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Steve's BIG BETSY Project (Read 149120 times)
Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1300 - 01/30/20 at 11:56:59
 
The 1” baffles definitely have a different sound than Steve’s thicker versions.  Steve’s have a lower, fuller sound to them.  However, mine seem a bit faster and emphasize the mids.

If I had to do it over again, I’d spend another $175 and double them up.  I’m leaving this pair as is.  Still very enjoyable.  

Where I think I will end up longer term is building the smaller baffle at 2”.  The 36” stair treads are a little less $$.

I don’t think you can go wrong with these drivers.  You can tune them with the material you choose.
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1301 - 01/30/20 at 13:20:53
 
What does "The 36” stair treads" mean? What is considered a "Stair?"
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1302 - 01/30/20 at 14:35:19
 
Basically it’s a piece of oak that is 36” X 11” that you step on when you walk up a set of stairs.  They come in various lengths (widths).  If you go into Home Depot they will be in the stair parts section in lumber.  The one tricky thing is you have to cut off the round over front lip of the tread.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1303 - 01/30/20 at 15:55:07
 
Pal,

I thought you made 42" tall baffles?  Did you get longer treds or run them horizontally?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1304 - 01/30/20 at 15:56:12
 
And make sure they are solid oak. I just looked at some yesterday that were glue-ups of unknown woods with an Oak Veneer on them. I was pretty disappointed as I was hoping to make some very solid shelves out of them.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/11-1-2-x-48-in-Red-Oak-Engineered-Tread-8430R-048-HD...

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JBzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1305 - 01/30/20 at 16:27:24
 
Yes, I saw the same at my local HD store as the link LR provided. No solid oak stair treads were available at that store.

I did find this butcher block at a size to make a set of medium baffles and probably enough to construct a decent base. Must be ordered in my area. Shipping is free as noted by another poster.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hardwood-Reflections-6-ft-2-in-L-x-3-ft-3-in-D-x-1-5...
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1306 - 01/30/20 at 17:09:15
 
I still like these BB slabs.  Big enough for the large baffle and 1 3/4" thick.  By the time you make the baffles, the little extra material cost will be irrelevant.

https://www.foodservicedirect.com/john-boos-oil-finish-hard-rock-maple-industria...
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Geno
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1307 - 01/30/20 at 18:51:09
 
My Crystals are in 1 1/2” Baltic birch plywood, and they sound fantastic. Although I don’t have a comparison with solid hardwood, I can’t imagine that it would sound a great deal better. Supplemented with 12” bass drivers in 3/4” red oak plywood baffles. I’m very happy with the combination.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1308 - 01/30/20 at 18:57:26
 
My baffles are 42".  But you can use 36" treads for the smaller big betsy.

I got mine at a hardwood store and they cut off the roundover.  Very precise cuts.

They also had about 50 of the 42" treads so I was able to choose grain and make sure the ones I bought were flat.

I shopped my local home depot and all they had were 36' at the time.
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1309 - 01/31/20 at 00:53:03
 
Palomino what wood are you using in your baffle? Maple?
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1310 - 01/31/20 at 01:04:15
 
The Big Betsy is 1.1” red oak.  The Crystal 10 is 1.5” Baltic.
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1311 - 01/31/20 at 11:15:45
 
My OB project will be pretty interesting. I say this because I'm a guy who not only loves good sound, but I also love curvy things; from my women to me gadgets.  :)


So I would love for my OB to be something curvy, and still product great sound, which will be a challenge. But I am up for it. I think it would have to start with me getting two blocks of wood (Mahogany and Wenge) and binding them together. They would have to be like 5" thick and 44" to 45" tall, and 25" wide.
Once that's done Ill probably have to take it to a place where they have a 3D machine to carve out my design.
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JBzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1312 - 01/31/20 at 15:01:22
 
Maple, Cherry, White Oak, and Red Oak stair treads can be ordered from Home Depot. Free delivery if shipped to a local store.

