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Augie Style OB Bass (Read 63720 times)
stone_of_tone
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Augie Style OB Bass
04/24/17 at 18:11:51
 
What do I need to make one of these. Comprehensive list. Thanks.

Or buy one? Randy, Caintuck.....I did not see on his site for sale.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #1 - 04/24/17 at 20:52:09
 
Unless you have a router and some mediocre wood skills (me), buy from Randy.  He may have stopped listing them due to uncertainty on Augie supply, but you can get them.

Alternatively, you could buy the Augie direct and buy a flat pack from Randy if he doesn't have any in stock.

What you need for a setup is one (preferably two) Augies, one plate amp for each Augie and some speaker wire.  I use an older two channel Crown Amp, so I had to make a cord for R and L sides with a 600 ohm resistor.  This way I can run it off the speaker taps on my Decware amp.

I have integrated two Augies easily with my DIY monoliths.  I haven't found a pair of speakers yet that didn't integrate easily.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #2 - 04/24/17 at 21:31:51
 
stone where have you been getting all your $$ lately!  lol

driver: last we all checked you could still get augies from hawthorne direct (till supply is gone).  

baffles:  call randy for a flat pack, or DBC for one of his 1.5" thick baffles, or make your own.

amp:  plate amps will work but i prefer to use Gallo Ref SA with mine.  you can find them used for $350-400 if you watch.  it's a very versatile amp full range, or crossed, with volume/crossover/boost/phase.  and can run mono or stereo.  only thing i don't like is the fan noise.  i've bought 2 of them.  

and Palomino is right they blend with anything.  i am currently using a pair with my tricked out MG1.6QR's.  and yes you will want 2x of them Wink

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #3 - 04/24/17 at 23:49:27
 
Pal, thanks, I will email Randy and see if I can get one fully finished.

Trip, thanks, I remember looking at the SA Gallo Sub Amp, when I had my Gallo's 2013/14. I will keep an eye out.... But for now I will get a plate amp from PartsExpress. I will start with one Augie..... .

Nice to read from both of you, the Augie will integrate well for both my Adagio's and Monoliths.

I said to myself: "You guys are loving these and DBC too; I have got to check this out."

What power should I get for my plate amp?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #4 - 04/25/17 at 01:25:22
 
Howdy Stone,

Yep ..... I stopped listing the Augie baffles on my site since they seem to be out of production for now and I have no idea how many that Darrel has left in stock.

As an alternative, I have been offering the "poor man's Augie" ..... the Eminence Alpha 15" driver as well as the 12" version.
As you well know, audio is largely personal taste and opinion ..... and when I had my storefront open I had both Augie and Alpha baffles available for audition. Interestingly enough, I sold more of the Alpha baffles than I did the Augie baffles.

Of course, the difference in price (350.00 vs 175.00) might have had a little to do with that ..... but I have to say that I'm running a couple of Alpha baffles in my home system currently and have no complaints.

If I had to describe the difference in sound ..... the Augie is a little tighter and drier sounding and the Alpha is a little warmer sounding.
The 15" Alpha goes lower than the 12" Alpha ..... the 12" Alpha is tighter than the 15" Alpha.

If you have an amplifier that enables you to control the crossover point, volume and phase, any of the drivers can sound good with some dialing in and experimentation.

There is something special about the sound of OB bass ..... the same as with OB mains .....

If you have any additional questions or I can be of further help, shoot me a PM or an email to the address on my website.

Happy listening,
Randy
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #5 - 04/25/17 at 02:03:46
 
Thanks Randy! I will email you tomorrow morning.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #6 - 04/25/17 at 07:07:23
 
Stone,
Randy's advice is sound and having his Betsy's and Augie's, I have come to trust his taste and judgement.  I have not heard the Alpha's.  I have a pair of Randy's 15" Augie's and they are magical.  I came off a Vienna Acoustics Subson sealed subwoofer which was produced and marketed as a "music first" subwoofer.  It was not cheap at $2500 MSRP.  Randy's dual OB Augies makes me forget about the Subson and wish I had adopted these beauties years ago.  

One recommendation I would make is spend a little more and get either a Crown amp or a Dayton SA-1000 dedicated subwoofer amp.  I have the Snell 750 which is a rebadged SA-1000 and it is superb.  I have heard lots of glowing reviews of the Crown amps and their price point makes it one of those great "bang for your buck" amps that deliver far beyond their price point, like the Dayton.  

I really hope Hawthorne has some stock of the Augie's.  If they have them, Randy can get them.   From what I can assume about your audio preferences based on the general content of your thread posts, the Augie's will be your jam.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #7 - 04/25/17 at 14:08:59
 
PM sent Randy.

Hi Jeff, nice suggestions. I checked out the Dayton SA-1000. I do not have RCA line outs for this units line inputs. Also, a lot of power there, for my smaller room.

I loved my CSP3 with Jupiter Caps + it had the Sub RCA out. However, I've gone the purest route....and love my ZMA solo! +, my NOS Platinum input tubes....shine through the best this way too.

So, how do I get some weight back/when I want it, in lieu of my CSP3?....BINGO....OB out of the Box (colorations)!   ......you guys have been enjoying. Maybe, I add a 2nd,...but I will start with one. Randy let me know, if I wanted the Augie(s) later....I can purchase while supplies last and the same cut out and holes....I will already have in my existing baffle.  

I'm going to go with one Alpha Eminence 15", fully finished OB, stained in Walnut from Randy, with a Dayton SPA250..../156 watts RMS 8 ohm, into the 8 ohm Alpha.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #8 - 04/25/17 at 16:29:18
 
Yeah Stone, the sub out is something I take for granted with my Ultra so good catch.  

I was wavering between the Eminence and Augie as they both get rave reviews.  I am sure with Randy's baffles, you can't go wrong with either one.  They are beasts and certainly one is enough.  I didn't get two because I needed more SPLs on the low end.  I installed two for balance.  It is something special to have low end coming evenly from both side.  

Great thing is, you can start with one and simply add the other, as you stated.  I have an inkling that you will be adding that second one in a New York minute Smiley
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #9 - 04/25/17 at 16:55:21
 
Stone, I started with that same setup (except an Augie instead of 15a).  Like Jeff suggests, I went to 2 and the Crown pretty quickly.  Pretty addicting stuff.  My room is pretty small too:16.5 X 12.5.

But that is the nice thing about it, you can buy another, swap out the 15a's move to another amp at will.

I kept the 250 plate amp and now use it in a secondary OB system with some junk 15" woofers I pulled from some thrift store Sony speakers.  They still produce bass which is better than any sub I have heard.  One day I will upgrade those woofers and maybe buy another Crown if the price is right.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #10 - 04/25/17 at 17:03:21
 
i will be doing 1 or 2 alpha 15's also, to go with my betsy's in the 2ch ht.  can't have too many lfob's!

stone,
i think you'll find the best results running a 2nd set of speaker wires from your main amp to the high level speaker inputs on the plate amp.  once i switched from rca lowlevel to speaker high level, i've never gone back.

note the alpha 15's can be wired full range too using same amp as your main speakers.  this is the way DBC does his.  no crossover or anything.  sounds pretty damn great too.  we did this with the dm947's (speaker only) at his house several months ago too.  worked great.  so i'd try it with and without the plate amp.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #11 - 04/25/17 at 22:29:26
 
I run 4 15" Alphas. They seem to give me enough bass.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #12 - 04/25/17 at 23:58:08
 
This is awesome guys (Jeff, Pal & Trip)! I can't wait to start with the one Alpha. Trip, DBC just told me about his passive connection.....thanks for the reiteration....and no x-over or cap to try full bore.....that needs to be heard. +, with integration of my Dayton SPA250 ranges. Trip, no RCA line level connection for me.....as stated above/post.

Donnie, you crazy MF.... Grin ....are you really running that many....you're yankin' my chain....... .

Pal, which Crown do you have?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #13 - 04/26/17 at 00:27:17
 
Stone,
I sure do run 4 Alphas. I also ran them for a while with a couple of 100 watt Dayton plate amps. The experience was sublime.
The front Alpha uses a Parts Express Low Pass filter set at 100 Hz. The rear Alpha runs full range like DBC runs his.
Ask around, they work pretty well.





