Me too, I look forward to hearing the broken in ones. I suspect this is not altogether an apples-to-apples comparison though. Some woods are bound to have similar qualities, but recalling the big-big baffles sounding pretty different, I felt pretty sure it was more than just size, that the super dense wood was imparting notable qualities on the sound.

I am glad the new maple baffles have been sold, but really would love to have heard differences between  the same size cherry baffles and the hard maple after the maple got some time on them.

Though people seem to like them all, the complexity within the simplicity is intriguing, where shape, wood, thickness, foot density and weight, driver placement, handles, etc, all make differences. These are really interesting speakers to me!

Good to hear someone bought it.

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How many hours would you consider that point to be reached ?
Mine have some 45H now and they are pretty good.

So I have done the recording and am waiting for it to upload...  ::)

This certainly isn't the recording I would have chosen to make a comparison as it is overly chunky with heavy compressed bass... but then that is the reason I choose it for a burn-in LP to rapidly work out all the kinks in the cones of the F15's.  Nevertheless, there is an noticeable difference between the same recording/amp/volume on the two speakers...  

A lot of it is the burn-in as is the intent of the videos to demonstrate, but some of it was also the hard maple vs. the cherry.  

Anyway, FWIW this will be a perfect A/B comparison between new out of the box and well seasoned for several hundred hours.

You'll see it here soon.  I may even do another one on some real music if I get time and that would certainly be more useful for this comparison.  I hear the same thing in the video that I do in real life, and that is the maple is cleaner while the cherry is more lush.  Certainly that can't all be due to break-in?

Steve

https://decware.wistia.com/medias/ahifccwmbl

Here is the same track on the well seasoned cherry pair.

Steve

Cymbals shimmering, mids display more detail, vocal is clearer, bass is...well as you said chunky. For me the jury is out on the effect of sound with different species of wood. Could it be the new drivers harsness? Thanks Steve!  ;)

Hi spyder1,

I'm sure that Steve could come up with something nicer and more effective, but a few of my customers have used the products from this company with their Betsy baffles.

They have small children or pets and the "waffle" grills seem to work well.

Best wishes,
Randy

Hi John,

Thanks .... the "audio he shed" is working out well.
I just had the mini-split HVAC system installed and it is quite comfortable .... even with the outside temperature in the teens.
The mini-split is very quiet ..... that's important .....





I can have two guests at a time for a listening session. The center seat is certainly the best, but the sweet spot is actually pretty good from the two bar stools.

Best wishes,
Randy

Yeah, Randy, but wouldn't it be better if you shortened the stools a bit?

I haven't done this with my Big Betsy's but in the past I have fashioned a frame out of trim wood and stretched and stapled speaker fabric bought at  a fabric store.  

I attached with Velcro for a non-permanent solution but Parts Express sells various hardware like magnets and such.  My solution may sound a little cludgy but it actually looked pretty professional.  

I'm pretty sure Parts Express also sells the frames and fabric.

P.S. I just went out to Parts Express:

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/grill-frame-kits/326

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-grill-cloth-fabric/319

I would use the Jatoba, in either thickness because I have no experience going beyond 1-7/8, so 3 inches is unknown territory.  Might sound good, might kill the liveness.

Steve

Wow!

Thank you Steve and JBbuzz. You guys are awesome!

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The last time I was at PE back in spring of 2002 attending one of their audio show/competition/flea market gigs, Steve's amp was present.  I remember purchasing a couple cheap sets of satellite speakers for the whole house audio system that are still in use today.

Randy, the next time I am out in your neck of the woods I'll have to give you a heads up and have a listening session.

Steve, I know you are a busy man and need to meet business demands but I hope you have time to break in those maple Z15Ms before letting them loose...for a comparison.

Cheers
John

Yes, hard to know wood effects without some pretty careful testing. I enjoyed the article on wood too, though I can't say it led me to a conclusion that the differences between hardwoods would necessarily be subtle, especially in these big baffles where the wood is so much of what makes the speaker. This is pretty conceptual for me, my references being Steve's recordings, and comments on this thread (and a few others). And this thread implies many woods and thicknesses can make a nice speaker. But if we could put all these speakers together and AB them in one system, I suspect we would hear differences notable enough to make choices if we were planning to build a pair.

Sound qualities appear to be influenced by reflective and baffling effects, but also the baffles acting in part as "soundboards." It would seem many wood characteristics could effect how the musical energy moves through and off the baffles, those effects compounded/adjusted by design choices of size, shape, driver placement, handle type and placement, weight and size of feet, thickness of a baffle...

With anything, energy movement is effected by what is in the path of that energy. So, conceptually, to me, musical energy released from the driver is very likely effected by baffle wood density, composition, grain structure, oil levels, resin levels, etc...

Even within a species, I can imagine potential for relatively important differences. Defined by genetics and where the tree grows...variability in soil, water, sun, wind, and competition for these, there could be pretty notable variables in grain and density.... and more between different species. A tree in a calmer environment, and having a lot of sun, good soil, and water, grows easily, with wider growth rings, and relatively open structure. Whereas, trees growing tight with other trees have to struggle, developing more slowly, all aspects of structure more compressed, denser...Then the variabilities between tropical hardwood compositions and structures and those more common here, lots of choices!

All else the same, it would seem some hardwoods could be similar in how they interact with these drivers, though I suspect others could be pretty different. But then it comes back to how much the baffle wood influences the sound, and how much we care.

