I posted a few weeks ago about building a system for my photo studio, but have new questions with new parameters so I figured a new post was in order.

I finished building a pair of Betsy’s using specs and advice graciously provided by Randy Rash. I doubled 3/4” Baltic birch for the baffles and tripled the same for the bases. I used the standard Wild Burro drivers. The pair exceeded my expectations sound-wise, but think I can do even better for my next set.

So now I’m waffling between building a pair of Steve’s medium size Lii F15 Betsy clones or a pair of standard sized Betsy’s with Lii F8 drivers and a single larger baffle with a Lii 15” woofer for bass plus a sub amplifier to drive it.

I haven’t run any numbers, but I’m guessing the two options would be similar in cost when all’s said and done. In any case, the main reason for my indecision comes down to sound quality. I’m guessing the F8s + W15 will have a bit more reach top end and bottom, but everything I read makes me think there might just be some magic to the F15s in the bigger baffles. There’s also the hassle of integrating the F8s and the W15, I suppose.

FWIW, I mostly listen to acoustic stuff—jazz, a lot of female vocals, a bit of Bach, a bit of Chopin, nothing too raucous, strenuous, or loud.

I’m a newb, for sure when it come to all this. I have the woodworking skills—I was a cabinetmaker much of my life. But when it comes to evaluating the equipment with respect to sound quality I could sure use some help. So can you guys weigh in on which setup you’d prefer and why?

Michael

Thanks, HK. Your review seems typical with respect to the magical qualities of the Lii F15 and Randy's Betsy design in general. I do wonder how the marked difference in baffle sizes affects the sound. There's not a lot of real estate left on Randy's baffle after the F15 drops in. That's not a criticism in any way, obviously they sound great. I just wonder about the difference in sound between the Caintuck Lii 15 and Steve's much larger baffle.

I notice you also have a pair of Omegas. A comparison between your Betsy's and the Omegas would be useful to me since I have a pair of Omega CAMs driven by a SE84UFO2 and enjoy the output quite a bit. Thanks!

M_P,

The only thing gained by the larger baffles is a denser presentation, slightly taller soundstage and bass response is a bit tighter. Tradeoff is a heavier speaker that's harder to move around.

Tonally the Omega SAHO speakers are similar to the baffles. They dig a bit deeper in the bass, but not much. The baffles are a bit more dynamic and have a more expansive soundstage. I listen to the Betsy's 90% of the time.

HK

HK,

Your leaning toward the Betsy’s over the Omegas says a lot. I’m familiar with the Omega alnico sound and love it. Looking forward to hearing the F15’s. I’ve certainly got the space for the bigger versions in my studio, but I am questioning the weight.

Michael

M_P,

I agree 100% with Genos suggestion on the full sized baffles given your room size, it's enormous. I have a much smaller listening space. The larger baffles will give you a much better listening experience.

HK

OK. I’m pretty well convinced to build the medium sized (35 1/2” H) clones. Now I need a bit of advice on materials. I see Steve offers these in a range of species from Poplar, at the low end of hardness and density on up to some pretty rugged domestic and exotic hardwoods.

I sold my shop and all the equipment when I left PA. Now when I build anything it’s pretty much just cut and assemble. So, the easier choice for me is Baltic birch. It’s pretty straightforward, even without much equipment, to glue up layers of 3/4” BB ply. My educated guess is that Baltic birch will be as effective, sonically, as the solid wood options especially considering the low-density options. Any thoughts?

What kind of hardware do you use to mount the Lii f15 to 1 1/2 maple butcher block? Just received my F15 today and the countertop yesterday.

Any thoughts on mounting from the back vs flushing them on the front of the baffle?

Thanks

What no audiophile screws? Thanks Archie

JEC,

No audiophile screws here, but I can apply a non resonant ceramic coating (patent pending) and then cryogenically treat the screws at a cost of $300/screw. Guaranteed results! 😆

HK

I use a ZR2 with F15s in big baffles.  Steve posted that he did not use the ZR2 with them.  I did pull it for awhile thinking I didn't need it or it was taking something away but I eventually put it back in and I think it considerably enhances the sound up and down the range.  For OBs, I think even Steve preferred the F15 to the 10s.  If size is an issue the calculus will change.

If you haven't yet, spend the time to go through Steve's Big Betsy Thread.  I think he covers all of this.

Michael,

Without the outriggers, I don't think the base per Steve's design, is deep enough to prevent it from leaning forward. Making the base several inches deeper will even things out. I do not think that lack of outriggers will affect the sound.

Another suggestion to help with vibration, is to use lead shot on top of the bases. This was Archie's suggestion back when folks first started building bigger baffles based on Steves scaled up Caintuck baffle. I am using several bags of shot on each speaker, but Archie made a box on each speaker base and filled them with the shot. Really cool idea. Archie, photo please.

Best,

Geno

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