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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #14 - 04/26/17 at 00:53:50
 
The first version.  The XLS1000.  $150 delivered from eBay.  I haven't seen it at that price since.   Closer to $200 now.

To run the Augies off the crown, I had to make up a speaker wire with a 600 ohm resister that runs from the positive speaker post on the amp to the RCA input on the crown.  An extra step but it works fine.  It has a digital  xover which I think I have set around 70-80.   I run the attenuation at around the 2:00 position.  Better bass than I heard on any of the rigs at axpona.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #15 - 04/26/17 at 13:45:09
 
Very nice Pal. Maybe, I will graduate up to that Crown. One on Ebay right now that is tempting XLS1000/$149.

However, I'm going to get my feet wet first, by just hooking it up full like DBC has it and Donnie's rear Alpha's. Donnie, I stand corrected...those are sweet Speakers!

Randy is shipping mine on Monday! I will have it Wednesday or Thursday. Only two day ground shipping from him to me....so even three day...gets her to me on Thursday.

Donnie? You don't use the Dayton Plate Amps anymore? You run direct from Torii power...........Tang band's and Alpha's? They are that efficient...so I bet/looks like you are!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #16 - 04/26/17 at 16:02:58
 
Check the shipping on that one Stone.  A lot of times they build in $50 shipping which is outrageous.  The thing is feather weight.

Now you guys got me thinking I need to try the 15a's.  Or I am also intrigued by the 12" version.  OB Bass driver rolling.  The next craze.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #17 - 04/26/17 at 17:22:57
 
I like my Crown a lot - it's my main amp for both home theater subwoofer, and augmenting whatever two channel mains I'm using.

I have the slightly newer version with the high sensitivity inputs.

I got an open box from Amazon Warehouse Deals for about half the new cost. It was missing box and manual, but looked brand new, still had the plastic on the screen.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywor...
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #18 - 04/26/17 at 17:39:06
 
How do you have it wired?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #19 - 04/26/17 at 18:37:04
 
My PS Audio Directstream has both Balanced and RCA. Paul said I shouldn't run both, but I could try it and see if it works...something about impedance.

So the Mystery Amp takes Balanced and the RCA goes to the Crown. When I was running the Zen amp, I did just the opposite - RCA to Zen, and Balanced to Crown. Both sound good - I'm looking forward to finding time to build the second 18" woofer so I can do it in proper stereo.

If I wasn't using the dual outputs of the Direct Stream, I'd probably use the 600ohm speaker level trick  you were doing.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #20 - 04/26/17 at 22:44:43
 
Stone,
Yes I run everything off of my Torii. It pushes them very nicely.
I had the plate amps for my "Cheech & Chong memorial quarter wave subs" and I tied them into my Alpha's for a few days just to really push the bass.
My speakers bass sounds just a little uncontrolled compared to Palo's Augi-Crown combo. It really is a small but noticeable difference.
When I added the plate amps things really livened up. But I needed the amps to piss my neighbor off, so they are in the garage right now.
I have strange priorities.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #21 - 04/27/17 at 16:33:35
 
Cool priorities in my book, Donnie.

I probably won't mind that little bit of uncontrolled for a broader under-pinning Range...... .

I have my single OB 15" Alpha coming next Wed or TH. I will hook it up from the left channel only/direct. I want to wrap my brain around it with out a plate Amp. Granted, I'm not summing left and right....but I will get a good taste of it.....depends on the mix. I use spades out and to my Mains...and have banana Kimber 8TC out and to the OB...for a nice easy clean concise connection(s).

I will either bring in a plate amp next or order another OB from Randy for my right channel 8TC banana connection.  Can't wait to lay down a deeper foundation under my Monoliths and Adagio's too.

Pal & LR, you have me pumped for a potential Crown Amp. However, I'm going to unfold my ear/brain to this as described above....and see where I arrive in a month or two.   Cool/fun!

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #22 - 04/27/17 at 17:12:54
 
I realize too, if I dig the capability of the range the Alpha covers via no plate amp(s)....and go above moderate listening levels....I might have to reinforce the back of the baffle or baffles, if I buy the 2nd one, with some serious dense MDF, or get overall thicker baffles. Only because, Randy designed these to be run with plate Amp/ranges....and beautifully affordable.

However, I'm only guessing at that....for me.....and I will hear how it goes........... .
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #23 - 04/27/17 at 17:34:52
 
Stone, I started out slow, but became a full OB bass addict pretty quickly.  Now its affecting my family life, work, even my relationship with my dog.

My road to addiction went this way:

1.  One augie and the Parts Express 250 plate amp in a rather poorly done baffle using an old veneered shelf I had lying around.  Run with the DIY 947s.

2.  Two augies summed to mono on the 250, both in the same veneered shelf material + 947s

3.  Two augies in the same baffles running off a class D amp wide open + 947.  I didn't like them run wide open as some people report doing with the 15A.  But I realized class D amp = good.

4.  Two augies in the same shelf baffles with a Crown (and the 600 ohm "magic cables"

5.  Two augies in the same baffles + the Tang Band 1880s in another baffle tacked on to the top of the shelf material baffles using drywall screws with the crown running the augies and the Torii running the tang bands.

6.  Built two Pure Audio project style duo's with the Tang Bands and Augies using 3/4" Baltic birch ply.  Same amps.

7.  A Spatial OB style baffle with 1.5" MDF and offset driver "a la Donnie".  Moved to Rachael for the tang band amp.   This is where I stopped.  Sounds good, especially after I got the idea here on the board to do extreme toe-in.  This set up has kept my attention now for several weeks.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #24 - 04/29/17 at 20:06:21
 
Pal, that is a journey in OB alright.

I'm enjoying my DM's to much right now. I have my OB Eminence coming as stated next week. I'm going to run it full from 46 Hz – 3.5 kHz, as Donnie runs his rear pair of Alpha 15" OB and DBC runs his pair too.

So, I was kicking myself, I gave a friend my Plate Amp I had for my old Parker's lower bass units. However, I remembered, I have another Plate Amp! My old Velodyne Sub, has 130 watt Amp. I extracted it....and have everything set up to go + wire. If I'm not digging the up to 3.5kHz....Plate Amp is ready to roll! (Saved myself $150.00)!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #25 - 04/30/17 at 00:53:55
 
Today I made 1" MDF baffles for my Betsys and thrift store 15s.  Total cost for these speakers will be around $200.  Glad I held on to my plate amp as well.  With the Torii these things crank.

This will be my cottage system along with a bifrost uber Dac and my old Mac mini.  Will run optical until I get a new dac that can run USB.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #26 - 05/02/17 at 13:50:27
 
Alpha OB, arriving Wednesday. I am all set up, to run with and without plate amp. I'm going without plate first, out of the gate/to get a sense of it-up at 3.5kHz.

Any thoughts on placement? Randy suggested, to also try sideways to speaker placement.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #27 - 05/02/17 at 13:57:06
 
Stone, part of the reason I jumped to two of them so quickly was that, as you know, bass up that high is directional.  

Right in the middle as Randy tends to place them was best, but not a long term option in my room.

BTW, I had stands for my 947 clones and ran them with and without the base cabinets with the Augies.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #28 - 05/02/17 at 15:39:15
 
Thanks for the reminder Pal.....bass up that high is directional. For that reason and also up that high, the open baffle is being stressed too/vibration.

Out of the gate.....I'm using my plate amp (as intended by Randy's design). Plus, I would only be coming out of one channel to hear it up at 3.5k.....yes a taste....but not the other channel separate or summed, obviously. I want that perpendicular versatility for either side of my room too (besides the frontal plane). I will find the best place this OB shines..... .

I have no stands to try my 947's without the Monoliths. I could put them on the floor, tilted up....but no. I have them well positioned and want the Monolith bass they are producing + OB bass.

Pal, did you like them with or without the Monolith bases? You also prefer obviously running them with you Crown and not direct. Albeit, I'm only running one for now...... .