I am leaning toward stair treads for the medium build for the F15s. Possibly with a cut cherry tread flanking red oak. One inch baffles on the F15M version of Steve's design might scale well and create negligible differences with the thinner baffle. My room is on the small/medium size so F15L would be overkill and maybe the F15M still to large. I have not ruled out the F15 Betsy's but concerned about the diminished mid/bass response because of the smaller baffle.

Butcher block would be an easier build. Just draw the pattern and cut with your favorite weapon! Aesthetically, BB would look like a table set up on it's short edge or a hardwood floor pattern set in a vertical fashion. Not appealing in my opinion. Finger joints in the construction of BB also is a concern. Hopefully all the fingers where perfectly cut...if not, cross cutting the joints could expose ones that are not, thereby creating issues with the edge finish.

My thoughts of using pallet slates for construction of a baffle is enticing but very time consuming. Reclaimed slates can be purchased cheep but would need extensive work to assemble. I got better things to do with time.

I believe sawn hardwood is the only material for this open baffle build. The interaction with the very fast F15 and different wood cell structure combines to form a blended instrument of faithful engaging sound reproduction. For me this would rule out any composite material for baffle use that can only take away from the F15 design.

I listen to Steve's recordings of Lii's Crytal-10 and cabinets. The combination does sound great but the cabinet can be heard which is missing in the OB recordings. My preference leads me to the OB and F-15.

The F15s are on the way!

Cheers!

John
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stairtek-stair-treads-risers-btroc1136-64_400_compressed.jpg

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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1313 - 01/31/20 at 15:19:16
 
JB, those look like they don't have the roundover which is a plus.  One less step.  I like the continuous grain of the stair treads.  They are made of glued up lumber, but the grain is continuous up and down.

The only thing I would be wary of buying online is getting perfectly flat treads with nice grain.  I went through quite a few before I found 6 that were perfectly flat and had nice grain.

In hindsight, I am glad I did not double up the Big Betsy baffles.  Would have been too heavy.  If i do the smaller version, I will double them up to go 2".  I should be able to still move them.

For you guys who have used linseed oil, what wax did you end up using as a top coat? (this may be early in the thread, I am being lazy)
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JBzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1314 - 01/31/20 at 15:43:43
 
Palomino, the picture shown is the builders grade version of stair treads. There is one rounded edge.
I hear you about selection of treads left to others.
Funny thing is my local HD shows 72 36" treads in stock! I could not find them a week ago. Hmmm! Plus the stock items are a dollar or more but not listed as builder grade.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1315 - 01/31/20 at 15:52:51
 
Try the HD mobile ap and designate a store.  It will tell you # in stock,  the aisle and bin.  

No hardwood stores in your area?  I have one fairly close in the Chicagoland area.  They do precision cuts for a buck.
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1316 - 01/31/20 at 15:55:43
 
I wonder if one could use Mahogany MDF boards and glue them together where one would get a 2” thickness.
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1317 - 01/31/20 at 16:46:31
 
Pal,

I don't wax over linseed oil.  You can but the point of the oil is that you can freshen it up with additional coats anytime.  Once you wax it that option goes away.  The oil will give a nice patina that wax won't enhance.


Alex,

Maybe you have experience with it, but my gut says those woods won't do well glued together.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1318 - 01/31/20 at 18:33:29
 

Archie,

We recommend WATCO rejuvenating oil if the hand-oiled speaker is being waxed. The rejuvenating oil dissolves old wax with each application.

For less serious maintenance, we recommend HOWARD Feed-N-Wax wood polish & conditioner.

The advantage of wax vs. re-oiling as that you can't mess up with wax.  Adding oil can easily ruin the look of the finish by increasing the gloss and or increasing the gloss in some areas more than others.  Not a real issue for a wood worker, but imagine the customer using linseed oil without having first learned all the things not to do.  If they keep it waxed, they may never have to add more oil, or at least prolong it for quite some time.

