Boys boys, now now!

Photos of us are everywhere.

Here is my photo.

3 times in the last 2 days! It’s not moving fast enough. Lol
I checked when they sent it to me and again after I ordered another unit, the csp3 to go with the mk5. Checked to see if they had processed the order. I wish they hadn’t sent it. It’s daunting to look at. Good for Steve and the crew though. 👍

Hi Tony,
nope the level 1 uses poly film caps while level 2 uses copper foil caps to match the copper foil caps in the signal path.

The anniversary edition is unfortunately totally out of my price range!
It would be  a dream come true.

a.

Dear 67,


The average 12 months ago was around 30 units per months the current average is 40 (or 46 as per your 12 weeks average).
I ordered last July and I am sitting pretty.
:-)

a.

"
I keep getting the feeling that this queue has some sort of relativistic property. The later you order, the slower the queue you find yourself in.
"

There might be some kind of truth to that.

If you order now you have 40units/per but some 2k orders in front of you.  If you ordered a year ago you were at 30/Mth on a 1000 orders BUT you now have  this progress in the "bank" and you are now running at same speed as everyone else.

I just like to think the little engine is running as lean as it can hopefully quality is same or better, that is my only concern.

BTW does Steve's units have the likes of serial numbers?
Or a builder's plaque or such thing like:
Decware
Se84UFO 2.2
Options: xlr
Custom: Figured base black
Completed: 07/2022

Anyway I am happy as I am!

Cheers,

a

Very Cool,

Thx!

a.

Donnie

... You look like a guy I know...

a.

As I while away the time, watching the rain fall and waiting for the calendar leaves to whirl away, fast-forward style, to the delivery of my UFO25 two years from now <cue prolonged coughing fit>, I was browsing the listings of other Decware products, as is my wont, and it occurred to me that a ZBIT would actually be a nice tool to have. I could even buy one right now, if nothing else as a way to blow off steam.

Can't add it to my original order, though. Delivery in three years? No, I think not. Not even two. The queue has closed my wallet.

It always made sense to me that "simpler" non-amp electronics, as well as speakers should be available faster, or even subcontracted so Decware could focus on amps. OTOH if non-amp products are moving out faster, that would be kind of depressing (ha ha) because the overall queue is only moving at around 10.5 units a week, which means amps are moving even slower.

Lack of informative disclosure on productivity is the only thing that has kind of bothered me about Decware. The list exploded, what, 3 years ago? Till then it seems Steve could be pretty, ah, "organic" about productivity and turnaround because even at an organic, quality-focused pace, people would get their amps in 4-6 months. I would say that anyone should be willing to wait 4 months for any product. But three years?

Your comment is interesting, though. Shit, now I have to start tracking turnaround on individual products.

The 3 year wait comes from dividing the current approximate 40 shipped orders per month into the length of the current waitlist.  At about 1600 orders, that’s a 40 month wait unless production rates increase.  Or 3 years and 4 months.  The super long waits began with orders placed last summer onward.  Super long being over 2 years.

It is what it is.  But Decware should post ACCURATE wait estimates on the order page so folks understand what they’re getting into.  Especially given deposits are now not refundable.

The length of the waitlist is not good for anyone, including Decware as I doubt they are buying parts now to cover the 3 years.  Inflation could be troublesome for Decware having sold amps 3 years before parts were purchased.

The obvious solution is to sub contract out to the Cayin facility in China that makes PrimaLuna.

Bueller?  Bueller?

HI,
Dancing sea, so we are in agreement no one has waited 3 yr and 4 months for a decware product. Are you saying decware is not presenting accurate wait time or that decware should purchase a crystal ball in order to predict the future wait-time?

"The length of the waitlist is not good for anyone"
I think we can all agree on that and I think Steve must certainly be acutely aware of that. As for parts well for the past year or so all chip have been super expensive due to silica sand shortage so it might be a good gamble not to stock-up  when the prices are reaching record high price. But that is his gamble not mine!

Burgermeester,
"For me over two years, that works out to about $2,000".
If you purchase 30K$ worth of decware hardware,
2k$ profit over 3 years would mean your return on investment would be around 7% average for the entire 36month period, If you can achieve that you should open a brokerage firm and trade on the stock exchange, you will be the talk of the town.
:-)

I myself decided to give some money to Steve in exchange for receiving an amp. The rest is irrelevant.
The day If one day I don't like terms I could cancel the order.

Cheers,

a.

Coyote wrote:

Quote:


Your comment that no one has yet waited 3 years and 4 months is a red herring and not worth responding to.

Yes, I am saying that Decware is not remotely clear on their website about approximately how long the wait will be.  So unclear as to border on deceptive.

The website states:

“There are presently lots of orders on our real time build sheet.”

That’s it.  That’s all they convey about the potential 3+ year wait.  And that’s absurd.  “Lots of orders” could mean a 2 month wait, or 4 month, or just about anything if no context is provided.  And in no way alludes to the nearly inconceivable reality.  1600+ orders for Marantz might mean a one week wait.  Unless Decware states their production capacity, then saying “we have lots of orders” is meaningless, and fairly deceptive.

A 4th grader can calculate what the approximate wait is as of today - and so can Decware.  If they successfully hire more techs, they could then update those approximate wait times.