Eventually, I will try it direct/curious, one channel direct from ZMA.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #29 - 05/02/17 at 15:43:18
 
I preferred them without the base for bass clarity.  However, I think I lost some of the imaging benefits of the rear pointed horn if that makes any sense.  Keep in mind that I built these bases and I doubt they are anywhere near the specs of a Decware built product.

I'd stick them on some milk crates or cement bricks and see how they sound.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #30 - 05/02/17 at 15:48:31
 
Cool thanks, I will get them up on something to hear without monolith bases.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #31 - 05/02/17 at 16:12:59
 
Stone,

Here are your EXACT speakers that Tripwr1964 brought down to my place for a listen with my full range SLAB's. These are on IsoAcoustic stands tilted UP. I have the IsoAcoustic on SubDudes here simply because I had been experimenting with different speaker positions and the SubDudes slide easily. The stands work well directly the floor. These are the medium IsoAcustic which are cheap compared to most monitor stands and the Isolation really works.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R155



I have found that with monitors this type of mounting (closer to the floor) actually reinforces (boosts) the monitors low frequency output. Strangely enough, there is no sense that the soundstage is lower because the speakers are lower to the floor and tilted.

The other night I listened to my system with just the Left SLAB as positioned above. The effect of just the one was about 70% compared to both combined. The Single SLAB didn't do anything weird to the soundstage. System still sounds a lot better with one SLAB vs. None.

DBC

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #32 - 05/02/17 at 16:23:27
 
I've heard the Monoliths at Decware, they are great speakers. Only problem I have with towers these days is they can Load-Up a room with bass. Even in Steve's perfectly treated room I've heard these overload the room on the low end on some material.

The combination of just the monitors and properly sized OB's will not overload the room. Typically towers go lower than monitors but the towers added cabinet volume while boosting the lower frequencies does tend to diminish the control and accuracy of bass in many cases.

Once you have heard OB bass, you begin to realize what cabinet noise or coloration is. I've run my Klipsch RF-7's (big floor standers) with the SLAB's. The combo sounds good but you can tell the bass from the RF-7's lacks the control of the SLAB's. I much prefer the Decware Monitor / SLAB combination compared to the Klipsch RF-7 / SLAB combo which seems similar to Pal's experience.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #33 - 05/03/17 at 14:57:14
 
Thanks DBC, for the tip on the stands! Affordable. I have done business with Sweetwater (Headphones & Auralex Subdude).....like SW a lot. I probably will get them. Yeah, it's nice to have the exact Decware DM's you listened too. I love them via: ZDSD>ZMA>DM947 Monoliths (all Kimber Kable Select).

I'm going back to my original stated hookup first.....full range to 3.5k, left channel only (70% there & soundstage still very good-you stated).....with monoliths attached. Then left & right thru Velodyne Plate Amp.

Then, both ways stated, with them on a couple of chairs....to simulate stands.

DBC, I noticed you have your SLAB's wired from the Speakers and not the Amp?

No delivery today  :'( .....tomorrow my local UPS gets their shipment between 12 and 2pm.....hooked up by 3:30pm  8-)
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #34 - 05/03/17 at 15:42:41
 
I wanted to add: I have read the reports of the Monolith bases loading to much bass in Rooms?

I have no such problem. It is not because of/or without Acoustic treatments either (in which, I do have). It is my KS6063 Speaker Cables, that are so well balanced and controlled. Yes, put in 8TC...which is my control sample wires...you get some bass energy.

I owned the KS3033 for 15 years, then KS3035 for 3 years....and now the KS6063....which is special at getting out of the way of the music. Could the Select line be tone controls? Maybe, but everything in our Systems can be considered a tone control. Tubes Amps are actually tone controls we prefer over ick solid state! Whatever, the case, the KS's work.

Note: I did not pay the original retail price on the KS6063. I got a like new demo pair from the CableCo, for 54% off. I have Pelican Case and can/will travel...........willing to bring them anyware and watch the reactions.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #35 - 05/03/17 at 15:58:09
 
I have had troubles overloading the room with mine Stone.  Lots of peaks and nulls.  I moved my listening position a couple of times to counteract the effects.  I have a lot more latitude with the OBs.  Sure, I can still overload the room if I crank the crown, but in the good listening groove, its quite detailed.

I don't remember who I got this from, but its the best bass test song I have found.  Slave Song by Sade.  If your bass is very good, you get the detail and individual bass notes going up and down, if not, it sounds mushy and definitely one note syndrome.   This song is still challenging to my system/room, but in certain setups I am happy with what I hear.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #36 - 05/03/17 at 16:18:34
 
Got it, we are talking articulation vs. one note syndrome overload boom boom. We are not talking smearing of good bass because of no room treatment. I have that song....from Sade/Lover's Rock. I will listen to.

I am pumped to get this first OB.....and I'm betting getting these off the Monoliths and on there own stands + Bass OB's is the ticket......in which you guys know. ....I need to catch up..... .
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #37 - 05/03/17 at 17:36:15
 
Okay, I just created speaker stands by turning the Monoliths 90 degree's (upper part towards each wall). Stable, fine and decoupled. I think you're right Palomino, you do lose some soundstage without the lower Horn Bass backwards firing?!

Anyway, this set up will suffice for now and I will keep it this way to add in my OB tomorrow, run full range/one channel....then plate amp/summed. Obviously, not ideal....created a little wall with the liths' turned this way. I will get them on some stable folding chairs....turned sideways.

I'm guessing OB Bass.....stays away subjectively, from the mid-bass hump aspect/monitors with sub....full range or 2 ch/plate amp summed?

Visualizing and now looking at the Hertz chart for loudspeakers....this OB should overlay and in nicely/run full range.....with just the DM947's.

Remembering, full range is totally directional from the front plane and with the plate amp, I get to use the sides of my Room...if it works.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #38 - 05/03/17 at 22:58:49
 
Hey guys,

I thought I would share a photo that my good buddy Tim sent me yesterday.

A while back, I built a pair of Augie baffles for him from 1" thick solid walnut and they turned out really nice.
They are beasts for sure ..... very heavy and solid .....

Right now, he is powering them with a Crown amp and paired with some Betsy baffles in walnut veneered plywood.
His main amplifier is a HIGHLY modified Decware Zen B that has evolved over the years and to quote Mr. Deckert the amplifier is so resolving that "you can hear a gnat fart" if it's on the recording .....

Tim tells me that this setup is working very well after countless hours of moving things around and doing some critical listening .....



Tim has a fine pair of ears, so I 'm thinking that the setup is sounding pretty good. I need to take a trip to his home to hear it.

Larger photo here.

Other than too much sunlight on the right side of the room, it looks pretty cool to me .....

Happy listening,
Randy
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #39 - 05/03/17 at 23:13:50
 
Nice!

Interesting on the "side firing" bass drivers.

I went to my local hardwood store last weekend and checked out the prices on various dense hardwoods $$$$$$$$$.  Not much that wide there.

Also, I'd like to know what kind of bit you are using and if you get to use said bit more than once on that kind of wood Grin

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #40 - 05/03/17 at 23:32:40
 
OK, I dug around in my wifes CD's and found the Sade track and loaded into my computer.
What am I supposed to be hearing?
I hear the bass player is standing on the left side and the notes are separate. It doesn't sound like a clapped out Chevy Caprice thumping in the parking lot of the Dollar General, so I'm taking that as a good sign.
Am I missing anything?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #41 - 05/03/17 at 23:34:33
 
Can you hear any variance in the bass notes or do they sound pretty much the same.  Its one thing for them to be separate.  Its another thing to hear the tune he's playing.

And Donnie, embrace your inner Sade.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #42 - 05/03/17 at 23:36:54
 
Palo,
I was just thinking the same thing as you about the side firing bass. All I would need to do is turn my back baffle 90 degrees. I have some really cool tools....
I also have looked at live edge hardwoods in the past, a little on the pricy side, but I have been known to throw fiscal responsibility to the wind before.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #43 - 05/03/17 at 23:39:03
 
Palo,
I must say that this Sade album really really sucks. Not even close to my bad taste in music.
And yes the notes sound different, maybe just a bit flabby.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #44 - 05/03/17 at 23:40:17
 
Quote:
Also, I'd like to know what kind of bit you are using and if you get to use said bit more than once on that kind of wood


Hi Palomino,

When I first started building the Betsy baffles, I found a supplier in PA that had quite a few different species of wood in 18" widths ..... but over time most (if not all) of the types they sold me became unavailable.
The only hardwood I'm currently able to get on a regular basis in that width is Sapele (African mahogany) and Bubinga (African rosewood).