Anyway, the two products above are friendly enough that customers  can get great results without problems.

Steve
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Showme
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1319 - 01/31/20 at 18:50:12
 
I’ve been using the HOWARD Feed-N-Wax since it was recommended by Steve earlier. I’m using it on some vintage wood cases and speakers and it really does seem to be feeding dry wood. Imparts a nice glow to the wood.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1320 - 02/01/20 at 01:51:14
 
Thanks for the Wax guidance Steve.

I was at Home Depot tonight checking out their wax products and went to the stair parts section.   They had 36” “engineered” treads with the mdf innards but they also had about 30 - 48” solid wood red oak treads.  The other HD store I frequent had 36” last time I was there.  Maybe it’s a Chicago thing.

About $300 with tax for 12 - 48” treads to do a 2” thick baffle.  You could cut them down to 36” and use the leftover wood to start your bases.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1321 - 02/01/20 at 02:58:13
 
exactly.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1322 - 02/01/20 at 03:13:19
 

I am presently experiencing enlightenment as the direct result of making these speaker demo videos...

In addition to the 4 vinyl LP tracks I am making videos of for each speaker, I have also compiled a 12 minute digital sampler that I will be playing as a single track (video).  

I have just completed it for the Lii Audio Crystal 10 Reference speakers, and am now repeating the same tracks on the ZF15L and the true differences in sound between these two speakers are astounding!  

So I will be adding this digital track, despite the extra work, to the collection for each speaker.  That means each speaker will have four analog tracks and one 12 minute montage of digital tracks.

Studying these all the videos I've done so far with mid-priced headphones directly plugged into my iMac, it is easy to hear what's happening over here.  I haven't even let myself hear these tracks on a real DAC yet, because as always I use handicaps as tools to make things extra better. ; )

The enlightenment is how much more solid, and dense, and dynamic the ZF15L is compared to a cabinet that can go easily below 30Hz, even on the Leeds Organ track (the first one) the lowest notes had twice the sound from the ZF15L even though that should be nearly impossible.  Seriously, I've said it before... I have never heard a speaker that has better or more natural bass than these, with the only exception being the Imperial Horn, but frankly that's going by memory so it's possible I would like the more open boxless sound I have now.



Steve
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1323 - 02/01/20 at 03:33:54
 
Steve, thank you for posting the videos. It is much appreciated.
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JBzen
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1324 - 02/01/20 at 13:42:52
 
The digital 12 minute track thru Crystal 10 box displays a lot of the known issues with digital recorded/reproduced music. I will go on a limb here and say the upcoming(soon I hope Huh) OB comparison will add a touch of character!

Alex, creating the radius for your cabinets must have been a chore. Sealed box right? I though the sound was excellent but attenuated.

John
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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1325 - 02/01/20 at 17:37:53
 
Pal, can't you get 8/4 oak in your area?  I've got to believe you'd save a bunch of time and money.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1326 - 02/01/20 at 18:38:46
 
Arch, I can pretty much get anything.  There is a hardwood store about 20 min from me that stocks all the staples plus exotics.  6/4, 8/4 etc.
What they don't have they can get.  What really sells me is that they do those precision cuts for a buck.  I have them do all the critical cuts and it lowers the stress level immensely.

I priced out several types of wood and the treads were the easiest and cheapest route.  It took me about 30 minutes to glue up the three treads for each baffle.  

Much better than planing multiple boards, gluing them up, etc. And only $175 including the cuts.  The 36" treads are even cheaper.  The next closest thing in terms of cost was the $269 ea. ($538 for two) butcher block posted recently.

Here is pretty much my final product.  I may still add some mass to the base, but other than that, any additional effort will go into the medium sized baffle.

BTW, thanks on the Howard Feed-N-Wax suggestion.  Super easy to apply, nice finish and much better smell than paste wax.