When I ordered my CSP3 and ZR2 I easily calculated an 11 to 12 month wait - which proved spot on.  At the time Sarah told me it would be about 5 months because she grossly miscalculated.  Her way was to look at what order dates are shipping today, look at today’s date, and let that determine.

By that logic, if you look at the wait list today they are shipping orders from April 9, 2021. Today is June 8, 2022.  That would mean at 14 month wait.  But the truth is vastly different, being currently at 40 months.

I’m not sure if Decware is intentionally being deceptive, or if they just aren’t that smart about this sort of thing - things are not being run by a Harvard MBA.  

But when your waitlist is, as of today, over 3 years, then a company owes it to their customers to make it abundantly clear on the website that the wait is a matter of years - not a year - but years.   The same should be conveyed for phone orders.

Their approach really doesn’t make sense in nearly every business direction.  Can anyone name a similar situation in the HiFi industry in which wait times grew to 2 or 3 years with orders continued to be taken, all with little mention on the website about how long the wait is?

I totally get it, this current situation vastly exceeds the business parameters that have guided Decware well since day one.  But surely that answer is not to just keep raking in orders and collect the non-refundable deposits should someone, well, die because the wait is so long (joking, sort of!).

Hi Coyote,

7% pa yield @ 2yrs on $14,528 = $2,105.

7% return on a real estate investment trust is trivially easy to get. Maybe you should look into one.

https://www.fortunebuilders.com/high-yield-reits/

Number of places moving UP on the list.

3/18: 14
3/25: 17
4/1:   14
4/8:   11
4/15: 11
4/22: 9
4/29: 2
5/6: 9
5/13: 1
5/20: 10
5/27: 17
6/3: 3
6/10: 13

Average places moved, 13 weeks (one quarter): 10.08
Queue length for tail order: 1751/10.08 = 174 weeks

Fair enough Rivieraranch, my favorite thread. Off the list my orders been in  Packing & Shipping Dept. since  Tuesday. ZR2 is just above 1200. Guess I'll check next year. Today is 14 months since my wife ordered after I said it would take too long. Somewhere in this thread said "would be happy to get my order by July" lol.

Hang in there Burgermeester!!! I'm pulling for you!!

Thanks Steve for posting in this thread. Find it interesting to hear the passion, excitement and sometimes frustration of people waiting for your gear. Yes vacuum tubes are cool!

Stop taking orders until the wait time for that specific product, order to ship, is 6 months or less.

Closing the order window won't make anyone who wants that Decware product wait longer for it. Instead of waiting interminably for their order to ship, people will wait interminably for the window to reopon on that product they want. But at least Decware would be saying, if we can't fill your order in a reasonable amount of time, we won't take your money.

That way Steve can operate as he sees fit -- which ultimately he has to do -- without generating dissatisfaction. On its face, it's a more professional approach, and communicates reliability.

Not everyone is unhappy. I ordered a bespoke product from a craftsman, I expect that to take time. I consider the deposit a placeholder to engage that craftsman. Waiting should surprise no one. It does not surprise or anger me in any way.
Steve graciously refunded my first deposit when I found a used amp in the classifieds, so there’s also that.

anyone on the Decware site familiar with Howard Dumble guitar amps??

I tried to call him once. He never answered. He billed me $350 for trying.
( joking but not far off)

If anyone is interested just google a Howard Dumble contract trying to get a amp built. ( he is no longer alive ) then look what the amps originally sold for and what they sell for today if you can find a seller.

It is a special gift that hand built electronics like Decware are as easy to obtain as they are.
Thank You Steve and the Decware team for your gift to our audio society.
Kahuna Jack

I certainly agree that you pay your money and you take your choice as far as how long you're willing to wait. This is a point that has been made to death on this thread. I'm not cancelling my orders; I made my choice. That doesn't mean I can't be curious.

Having to wait a long time, it's perfectly natural to be curious about how Decware is going deal with the deluge of orders, especially if yours is one of them. Curious, not critical.

And if one were to conclude that no information forthcoming on that subject for months on end means no plan in particular, that's natural too, especially if you've paid 100% up front and are looking at two years to delivery. That describes me, anyway. Curious.

Also, this is a forum and people chat, and it would seem that what Steve is facing is an operations challenge, and many of us are very fond of that topic and like to talk about it and are very interested in how he's handling it.

The update Steve provided above is, in effect, exactly what some of us have been looking for, and it was greatly appreciated. The funny thing is, none of us came out and just asked for the information, because, well, we're intimidated by our own lack of technical chops and maybe we think it's presumptuous. Now we have the information. Thank you!!

As far as calling the Illinois AG, I'm more concerned about the trove of sales and business information contained in the list. I mean, there are few businesses that would release that kind of info to the world, though I personally think it's harmless. Steve's willingness to allow me to estimate his accounts payable and working capital (ha ha) are the best indication that he's the anti-Dumble.

Quote:


wow.

Hanging on the wall like a diploma.

Better than a diploma; you can actually  "use"  what you got with this award.



*turns green*

Quote:


nice job. i'll be doing the same, right next to my old college diploma, circa 1984.

i see you've updated your sig. have you unboxed your torii yet? flummoxed or flabbergasted?