I refuse to make any more from the Bubinga because it is a pain in the butt to work with because of the density of the wood .....

Truthfully, making the baffles from most hardwoods is dicey because even after making the initial cutout with a jigsaw, making the final trim with a top bearing router bit and template tends to take chunks out of the wood when the bit hits the grain the wrong way. I have ruined many a good looking board and even removing a very small amount with the router ends up being a disaster 50% of the time.

Routing the opening for the driver is never a problem ..... but the outside edge can be a real pain. You can be going along and everything seems fine and then you hear the router "change pitch" and the damage is already done.

So ..... right now I'm using my jigsaw with a 20 TPI blade to get as close to the cutout line as possible and finishing the edges with a variety of sanders. I'm getting pretty good at it and of course the plywood is never an issue with the router.

You are certainly correct in presuming that a router bit has a short lifespan when working with some of the hardwoods ..... especially the Bubinga .....

Best wishes,
Randy
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #45 - 05/04/17 at 00:07:16
 
BTW ..... I have made an "executive decision" .....

It appears that there are still a few Hawthorne Audio Augie drivers in Darrel's inventory that he would like to move.

It doesn't seem logical to incur double shipping charges ..... especially considering the weight of these drivers, so if anyone would like to have me build a baffle for an Augie driver and order the driver directly from Darrel, they can mount it themselves.

I will predrill the mounting holes for 1/4" machine bolts which I highly recommend because of the weight of the driver. For the Alpha driver, I am quite comfortable using self tapping pan head screws because the Alpha weighs a fraction of what the Augie weighs and the pan head screws have worked very well over the past couple of years.

I currently have a rift cut red oak plywood Augie baffle that I made for a customer who decided he wanted something different after it was finished.



If someone could use it, I will accept a reasonable offer .....

In addition to the normal "glue and screw" base mounting, it also has decorative antique brass chair braces on the back side ..... again because of the weight of the driver.

Anyone who owns Augie drivers knows what I'm referring to concerning the weight .....

Happy listening,
Randy




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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #46 - 05/04/17 at 00:41:32
 
Gentlemen/ Ladies if you have been toying with the idea I would encourage you to act now.  While I am convinced you can get great sound out of the alphas I remain partial to the Augies.

And Donnie, sorry to do the Sade thing to you but chalk it up to advancing your knowledge of the dark audio arts.  Sounds like double down low design does Sade.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #47 - 05/04/17 at 01:52:31
 
Palo - lmao!

I had to go refresh my memory on that sade tonight...

2x on the augies... love mine.

Ive heard some pretty great 15a's too in dbc's thick baffles.

I dont think you can go wrong eitherway, however i still want to try a pair of 15a's running full range off 1 set amp (like dbc).  If i didnt hear it i wouldnt have believed it.
Cant do that with augies... ive tried.  You need some power for those.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #48 - 05/04/17 at 04:03:30
 
Oh I believe it's possible.  One of the more profoundly satisfying sessions I had was at decfest hearing Steve's corner horns running off the zen mono blocks.  I think there was a xover of some kind but no biamping.

We are cooking up a CDApS meeting where I should be able to hear DBCs SLABS running off Eric's souped up Zen.  Should be good.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #49 - 05/04/17 at 04:27:22
 
Quote:
I think there was a xover of some kind but no biamping.


Yep .... Steve was using 80 HZ low pass filters between the amplifiers and the SO Imperials ..... brilliant .....

They are available from Parts Express.
I have made a couple of hillbilly rigged boxes with binding posts to use with my bass baffles at home ..... as well as a couple of boxes with simple inductors.
The low pass filters roll off at a 12 db slope and the inductor at a 6 db slope.



They both work very well in my opinion.

I still haven't been brave enough to try connecting the bass drivers without the low pass filters or inductors .....

Maybe tomorrow .....

Randy

PS ..... I'm not sure how efficient the drivers are in Steve's SO Imperials, but they have the benefit of horn loading.
The 15" Alpha drivers have a 97 db sensitivity rating ..... quite a bit higher than the Augie driver is (about 89 db if memory serves me).

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #50 - 05/04/17 at 12:57:09
 
97 vs 89 db in an ob is the problem running off single amp.  and ob vs imperial (folded horn) are different animals too.

i tried running my augies with maggies and betsys off my single cary 120 and the 89db augies didn't provide enough to mate with either of these main speakers.

i have no doubt that a 15a would provide enough volume (whether it would sound good is a different story).
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #51 - 05/04/17 at 14:07:29
 
I have run most configurations - direct, plate amp, crown, no xover.  Just not with a mechanical xover.

Run direct, you could hear the augies.  Just not good full range sound though.  A little better with the thrift store 15s.    They are 91db supposedly.

What I heard at Steves lingers in the back of my mind but I like the authority I get when I feed either pair juice from the Crown.

Having heard 15as a few times, my thrift store have a sound more akin to them.  I may run them wide open with the Tang Bands because I think they are a better efficiency match.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #52 - 05/04/17 at 14:49:33
 
Great posts: Randy, Pal, Donnie & Trip........ . I'm soaking it all in for my initiation today, with one Eminence Alpha 15a OB, from Randy. I'm off today....and I should have it by 2pm or so.

My quote button does not work, ....Trip wrote:
"I dont think you can go wrong eitherway, however i still want to try a pair of 15a's running full range off 1 set amp (like dbc).  If i didnt hear it i wouldnt have believed it.
Cant do that with augies... ive tried.  You need some power for those."

I only have one coming today....but I will get a good taste! Yes, you need the sensitivity of the 15a.....and it's what I wanted too. Yeah, sure I have power/ZMA....but, running direct.....I wanted no worries/guaranteeing their success...and I might end up buying a UFO too.

Hey, I might prefer my plate amp in the long run....but, I wanted to ensure success of running direct with 15a('s).....even if I need to reinforce the baffles from behind (if I choose not to run with plate amp ranges and stay direct).
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #53 - 05/04/17 at 15:05:16
 
The UFO I want, is Steve's anniversary (he talked about), tricked out version he made some discoveries when revamping/UFO updating Lonely Raven's. However, the 6C33C Mono's in flat plate.....are on my radar too (but $$).

Anyway, I digress!  OB bass in the house today!  
With DM947's ....with and without Monolith Horn.
With Acoustic Zen Adagio's (modified).

Bring it on.....Party on Wayne....party on Garth.

PS-returned my Tekton Impact Speakers. Eric Alexander is a gentlemen and a scholar. The Impact were wonderful Speakers.....I just prefer the DM's and Adagio's.  I can't keep everything...as much as I wanted to.....but, free's up funds for elsewhere.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #54 - 05/04/17 at 15:32:20
 
super zen, betsys, 15a, all running off the ufo either full or with passive low pass, is my goal for my 2.2 home theater setup.

if it doesn't work i can power the 15a's with spare gallo sa.  but pretty sure it will however.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #55 - 05/04/17 at 15:39:49
 
Very cool Trip. If I prefer the plate amp....then I go on a mission for the Crown sub amp or Gallo sub amp used.

....and true, I could do a passive low pass filter(s) at 80, Randy mentioned he/Steve's running....or at 100, Donnie uses on his front pair of 15a's.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #56 - 05/04/17 at 15:59:05
 

Quote:
However, the 6C33C Mono's in flat plate.....are on my radar too (but $$).


I had put these out of my mind for a while...this is one amp that could have my interest if done right. I like these tubes a lot...it would be better if it were OTL, but, that's just too finicky.