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Archie
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1327 - 02/01/20 at 19:19:26
 
I guess my hesitation comes from the need to laminate the treds.  In the past I've worked with 8/4, S2S, FAS Red Oak that was pretty amazing.  Home Depot has a way of blowing pricing away though.
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1328 - 02/01/20 at 19:26:25
 
Yeah that is a concern.  If your treads aren’t really flat it could be a problem.  I did Baltic birch for the crystal 10s and it was pretty easy but the ply was flat and it was only two boards per baffle.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1329 - 02/01/20 at 23:15:47
 
Pal,

Those baffles look super nice using the oak stair treads. I see you painted the outside rim of the F-15 driver black as well. I hope you're enjoying the heck out of them. My Caintuck Lii 15's in Randy's smaller baffles continue to  amaze me on a daily basis.

Cheers,

HK
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Palomino
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1330 - 02/01/20 at 23:30:47
 
Yeah the last few details were to put the plugs in to cover the lag bolts, wax them and do the black rim.  I’m pretty happy with it.  They are the nicest baffles I’ve done to date.  Very appreciative of Steve/Randy sharing the design and everyone else’s .02.
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Alex
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1331 - 02/01/20 at 23:56:42
 
JBuzz, getting the angles wasn't bad. The build isn't 100% complete. I still need to apply the insulation to the top, bottom and the front. And then I need to seal them. I also need to add the tubes to the ports. Once done, it should sound better.
Oh and Lii Audio informed me that they have a 10" coming to the market. It will be just like the Fast 10 but with the mild mids and hi's of the 15". So I'm contemplating switching the new 10" with my old Fast 10.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1332 - 02/02/20 at 00:03:54
 
Ive decided to make my OB to look like the head of a cobra, which is where the driver will be, and it will taper of 2" on both sides until it gets to the base where it will curve into the blocks on the bottom. So it will look like an inverted "L", slighting leaning back. It'll be like a rectifier tuber tapering off at the bottom to about 2 inches. It will look something similar to this image without the top horizontal layer. The base will be like the Betsy base though.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1333 - 02/02/20 at 00:39:46
 

Here they are playing my 11 minute digital sampler...



https://decware.wistia.com/medias/eyf93ss70r

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1334 - 02/02/20 at 06:30:20
 
I went with the Beats on an Ipad for this demo. Mainly to do an A B between the two on Safari browser.  I was too lazy to go downstairs and grab the SOL Republic headphones.

Do I here tone control adjustments? Silly question, right? When doing the comparison between the C10's and F15's, I could not escape the thought that Steve is adjusting a new tone control on his amps! Very expensive tone control and cumbersome to adjust moving the speakers around and all Grin.
The highs on both the speakers is top notch and similar. The mids, I believe, correlate with the bass on both sets. C10's shallow bass effects the mids to the point of being lean(probably the reason for yesterdays comment). F15's bass is predominate and carries to a fuller mid presentation. Matter of preferences...mine F15.
Steve going forward, it might be worth to get the SPL meter out and try to compensate for the efficiency differences for a speaker comparison. It is obvious your amp is on a pleasure cruise driving these speakers!. Just saying Wink

Pal, your F15Ls look stunning. Good job! I may start small with the F15's upon arrival. Randy's Betsy baffle pair can be created with just two 48" stair treads with enough excess material to create some sort of base frame. I can always move up to the larger size.

HK, how does your F15 Betsy compare to the F15L? Bass?

Thanks
John
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1335 - 02/02/20 at 12:49:12
 
Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1257 - 01/22/20 at 20:51:18  




https://decware.wistia.com/medias/ahifccwmbl

"Here is the same track on the well seasoned cherry pair.

Steve"

It's hard for me to believe that someone selling high-end audio products would use vocal auto-tune as rendered by a 25 cent chip to purpose of demonstrating own wares. But there it is.

