P15P of either source. I've tried EL83 by Philips and by Mullard as well with similar results. I like the warmth at first, but miss a clarity and dynamics the 6P15P deliver. I also have converters and tubes of the ones you have on order as well, but suspect the same result will happen. I think I just need the "Hazen Grid Mod" now that I have been listening to it for so long, and those other tube types aren't influenced by it. In the Torris I had I could use tubes that weren't utilizing the Hazen Grid and not miss that so much, but in the SET amps. . . I have to have it now, something seems missing otherwise.

Also known as the "Christmas Comes Early" mod.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/paper145.htm

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1243915681/all

Danny asked:

I have no idea what to expect for delivery time. How long have you had your order in

They were backed up a little here at the start of the year, but usually, a week to 10 days after the order is placed, from my experience. When you're waiting, it seems so long - right?

I traded email with Don today, and he said he had some of my tubes in process. He said they should ship Saturday or Monday. So it seems about a week to process.

I have had Cryotone in both my CSP3-A and my UFO25 for quite some time.  For those of you that may want to experiment try the 12AU7-WCL in the input position of either or both the CSP and/or the UFO25.  Now my input tube of choice, fantastic results.

Of course you will need an adapter and this is really the point of this post.  I ended rolling adapters.  I found that the adapter can have a considerable effect.  Here's the adapters that I've tried:

12AXX to E88CC NOS
Jemosa 12AXX to E88CC with the Korean bakelite/silver socket and gold pins
Jemosa 12AXX to E88CC Ceramic/gold socket and gold pins

I ended up with the Jemosa 12AXX to E88CC Korean Bakelite in the UFO25 and the Jemosa 12AXX to E88CC ceramic/gold in the CSP3... very nice combo!

Next: I have a 6SN7-WC on the way, hope to get it next week.  I have a Jemosa 6SN7 to E88CC ceramic/gold adapter that I will try with it in the CSP3-A

After I try the 6SN7-WC I hope to finalize the Cryotone combos.  Then the UFO25 goes in for processing.

Quote:


Puggy, I had two Amprex/Miniwatt 1957 GZ34 Metal base.  One in my UFO25 and one in my CSP3-A.  Also ended with all Cryotone tubes.  I wasn't sure if I should sell the GZ34 Metal Base.  So, after a while, I put one back in and shortly after that I sold both, each one for over 4X what one CryoTone 5AR4-WC costs and haven't looked back.

Today I received the Cryotone 6SN7-WC.  Rolled it into the CSP3-A input replacing the 12AU7-WCL.  For the first couple of hours I really wanted to put the 12AU7-WCL back.  Now after 4 hours I have the memory of the 12AU7-WCL but can't get myself to roll it back in!  

Right now I have a Cryotone 12AU7-WCL in the input of the UFO25 and the 6SN7-WC in the input of the CSP3-A and can't get over what I'm hearing. I'm going to give this some time and post what the final outcome will be, FWIW.

As you said, "KILLER"!

Joman, I saw some of your earlier posts about how the Cryotone 5AR4s compared with the GZ34 metal base, which certainly played a factor in my purchase. To me, that metal base GZ34 represents the pinnacle of rectifiers (and the price shows that). The fact that this Cryotone can even be compared to the metal base GZ34 is really a testament in itself. Especially for a tube that’s $120, which isn’t even expensive compared to a quality NOS rectifier.

After many more hours of break in, my ZP3 is sounding fantastic with this Cryotone 5AR4. Huge and controlled with great clarity and detail. Best bass I’ve had from my ZP3. It feels like it’s pulling the absolute best performance out of my NOS input tubes. I’m interested in trying the Cryotone input tubes, but I’m extremely happy with this NOS set I’ve been running in the ZP3 (after lots and lots of tube rolling).

Joman, that’s great to hear you’re liking the 6SN7s. I recently bought a linestage that uses 3 6SN7s and have been waiting to put some Cyrotones in there. Seems like the early reviews were slightly mixed on that tube. Please keep us updated on how it’s sounding!