I'm still very happy with my pseudo-anniversary UFO Zen amp. If/When Steve puts something like this into production, I *highly* recommend it.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #57 - 05/04/17 at 16:19:21
 
Yes and yes, I'm fascinated with the 6C33C triode tube (with Steve's Topology behind it)...always have been. If I decide to part with my Adagio's.....and even if the beating I take on them, is bad.....I'm leaning towards the Mono's....with the partial funds. ....just how partial will this be......will see what Steve can provide them at within a year ~ fair enough.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #58 - 05/04/17 at 16:55:34
 
A couple of additional thoughts .....

I am very much enjoying the sound running my Alpha baffles in "passive" mode ..... either with the 100 Hz low pass filters (12 db slope) or with the 13 mH inductors that roll the bass drivers off at a 6 db slope at 98 Hz.

Having said that, I'm still recommending that MOST of my customers use an active plate amp or something like a Crown amp to power their Augie or Alpha baffles.

The reasons .....
First, the Augie is simply not sensitive enough to be used this way in an OB situation in my opinion ..... YMMV.
Second, despite the fact that the passive setup is working well in my listening room it might not work so well in every room.
The plate amp(s) or Crown have greater impact and you can control the volume and crossover point ..... as well as the phase (at least on the plate amps).

Running the bass baffles passive, I get the feeling that the entire musical presentation is "cut from one piece of cloth" ..... but the benefits of active amplification might win the day for a lot of folks.

I entertained the thought of offering the Alpha baffles with either the low pass filter or the inductor built into the box I mount the 5 way binding post on ..... but due to the fact that I cannot know in advance what the outcome will be in the purchaser's system I decided to deep six that option .....

As to bang for the buck, a single Augie or Alpha driver and inexpensive plate amp summing the channels to mono is very hard to beat.
What I hear from "stereo bass" (using two bass baffles and two plate amps or a stereo Crown amp) is a wider sound stage and a better sense of the recorded space or room ..... even on recordings that have no deep bass content.
Again ..... YMMV.

Are we having fun yet ? .....

Randy

Drat ..... I knew that I forgot something .....

The thought of turning the bass baffles 90 degrees in relation to the main speakers is not my original idea.
Pierre Sprey at Mapleshade has recommended this setup and Israel Blume at Coincident Technologies mounts his low frequency drivers in the sides of the cabinets on his larger speakers.
Both of these guys are pretty savvy and it's worth trying.
The WAF might not be the best, but since the quality of the sound is our main goal it's something to consider .....

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #59 - 05/04/17 at 20:30:23
 
Randall, you wonderful beast. Not only is my OB beautifully done.....it sounds beautifully sublime. The integration at 70 Hz, with my Velodyne 130 watt plate amp, 0 degree phase and at 1/3 volume/on plate, is more than something. I have it at 90 degree's of my Speaker's on my left wall, down 2 feet.....out 2 ft to Baffle.

I tried right away and listened to it full range passive and did not like it that way. To much is being asked of it, that way. Your above post could not be more timely. I will enjoy the versatility of trying other area's of the room with ease.....but, I bet it stays right where I put now.


I had a Rel Sub the summer of 2015 and moved it all over the place.....never could it integrate. Open Baffle....BAM!.....I locked it in - in 10 minutes....fast/sensitive....it love's the DM's....MUSICAL INTEGRATION.

Randy wrote:
"As to bang for the buck, a single Augie or Alpha driver and inexpensive plate amp summing the channels to mono is very hard to beat.
What I hear from "stereo bass" (using two bass baffles and two plate amps or a stereo Crown amp) is a wider sound stage and a better sense of the recorded space or room ..... even on recordings that have no deep bass content."

I'm going to enjoy the single for awhile. But I know you won't be surprised if I order another OB from you and get a Crown Amp for "Stereo Bass."
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #60 - 05/04/17 at 20:37:13
 
Stone, your black hooded robe with embroidered open baffle bass speaker insignia and instructions for the secret handshake are on their way.  We'll have a brief swearing in ceremony via Skype.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #61 - 05/04/17 at 20:47:11
 
No doubt, Pal  ;D....I'm having a Vulcan mind melt right now with it. I now know why you guys are digging this. I forgot to mention, I'm running the DM's alone and not ideally set and freaking out....I will be getting the stands DBC recommended. No desire to put the M-liths in............. .
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #62 - 05/04/17 at 20:48:23
 
Quote:
Stone, your black hooded robe with embroidered open baffle bass speaker insignia and instructions for the secret handshake are on their way.  We'll have a brief swearing in ceremony via Skype.


One of many reasons why you're a friend. LOL
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #63 - 05/04/17 at 20:54:22
 
I have some stands for my 945s and a couple of bass speaker baffles I made when I first started down this path.  Maybe I try that configuration again.

Put in a low ball bid on a new crown.  Glad the buyer didn't budge much!  What a weak moment.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #64 - 05/04/17 at 22:14:44
 
I need to know if this is a open baffle club or is it more of a cult type thing.
I'm partial to a cult myself.
Would it be alright if I was a high priest? Maybe in charge of making the Koolaid?
I'm a self starter, with a lot of leadership experience, and would bring cups.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #65 - 05/04/17 at 22:16:01
 
Got this definition off the web:

Cult:
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

I think in this case its an object producing sound, but still qualifies.

Donnie, you are the perfect high priest for this cult.  Poster priest, so to speak.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #66 - 05/04/17 at 22:22:39
 
Donnie gets my vote. Red Solo Cups I hope?!  8-)
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #67 - 05/04/17 at 22:30:19
 
Note to Self:

Never drink Koolaide if Donnie is present.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #68 - 05/04/17 at 22:38:28
 
Drinks are on me boys!

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #69 - 05/04/17 at 22:39:51
 
how about the cute little dixie cups?

2x votes donnie!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #70 - 05/05/17 at 03:49:24
 
As a drinker of the OB Kool-Aid, I want in!  And I will bring the whiskey!

First order of business...  Prosthelytize. Convert the unknowing. Then get them to bring the booze.  Music, tube amps, OB speakers, and alcohol will be the tenets.   Smiley

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #71 - 05/05/17 at 09:17:22
 
Quote:
Randall, you wonderful beast. Not only is my OB beautifully done.....it sounds beautifully sublime.


Good morning Stone,

I'm so happy to hear that you are pleased with the Alpha baffle .....

While I make no claims to be a serious woodworker or cabinet maker, the baffles are not too shabby for a "hillbilly wood butcher" .....
They are reasonably attractive in a rustic Caintuck sort of way .....

However, it's the sound that's important ..... and I think that they do quite well in that department.

As various comments in this thread testify, there is something about open baffle bass that is special. It's natural and complex and presents low frequencies in a very satisfying manner.

A couple of weeks ago, I attended a performance in a very small venue.
It was one of my very favorite three piece groups and I was fortunate enough to get a table right in front of the stage. Since I got there early, it was possible to hear the band warming up before they turned on the sound reinforcement system. One of the performers plays a stand up double bass which he both plucks and bows.
Right after the performance was over, I went home and listened to some of their music on my audio system. The reproduction of that double bass was so similar to what I had just heard "live" that I literally laughed out loud .....

To me .... that was all I needed to know about how good the bass is in my listening room.

I didn't have any Kool-Aid that evening ..... but did enjoy a very tasty Guinness pub draft .....

Happy listening,
Randy
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #72 - 05/05/17 at 14:02:12
 
I woke up this morning and turned my System on .....and it was not a dream.....I'm enjoying OB bass.

Your rustic look to your OB Randy, is quite nice indeed.

What does matter, is the sound....and as you stated:
"As various comments in this thread testify, there is something about open baffle bass that is special. It's natural and complex and presents low frequencies in a very satisfying manner."

I could not agree more Randy (and as your live listening testifies).

......and I will add: The seamless, ease of integration with my DM's + no need to fiddle around with controls. I have it locked in, with this mornings confirmations of listening, at 70 Hz, with my Velodyne 130 watt plate amp, 0 degree phase and at 1/3 volume on plate.

I have zero/no desire to hook up the Monolith's to my DM947's. Furthermore, I do not miss in any way, the transmission line bass of my Adagio's.

OB bass is it and you know it when you hear it.