Auto-tune brings out the instant 'smash it with a hammer right now!' response within two seconds, here. It is the most unnatural and most grating sound imaginable.

Keeping hammer out in the storage room is the only reason my computer survives, to this day.

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1336 - 02/02/20 at 13:31:10
 
I didn't mean to be harsh, but that's just where it is re my ears vs. auto-tune (in)tolerance.

In any case, I have 'home and financial' issues to get through first, but I look forward to getting a Zen amplifier and a Caintuck 15" 'Betsy Lee' about ten-twelve months from now.

Thanks to Randy and especially to Steve for making all these wonderful things available to us.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1337 - 02/02/20 at 13:44:27
 
Steve wrote (and I meant to respond to earlier but ended up forgetting to):

"With all the speaker designs I've explored over the years, the Radial being one of my favorites, these speakers have a very similar way that they flood the room and walls with coherent sound.  You can enjoy the sound anywhere in the space or adjacent space, just like a radial, and if you think about it... since sound comes off both the entire front and entire back, it's like the egg speaker I did, but actually better because when you walk up on it, it doesn't zing you in the eye, the sound is mild up close which gives you great confidence to trust that you are hearing the actual recordings. But unlike the Radials, they have very serious projection which comes across as dynamics, scale and weight.  It's like the best of both worlds, similar to the HR-1 speakers but with more projection and better efficiency.  So this is why I love them so much. I equate them to the radial design as they satisfy many of the same objectives with even less complexity.

You can think of them as a horizontal radial without a box instead of a vertical radial with a box.  Since the room is a cube of some sorts, and sound has no concept of up or down, the end result is much the same between the two.
"

Thanks for that, it was really helpful for me. This gave me a clear idea of the speakers and how they work in rooms.

It's unfortunate that I could only possibly get away with Randy's version of an open baffle speaker in any area of my home, and that I am unlikely to have another home or another area of the home to use any of these hardwood designs that are so beautiful!

But since these things are so I am lucky to have two sets of HR-1 (and a pair of ERR not in use) as these speakers, over the years, have become "the other half of my ears." I have really found ways to make them fantastic communicators of the music I love, and even though I do think if I had the right room and space the extra weight, impact, scale and efficiency of these marvelous Big Betsys would be incredible, for my purposes, listening areas and source material the HR-1 (without the latest modifications) are just near perfect for me, and I am grateful for all the hard work you and Bob put into these speakers that I have bonded with so heavily.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1338 - 02/02/20 at 15:35:34
 

Quote:
It's hard for me to believe that someone selling high-end audio products would use vocal auto-tune as rendered by a 25 cent chip to purpose of demonstrating own wares. But there it is.


If you have been following the thread, you already know the highly compressed track was selected to break-in the new F15 drivers, not to demonstrate our wares.  And in fact what was being demonstrated is the difference between a broken-in driver and a non broken-in driver.  
In fact the demonstration came with a clear disclaimer about that track.

I share your distain for auto-tune microphones in todays pop music and much of todays pop music period... but this track was from the 1980's, long before autotune, and the auto-tune sounding part was in fact a synth effect.

Steve

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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1339 - 02/02/20 at 17:22:31
 
Dear Sir,

I overstated the case, misspoke, and all the rest.

I was just disturbed and distraught at hearing auto-tune on the site at all. My ears are too overly sensitive to begin with, which is why the Zen amplifier 'scared me away' for some years.

I am troubled that auto-tune is seemingly so indelible in any and everything nowadays.

I'll get over it, I suppose, once I get a Zen amp into my listening space, along with the Caintuck 15" baffles, and get my own music into the affair. Yes, I understood your purpose to begin with, but I think I or anyone else has the right, and in fact obligation, to eradicate auto-tune wherever it arises. That's all it was.

I think that it's obvious to anyone in the forum (as I have within been 'lurking' for years) that you are very conscientious about the sensibilities of others' ears. I hope you take my criticism as only that, not anything like condemnation. I respect your and others' ears, too.