After 2 weeks of processing, and 3 days to ship, my tubes have arrived. I chose Don's pick, and I like what I hear already. I had the original tube set re-installed for the last few weeks to remind myself of the way the amp sounded when new. I chose:

5AR4-WC
EL84-WC
ECC88-WC

My first impressions are good. The bass is solid, tight, and tuneful. Horns through my Heresy IV's seemed to have a bit of edge, and that sounds like it is gone. The 5AR4-WC is not the tall "Coke bottle" style. It's not much taller than the power supply, now. I do not seem to have lost any gain. I usually listen with the knob at the 1/4 position, and it's right there. I'll report more when I have more time on them. Cheers.  

Also.... The low hum I had is almost all gone. Probably caused by the old rectifier.

Ordered Cryotone tube set for the Sarah on Tuesday, I didn’t expect it would take 3 weeks to ship, is that standard for Wathen?

I've had the CryoTone 6SN7 in my CSP3-A for quite a few hours and after listening tonight I am very impressed.  I also think that I know why this tube has had mixed reviews.

First to put some context into this... I discovered that the adapter, if needed as it is for the CSP3-A and UFO25, can make a large difference.  Actually it can be a deal breaker.  I tried it first with a Jemosa gold socket/gold pin adapter.  It was good but not quite there no matter how I tried.  I remembered that I had another adapter.  Looks like a silver socket/gold pin.  That filled in what was not "quite there".

The other factor is my Lumin U2 Mini>Chord M Scaler>Plixer LPS>Chord Qutest, and for good measure add the PSM156.  This combo just mines up detail as if it were gold.

Tonight I felt like listening to the various renditions of Unchained Melody.  At first I was afraid that this might be a comparison of good recordings to poor recordings.  It wasn't.  What it became was an experience with great compositions, vocals in a well recorded venue be it live or studio.  So that once the great was experienced the lesser became uninteresting not unlistenable.

Some examples:

Encore (Live) - Caroline Campbell, Instrumental -
Soundstage depth and imaging, deep and wide, excellent.  Layering and timbre of instruments, beyond reproach.

Lykke Li (piano accompaniment) -
First few notes and lyrics... I involuntarily muttered HOLY S... (I'm not normally prone to colourful expletives)

Crywolf with Roniit -
The harmony of the voices was simply unreal and evident by the separation, and the texture of the voices coupled with the emotion, it put a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye... okay eyes (men don't blubber, I reminded myself).  And now there are many more versions of Unchained Melody that are on my playlist.  

My take on the CryoTone 6SN7-WC is that it's truthful.  Give it what it needs to do what it does best and you'll be rewarded.  

So, now, my insufferable curiosity has me wondering what would happen if I put another in the UFO25???  In place of the CryoTone 12AU7-WCL???  I can't...  This is killing me!

I just shut the amp off after 9 hours today because my ears needed a break.

There you go, who said music lovers can't self-regulate!

I'm glad you have had such a positive reaction to that tube.

I've tried it with three different converter bases, and in three different components in two rooms. It's "okay" in my largest room in the CSP3 with the mods as driver, not input, tubes, but there are several NOS that are much better. Because of my experience with this tube, and a slightly more favorable but hardly "wow" experience with the Wathen output tubes, these seem like "the Emperor's new clothes" to me and I am not interested in trying a "full loom" or other Wathen tubes.

We're all different. I think these that I bought may appeal to those who are very much into extracting every bit of detail whereas my system has different targets. Regardless, I'm very happy they work out for others; I'll continue with using NOS tubes, of which I have dozens.

Well, I like the "You are the Mic" path to audio enjoyment as well, but these two tube types from Wathen didn't cooperate with reaching that goal for me. I jest about the "Emperor's new clothes," but from outside the fan club that is what it resembles a bit, as in my experience the "reality" was not a big improvement and not a favored result.

There are many different ways to get to the goal and many different persons on the job. I'm pursuing a different way, and respect the campaign and path of others, while knowing what does not appear to be the trail for me.