Randy, thanks for making my music listening enjoyment experience even better!  Have a great weekend.  -S






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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #73 - 05/05/17 at 14:39:03
 

Quote:
I'm a self starter, with a lot of leadership experience, and would bring cups.


I was hoping more along the line of D-cups.  Just sayin.

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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #74 - 05/05/17 at 15:13:09
 
Stone, given your enthusiasm, I dug out some old speaker stands I have and set up my DIY DM945 sans base cabinets.  It had been years since I listened to them this way.

Anyway, integration was a snap with my Augies, which I positioned behind and to the side of the 945s facing the listening position.

It was pretty sweet and I spent several hours listening last night.  

So while I have been on the OB bandwagon (and still like those better for soundstage), it was nice to see I have yet another set of speakers capable of excellent, engaging sound.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #75 - 05/05/17 at 16:24:44
 
Good one LR.  8-)

Pal, yes....good points breaking out you 945's again. Even though I have no desire to put the m-lith's back in right now....of course I have to try it. When you mentioned how they provide more soundstage with the back firing horn...it struck me immediately as true. So, some time next week I will try to integrate those back in and of course I am running just one OB bass right now....not two/stereo bass.

My DM's are not ideally set up either ....the way I have them on the sideway Mliths.....so I know I can only improve it....and they are kicking seamless arse bass with the OB..... . Have a great weekend!

.....PS-I'm going to get those Sweetwater stands DBC has.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #76 - 05/05/17 at 22:08:49
 
Hi Pal… yep once Randy “introduced me” to OB sound.. I got smitten pretty quick.  I hopped on the Hawthorne Trio bandwagon right out of the gate, but scrapped the stock Hawthorne PSI 15” coaxials pretty quick and replaced with an AN full-ranger.  I drive my 4 fifteen inch Augie’s with a Crown XLS-2500 (first version).

It can be difficult to get the “cut from one cloth” sound by driving your OB Augie subs with a Crown.  But this is almost a necessity due to the sensitivity differentials between the Augie’s and your mains.  All the AN full-range drivers I have are significantly more sensitive than the Augie’s.

I have two Velodyne Digital Drive subs… that have speaker level inputs that I used with Martin Logans before my OB enlightenment.  I always “preferred” the perceived “cut from one cloth” sound of the Velodyne’s when driven off my main amps speaker binding posts to the speaker level inputs on the Velodyne’s.

I had a little “issue” with integration of the Augie OB subs driven by the Crown at first, but found two ways to solve the problem.  1) was an Ashly XR-1001 active xover (do not dismiss Ashly because it’s a pro audio company – they have been around a  l..o…n….g  time and make some fine sounding products).  Anyway, this xover allows for more control and I was able to get dialed in to my satisfaction.  2) Ultimately, I found that reversing the phase of the speaker wires to my Augie’s from the Crown, eliminating the Ashly xover and using the xover in the Crown, resulted in nearly perfect integration with my mains (AN’s driven by a Decware Torii).  So I’m not sure if the Torii inverts phase (many tube amps do) or if the Crown does.  But you might try this and see how it sounds – it worked for me.

Additionally…. You can feed the Crown from the speaker output binding posts of your main speakers amp by using another common tool from the Pro Audio world – a device called a “DI Box” to step down the voltage from your main amps speaker outputs, to line level for input to the Crown.  DI boxes are “common” pro audio devices.  The Decware ZBIT balanced to single ended converter box functions kind of like a DI box in a sense.  I’d like to see Steve expand the functionality of this handy little tool to one that works single ended to balanced as well.  And even a version to do speaker level to line level conversion… just so we can “keep it all in the Decware family”.

I noticed the Betsy/OB sub picture that shows the dual OB subs positioned almost perpendicular to the Betsy baffles.  I’ve read a white paper with “science” behind why having a subwoofer positioned perpendicular to the mains speakers/your listening position, should/could/ought to produce the best bass.  I can’t remember where I read it, possibly something from Dr. Hsu (Hsu subwoofers).  I have tried it, and does usually seem to work very well.

I have used only 2 of my 4 Augie's to good effect with my Betsy Baffle's.  I've used one of my Velodyne's with them too.  I concur... OB bass is something special.  It just seems to be more "cohesive" with the rest of the sound or something - it's hard to put into words.  The Velodyne's go back to duty in the HT.....  Augie's for the man cave it is, for the foreseeable future.

Stone... you will be assimilated - resistance is futile.....  
Smiley
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #77 - 05/06/17 at 17:09:45
 
Yes! Assimilation is complete Maddog.

I do not want to leave my Listening Room this morning. My DM947's sans Monoliths with my Caintuck Audio OB Bass ......I'm locked in right now. The foundation the OB lays down for the soundstage is fantastic. I could not do this with my Rel Sub. Returned that to Music Direct late summer 2015.

Today, I'm just cranking....love these DM's.....OB set at 55Hz underpinning beautifully........... .
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #78 - 05/07/17 at 14:34:18
 
this is the final resting place for my augies.

i've tried behind, in corner, firing 45deg and 90deg... this seems to sound best in my room.

running the gallo sa, high level inputs, crossing 80hz, 0 boost, 0 phase.

these integrate better and easier than anything ive tried to date.  almost just smack them down anywhere...
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #79 - 05/07/17 at 15:45:58
 
Yes, almost smack them down anywhere. I could not believe it until having now witnessed it myself glad to own.

Working on getting Mundorfs for the Swan Tweeters in the DM947's. They should respond very well to the change even as high up as they are....
....either MCap Supremes like in my Adagio's or Silver Oils.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #80 - 05/07/17 at 17:16:21
 
Trip,
Looks like some serious toe-in on those Betsy's.  How far in front of you do they cross?  Ive played around with different degrees but I have not got that extreme.  

And man, those Betsy's and Augies are such a good marriage.  They have been filling in nicely while my Omega Super Alnico High Ouputs were being built. Louis just informed me that they will ship Monday  :)  

I expect these Augie's to play nicely with the SAHOs as well.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #81 - 05/07/17 at 17:22:59
 
jeff,

the augies are with the maggies in my 2ch.  adjacent is the ht where the betsys are. when i listen to them i pull them out from the wall and toe them so they cross in front of me a foot or two.
(yeah i can see that pic being confussing... i sit on the couch when listening to those).
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #82 - 05/07/17 at 17:37:51
 
Quote:
jeff,

the augies are with the maggies in my 2ch.  adjacent is the ht where the betsys are. when i listen to them i pull them out from the wall and toe them so they cross in front of me a foot or two.
(yeah i can see that pic being confussing... i sit on the couch when listening to those).


Got it.  All makes sense now.. thanks for clarifying.  Just wanted to sure I was not missing out on something with these Betsy's.  

That's actually a pretty cool idea to get the best of both worlds when one room is all that is available.  Allows for a proper setup of each in the best way possible (not cramming HT and 2Ch together in the same cabinet/rack).  Also makes 2ch room treatment easier it would seem with no flat screen in the center, etc.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #83 - 05/07/17 at 22:23:37
 
I thought that, because you mentioned your HT with the Betsy's.

I put my DM's back on the Monoliths! Soundstage is fully back and the DM's sensitivity has no problem on down through the horn, keeping up with the Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB bass at 97db sensitivity.

Crossed today at 80Hz.

Whaohoooooo!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #84 - 05/07/17 at 23:39:27
 
great!  i really wanted to try those monoliths with my ufo2.... but something has to give (money wise) and i love my betsy's, so i'll make do.

i am glad you are enjoying them stone!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #85 - 05/08/17 at 14:29:58
 
I can relate totally to that Trip. Something has to give money wise. I had to return my Tekton Impact. I would have loved to keep them for rotation. However, I prefer the DM's and also prefer and do not want to sell my modified Acoustic Zen Adagio's.

Furthermore, I'm saving my sheckles for the advent (sometime next year release) of the 6C33C Mono-blocks from Steve in flat plate.