Once I get this condo cleaned up and repaired, you and your crew will have an order coming. I should have waited to comment. I have some things that might be considered as a contribution by some, but it might be best if I have something from Decware in hand to begin with, so as to have common reference with others in this forum.

In the meantime, thank you for your understanding.


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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1340 - 02/02/20 at 17:29:19
 
I was listening to Philip Glass play some of his piano works this morning and I remembered a conversation I had with Steve 5 or 6 years ago when I was first into Decware.  I told him that I've never been fooled into thinking that the play-back piano I was hearing was a real piano in my living room (which I have).  He told me that neither had he.

I can now report, that with the F15s in the large baffle, that has changed.   Smiley

Like all things Decware, the best advice I can give is to jump right in!
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1341 - 02/02/20 at 17:38:43
 
"but this track was from the 1980's, long before autotune, and the auto-tune sounding part was in fact a synth effect."

Sorry, I forgot to address this item.

I meant to say whatever particular device is not the issue, but the effect. If there was something just as obnoxious as auto-tune in the 1980's, then so be it.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1342 - 02/02/20 at 20:14:59
 

Hehe, we're both equally offended by autotune, and I knew what you meant... If not for the fact that there are new people who jump into this thread every day starting on the current page of course, who might think we actually chose that track to demo our equipment with...  I would have never felt the need to defend it!   Wink



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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1343 - 02/03/20 at 17:53:43
 
Hi, I'm new to the forum, but I have read every page about the Betsys and I'm excited to build my own.

I'm planning to build a little smaller Betsy, but larger than the Caintuck Audio Lii 15. I'm awaiting the delivery of two F-15 from Lii Audio.

The baffle are planned to be 38/60x77 cm. (Sorry, no inches in Europe...)
I will build it in rosewood (real slow grown rosewood) and mahogany, 3 cm thick.
The base and front legs will perhaps be in oak, or other heavy wood, maybe painted black for a good contrast to the beautiful baffle.

What do you think? Will my planned size be OK?

This is my first post in the forum so I cannot link to my drawing.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1344 - 02/03/20 at 20:42:46
 
I think in inches, you are saying it will be about 30" tall by 24 wide.  If so, then yes, that's about right.  I think its around 1cm = .39 inches.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1345 - 02/03/20 at 20:51:48
 
Quote:
Posted by: Palomino      Posted on: Today at 20:42:46
I think in inches, you are saying it will be about 30" tall by 24 wide.  If so, then yes, that's about right.  I think its around 1cm = .39 inches.


Yes, that's the size in inches. It's a scaled down Big Betsy to fit my listening room. Both of the Big Betsys are too big for me, and I wanted something larger than the Caintuck Lii 15.
With that baffle size I can add a super tweeter in one of the upper corners if I feel the need for it. I have two Fostex FT15H that I think could be good for that.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1346 - 02/03/20 at 21:07:26
 
Dennis,

That should be fine. My baffles are about 2" bigger each direction. I have Crystals in mine. Some of us have to let the room dictate what we can use. I've seen quite a few favorable reviews of Randy's baffles with the F15's, so your plan should work great.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1347 - 02/03/20 at 21:09:41
 
Geno,

That sounds lovelly.

Here is my drawing.
http://malina.se/Betsy_project/Dennis_Betsy_Baffle.jpg
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1348 - 02/03/20 at 22:06:10
 
Dennis, on your drawing, the diameter hole 36cm for the F15 might be too big, I made it 34.5cm and the drawing given by Lii is even smaller 33cm. with 36cm I am afraid you won't have enough material left between the screw and the driver hole.
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Re: Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Reply #1349 - 02/03/20 at 22:13:44
 
Thank’s Tooppy!
Actually I was too quick making this drawing and I more or less guessed the diameter. I will of course double check every dimension before cutting and drilling. I will publish pictures of my project later when I have started.

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