I am just thinking, especially with these massive baffles, some variations effecting sound are likely notable enough to matter to me anyway. A more conclusive test would be a challenge though, maybe 3-5 pair made at once, just alike except using woods suspected to be good, but having notably different grain and density.....wouldn't that be a cool experiment?

On the other hand, even if wood does matter notably in this design, with these nice drivers, making baffles utilizing and springing off the discoveries this thread has so far revealed, it does seem many hardwoods could produce a very nice speaker!

The river tables are beautiful. My neighbor is building one from oak he cut and milled from his property. One of the members of our local audio community built open baffles of acrylic. They have a crossover to allow accommodation of an Eminence woofer. I haven’t heard them but am intrigued.

Well, it seems that the baffle for the F15s serves many purposes. Two of these are evident from what I found to date. The baffle serves as a spring board of the sounds created with the F15 driver. The placement of the driver and the shape of the baffle help avoid the ringing(amplitude drop of certain frequencies directly related to wavelength) effect created when the sound reaches the boundaries of the baffle. The thickness of the baffle keeps the driver stable enabling strong clear frequency reproduction. Second, the actual cell structure of the baffle will alter the sound by acting like a sponge absorbing certain frequencies. The resulted timbre created will cause undesirable results as shown in this thread by the employment of heavy bases, handle, etc.. By gluing up the boards in a longitudinal fashion, the stacked cell structure will resonate at the weakest point(top and bottom ends) of the baffle as it absorbs sound.

I jumped into this thread late on a whim. It lead me to firing up some dormant equipment which too my surprise sounded a lot better then memory served. Turns out that shelves were added flanking one side of the room and a large flat screen screen TV was added posted two feet into the room from the front wall replacing a 36" tube. I posted a picture earlier in this thread. The for-mentioned is responsible for improved image, clearer highs, and detailed bass.

Since, I mounted the TV on the front wall and the system now sounds more inline with memory. Before I continue with a F15M build, some room treatment will be needed or the TV will need to be placed in the original position. I plan to elaborate on this in a different thread.

John

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From what I notice since I play with OB, which is very new, these type of baffles need to be placed far away from walls, and it seems the bigger the OB the futher it should be placed, but also the bigger the sound stage.
The rest is essentially a matter of room and electronics.

Up in this thread you should see the baffle I made. I couldn't place them far enough from the walls to get a satifying result. Since I reduced them drastically to be able to get a lot nearer, the sound is far better but the lacement is still critical.
I have not finish to meddle with this.

Well, it won't be an OB anymore , it's going to be a tube.

Steve, why are you using different types of wood for the Betsy? Why not just one solid piece? Why not just use one solid Paduke baffle?
I also noticed that you can sell them in a Bubinga finish. Does it mean that the Bubinga would be a veneer over the baffle or would the entire baffle be made with Bubinga?
I would also like to know how thick the baffles are.

Thanks Steve.  

For all you Big Betsy DIY'ers out there. A really nice 16'8" x 62" x 3" slab of Bubinga Waterfall wood. It's only $35,000 on Etsy😁.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/244831065/bubinga-slab-table-16-8-long-x-62-wide?gp...

HK

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Large solid wood slabs react wildly with environmental changes. Because of wood cell structure, changes in humidity, temperature, and probably atmospheric pressure combined will cause all natural wood to change shape and warp. Green, air dried, kiln dried will all warp in varying degrees. Depending on the conditions it could get so severe that driver frames could bend, mounting screws could become dislodge, and the baffle appearance will suffer. Gluing up boards to create the dimensions required helps greatly with the elimination of slab distortion(warp). This is a time consuming process and surely built into Steve's market price. A solid slab can also be stabilize to a lesser degree with carefully placed wood boards attach across the slab grain.
I think veneer over glued up boards will work, and give flexibility in design of the glued pattern of the wood while catering to the visual taste of the end user.
John

Hi HK,

As opposed to you, I am a DIY'er. Sorry if my response posed a picture of you making recommendations with that question. My response was not meant in that way. I merely was trying to point some of the issues that could result in using a solid piece of wood species.
Money can obtain the latest and greatest delivered to a venue giving instant gratification. Except Z15's, according to Steve's lead times mention in this thread! I'm thinking a few pallets, hand planer, and some veneer can obtain similar results.
Whatever way audio nirvana is obtained does not matter to me. I really have no subjective bias either way. I lean toward the DIY method because of the chase and hands on experience further satisfying the result. Sometimes the result can fail miserably and other times beyond my best expectations. Most likely DIYing led to my current situation that will give me time to do Steve's recommended read of the book pictured.
Like you, I absorb the experience and knowledge presented on this forum by Steve and the like to further my understanding of this hobby.
Cheers!
John    

I give my thumbs up for using maple BB for the baffles.

Cool link on wood. I'm interested in building a baffle of Mahogany and Wenge. Living in Rochester NY where we have a lot of cool Amish folks and wood workers, I'm going to see what I can come up with.

Palomino,
You seem to like your 1" baffles. Great! Do you notice any differences with the thinner baffles...good or bad?
John

The three inch maple butcher block I found on Home Depot's website is definitely a special order item, but you get free shipping!

Here is the link:  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Swaner-Hardwood-6-ft-L-x-2-ft-6-in-D-x-3-in-T-Butche...

This would be enough to make a pair of the medium baffles.