$1800 back to me - less $138 bucks it cost me to ship the pair of Impact back on my FedEx acct. It was worth it....to know about these....but oh, my aching back too.  ;D
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #86 - 05/11/17 at 14:30:16
 
I don't like you guys, for spending my money! Grin

I just received two Augies yesterday! Now I need to find time to build some baffles for them. Put them in my little room and see how they sound. I can't wait.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #87 - 05/11/17 at 15:55:15
 
Cool. I'm running a single Caintuck Audio Alpha 15" OB and loving every minute of it at 62Hz set!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #88 - 05/11/17 at 20:12:03
 
The way this Open Baffle layer's in at 46 to 62Hz with my DM947 Monoliths is something. This Kool-Aid is gooooooooooood!   Cheesy Grin

I have had a few box subs in here. The Velodyne, I extracted the killer plate amp I am using with my OB. HSU and a very good Rel sub with Neutrik connection. None, I repeat none, could do what Randy Caintuck Audio's OB is doing for my Music. ........Brings out the bass line notes within superb tonal balance and increases/improves the soundstage.
.....find the sweet spot volume on your plate amp.....where as, do not cause over excursion on the cone (some people need to be told this).

Raise the price Randy, by $25 to $40 per OB.....would be justified. Thanks again Randy.  -S
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #89 - 05/12/17 at 01:45:13
 
Quote:
Raise the price Randy, by $25 to $40 per OB.....would be justified. Thanks again Randy.  -S


Howdy Stone,

A long time ago I was privileged to be exposed to a bit of wisdom from Steve Deckert that has become the mission statement of Caintuck Audio ..... "Great sound for the sincere but broke music lover" .....

Since retiring from the IT industry and being able to spend my days in any fashion I choose, it has become the best of all worlds to accomplish that mission statement ....

None of the components I use in any of my products are expensive ..... they just happen to punch way above their price points. If I can maintain the tools I use to build things and have some money left over to satisfy my "music addiction", I am a happy camper.

I recently found a supplier for PE foam to replace the Styrofoam channels I use to pack the speakers for shipping. The PE foam is quite a bit more expensive, so I am now adding a small packaging fee to all new orders.
I even feel bad about that .....

Many thanks for the encouraging words,
Randy
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #90 - 05/12/17 at 07:01:46
 
Don't you dare feel bad Randy.  Your packaging as-is, without the fancy foam, is second to none and worthy of a surcharge.  Seriously, I have not experienced such superb packaging with components exponentially more expensive than yours.  

I agree with Stone, your products are worthy of a higher price tag.  It is your decision as to what to charge but the design, craftsmanship, performance or your OB's far exceed their price tags.  If you were to ever price them in accordance with their value (i.e. more expensive), I don't believe any of us who know what you are producing would balk.  Bottom line... don't ever feel guilty about notching up the cost to allow you to further enjoy your passion/retirement  :D

I am loving my dual OB Augie's in Bubinga wood.  Something about this ultra-dense wood is special in combination with your baffle design and these Augies.  The bass is so tight, accurate, and quick.  I have never experienced anything like it with subs I have spent thousands of dollars on - each!

Another glass of Kool-Aid anyone?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #91 - 05/12/17 at 18:45:31
 
Quote:
I agree with Stone, your products are worthy of a higher price tag.  It is your decision as to what to charge but the design, craftsmanship, performance or your OB's far exceed their price tags.


Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the kind words ..... but in my opinion a lot of audio gear is overpriced ..... some of it to a ridiculous degree.
I know that the "serious" manufacturers have a lot of overhead, R & D, dealer network costs, etc. ..... but some of the prices are just over the top.

I also don't delude myself as to the level of my woodworking skills.
Everything I make is certainly functional and I have tried to hit a happy medium between "rustic" and "attractive" ..... but compared to the products made by real craftsmen such as ZYGI, my products are pretty primitive.

There is another component to this that has to be factored in ..... the phone calls and emails I receive from happy Betsy and bass baffle owners means more to me than any dollar amount ever could.
There is no way to put a price on that .....

I have even had several customers send me a gift after living with the Betsy baffles for a few days ..... I have to believe that most of the "big boys" have never enjoyed that experience .....

Best wishes and happy listening,
Randy
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #92 - 05/13/17 at 00:06:21
 
Word.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #93 - 05/15/17 at 13:31:32
 
Word., is right J of A.

Thanks Randy and your packaging is impressive as your product. I was all so pleased when opening my OB.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #94 - 05/21/17 at 20:43:21
 
all i have to say is WOW!!!  augie's need to be in 1.5" baffles.
these are 100% improved (and i thought they where pretty good to start).
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #95 - 05/21/17 at 20:44:25
 
another pic
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #96 - 05/22/17 at 15:02:35
 
Very nice Augie's (I could not do woodwork like that) and I see you have the better Maggie stands. I see one of the UPA-1's too! You can sell those for what you paid for them...... .
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #97 - 05/22/17 at 16:39:22
 
thks stone!

they are 2x 3/4" birch glued together.  i screwed up the first set trying to get fancy with a flush mount... that takes too many router passes and takes away the whole point of the baffle (gets too thin).  

they sound awesome now.  really firms up the lower mids nicely and better integration with the maggies too.

the maggie stands are mye stands.  very nice.

oh and already sold the upa1's when i sold my gallo 3.1's.  the pic is a 5 ch amp.  it's part of my ht deconstruction.  trying the ufo2 in my 2.2 ht now.  boy it sounds pretty damn nice too!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #98 - 05/22/17 at 18:41:41
 
cool and cool Trip! tell us more about your HT 2.2 with ufo2, when you're ready.

Randy!  Hitin' it right now at 55Hz set on my Caintuck OB. Integration with my Adagio's ..........pooooof! blowing my mind.

.........the sensitivity of the driver....the speed! ............the glory of the bass lines!

Damn good with my DM947's too.....I just have my Adagio's in for a week or two run right now!
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #99 - 05/23/17 at 22:09:50
 
Yep, OB Augie's, IME, have been among the easiest subs to integrate with main speakers that I've ever used.  I have used combo's of OB Augie's (1 to 4 of them) with Betsy Baffles, Hawthorne Trio OB's, Decware 945's, Decware HDT's, Omega super 3XRS's, Emotiva AirMotiv 6S', Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's in a BR cabinet, and even a pair of Martin Logan Vista's and probably a couple I'm leaving out that have passed thru the man-cave... the Augie's performed admirably in every configuration.  At this point, couldn't live without them.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #100 - 05/25/17 at 03:35:57
 
my name is trip, and i have an ob problem....

cancel future shipments of Kool Aid please.

note: i am giving away a set of 15" baffles on classifieds if anyone interested.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #101 - 05/29/17 at 14:56:01
 
I just got thinking about everyone's experiences with OB bass drivers and am thinking that everyone has came to the same conclusion that thicker is better.
I'm at 1.5" thickness of MDF myself, plus a thin layer of veneer and a much thicker layer of shellac, lol .
Anyway, are we using the wrong material? Is there something else out there that would work even better? Granite, Corian, cast concrete, aluminum, or perhaps some sort of laminate?
Anyone have any ideas?
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #102 - 05/29/17 at 18:04:37
 
I wouldn't discount density of wood.  Thickness is not wood's only measure for robustness.  The Bubinga wood in my Caintuck Augie baffles is like lead - heavy and dense.  I would surmise similar benefits as 1.5" cuts of less dense material.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #103 - 05/29/17 at 21:49:14
 
I think it is a balance between finding a material with Mass (that will not move independent of the driver cone) yet does not Resonate.

Resonant = to continue to produce a loud, clear, deep sound for a long time.

In the East (China & Japan) bells were made of stone in many cases. In the West bells are typically made of metal. In either case for their resonant properties.

I tired concrete shelves for my audio rack. It was like my gear was on a paint shaker. Concrete and steel (both are very dense) are great conductors of mechanical enery (vibration).

DBC
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
Room #2: Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CS amp, Omega Super 3i Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 12's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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Jeff1
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #104 - 05/30/17 at 01:41:30
 
So here is a thought for the OB design. The baffle from what I have read contributes at least two ways. Thickness/density relating to vibration control. Width/size relating to responsiveness. Yes or maybe no I am not an expert in the design. What if the driver can be mounted or supported independent of the baffle. For example a 1/8" gap between the perimeter of the driver essentially a floating baffle. If the baffle has no other reason than supporting the drive why not eliminate it altogether to avoid the material issue. Or does a free in the air mounted driver loose something?
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Lin
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #105 - 05/30/17 at 03:52:30
 
"What if the driver can be mounted or supported independent of the baffle."

Paging Mr. Content from down under.

Not completely independent; but close.



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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #106 - 05/30/17 at 08:01:49
 
Quote:
I tired concrete shelves for my audio rack. It was like my gear was on a paint shaker. Concrete and steel (both are very dense) are great conductors of mechanical enery (vibration).


I can see where this could be a problem with audio hardware, but who is to say that categorically speaking, the conduction of vibration is a negative attribute to a OB speaker baffle?  No wood is completely immune to vibration.  Vibration will no doubt influence the sound but whether it has a positive or negative influence is to be determined.
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maddog07
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #107 - 05/31/17 at 22:29:24
 
I suppose there's a reason many a speaker cabinet has been made from baltic birch ply over the decades... My Betsy baffles are BB ply.  

I also use a very thick, nearly 3/4", closed cell foam gasket between the driver frame and the baffle.  Just using the "touch" method, the baffles don't vibrate much at all.  But they still do at a couple of frequencies.  I also have a back brace down the back center of the baffle.  I suppose the air born sound waves are still exciting the baffle a bit, even if driver frame motion is not.

I have not tried direct mounting the drivers to the baffles - yet.  Randy has, and I discussed with him - he said he could not detect much audible difference between gasket or no gasket.

It is possible that the baffle could resonate at some sympathetic/desirable frequency and actually contribute to the sound in a pleasing manner.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #108 - 08/16/17 at 17:18:53
 
Now, with 3.5 months on my:

Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" Open Baffle BASS Unit
at 53Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt/ch plate amp and 0 degree phase.....at 1/8th volume on plate
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3

(Open Baffle 15", not in use all the time....approx. 50% of the time.....the best integrated bass)

ONE OF THE BEST VALUE'S IN HIGH-END AUDIO!

.....close 2nd, is my ARC Line Stage LS-2B MkII......I only use about a 3rd of the time.....nice to have.

.....and of course, my ZDSD driven direct to my ZMA.....stomps everything.....IMO.

I use my OB, in a minimalist way.....just enough underpinning foundation when I want!
(For my Room size & Acoustic Treatments=dialed in).

My suggestion, buy one:

http://www.caintuckaudio.com/In_Stock.html
...Scroll to the bottom of the in stock page....I got the barrel shape for my 15", in walnut stain~very sweet.








Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew


Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)


Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter


Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.5 meter


Audio Research Pre w/remote volume & mute LS-2B MkII
NOS Platinum/Mullard 7308/E188CC / Cryogenic

(ARC Pre rotated in and out...approx. in, only 25-30% of the time)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


{ Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8.....in inputs right now~stellar}
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC/6922 for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain ~ w/ZDSD Direct
ZMA adjusted at  80-90% or 100% gain ~ w/ARC Line Stage, running via Remote Volume Control



***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Kimber 8TC new/white & clear jacket/to remind me of how fluid/timbre correct and good the KS6063 are



Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
at 53Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt/ch plate amp and 0 degree phase.....at 1/8th volume on plate
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3

(Open Baffle 15", not in use all the time....approx. 50% of the time.....the best integrated bass)







Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ARC Pre, and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output).

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~All NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC/6922 ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.        
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #109 - 08/17/17 at 15:01:20
 
BTW, I picked up another Crown for my cottage OB rig for an offer of $100.  I was in extremely good shape.  Looked like it had hardly been used.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/263135929405?ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%2...

This will replace a Dayton audio plate amp where I was summing the signal.

Use of this amp requires the construction of a magic cable, which is just an RCA plug a resistor and some wire.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #110 - 08/17/17 at 15:36:17
 
Hi Pal. I did read over this thread again. I should get away from summing with just my one plate amp. The Crowns are tempting. However, for my room size w/treatment.....my/Randy's OB is spot on and I'm happy with it. .....but one OB for each channel and stereo Crown...would be great, I know.

Pal, not to get off topic. But, what are those Russian input tubes you're enjoying and can I get them anymore? I'm Pat, with my System and enjoy rolling input tubes........... .

I have my, (Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's in right now as inputs.....wonderful tubes!
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tungsram-pcc88-7dj8?variant=21828951877
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
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Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Palomino
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #111 - 08/17/17 at 16:18:42
 
Stone, here are two sellers on eBay.  I have purchased from both.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-MatchedPAIR-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-S...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-6N23P-6DJ8-ECC88-PAIR-REFLEKTOR-Single-Wire-1975-Sil...

I do not have as much confidence in the first seller.  Tubes came without a box and the pins were not clean.  These were quite possibly pulls and not NOS.

The second seller's tubes came in box and the pins were clean.  Please note this particular auction is for 1975 tubes - supposedly the best year, but note the seller advertises them as weak.  Thus the low price.

Steve was gracious enough to allow me to test both sets and both tested OK, but the second seller's tubes were definitely stronger.

I would recommend that you follow the second seller or contact them to see if they have NOS 1975s or 1974s.  I am using 1974s right now from the second seller and they are very good.

You could also source them stateside but I don't see them come up very often.  Typically I see them used.  

The key is to get Single wire getter, silver shield, Reflektor from 1974 or 1975.   Also note that there are more pairs available from the '80s but I have read that these are more middle of the road.  Also, they come in a Grey Sheild variety but these are also not as good.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #112 - 08/17/17 at 16:30:24
 
Thanks Palomino. I will follow the 2nd seller jetparts going forward.
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #113 - 08/17/17 at 16:35:59
 
I have purchased (9) '75 Reflektor's (Holy Grail) from the second seller.  NOS tubes, testing strong, generally go for $189 from this seller.  When I purchased my first pair they went for $169.  My last set purchased went for the $189.  I can fully vouch for the second seller.  I had a set that came in with one tube cracked.  I sent an image of the damaged tube and one with similar specs was promptly sent out.  

They do take quite a while to arrive - so if you do order from this seller, the transit time is close to 30 days, like many other overseas sellers.  

I have four '75's in my ZMA, four in my Ultra, and one in my Taboo.  The tubes live up to their reputation.  But, stock being limited, I am eventually going to have to find a replacement. I should be good for at least 2-3 more years based on my listening habits.  

I also have four of its sibling tube, the '74 Reflektor.  I use two in my Ultra and have a spare on hand.  They too are great tubes.  I have rolled them in my Taboo, along with the '75's, and they have a similar sound signature, but would give the edge to the '75.  It just does a little better in bass extension, treble clarity and sound staging.  Can't go wrong with either though.
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Canary Audio Grand Reference Monos//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//Waversa DAC3//ModWright Oppo UDP-205// PS Audio P20//Canary Audio MC-10//Van den Hul Colibri "Stradivarius"//FFYX T1803 TT//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel & tube playback preamp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #114 - 08/17/17 at 16:41:04
 
Here is a very detailed, comprehensive review of these two Reflektor tubes, and many others, by a respected member of Head-Fi.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-730...
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #115 - 08/17/17 at 16:42:10
 
Thanks Jeff. I am certainly going to try and get a pair and see how they fit into the rest of my NOS Platinum pecking order of tubes.
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Decware ZDSD DAC
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XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Augie Style OB Bass
Reply #116 - 08/17/17 at 16:48:21
 
It has been while so I went back in to double check my 75 purchases and I did actually get a pair from the first seller as well.  I can't recall box/no box or the condition of the pins, but I have that pair in use at the moment and they have not failed or caused any audible issues.  Performance wise, they are on par with those purchased fro Jet Parts (2nd seller).
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Canary Audio Grand Reference Monos//ZMA//Zen Ultra//Taboo MKIII//Waversa DAC3//ModWright Oppo UDP-205// PS Audio P20//Canary Audio MC-10//Van den Hul Colibri "Stradivarius"//FFYX T1803 TT//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel & tube playback preamp//Tannoy Westminster Speakers
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