+1 on the good book.  

Will Raven's monster red caps season so he can experience "liquid honesty?"  How will he overcome that treacherous L shaped room?

Will Stone proclaim the mystery amp the best Decware amp yet?  And can the ZMA maintain Zen sound while shattering the 88db speaker efficiency barrier?

And what about Brianne?  Will she continue to warm Raven's amp as the pizza boxes and Chinese food cartons begin to pile up beside his listening chair?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes, great theatre.  On the more serious side those of us still on the list (I'm way at the bottom) will be soaking in with great interest the nature of the changes as they manifest.  Because this is generation I for this amp there is not yet well documented experiences to reference other than Steve's impressions.  

I for one jumped on the ZMA as a power play only, having non-high-efficient speakers.  My MK IV has settled in nicely and I'm hoping the ZMA will not be short on that magic.

For those who will join the party soon, please continue to share what you are hearing as things burn in.  We all want to know what to expect.  I will be very focused on other MK III or MK IV owner's thoughts and comparisons.

Scott

I forgot to mention, I set my speakers to *LARGE* (no crossover) in the Oppo settings, and made sure the sub woofer was off during last nights playtime. This amp clearly has the grunt to get my MG944 popping. The cello in the Musica Nuda albums I started the night off with was startling in how present and dynamic it was. So right now, the weight of the amp is outclassing the smoothness.

Going forward, I think I'll be able to dial the big 2000 watt, 21" subwoofer down to a much lower crossover point and let the MG944 do what they are good at.

I'm going to keep everything setup this way for a while as I'm unsure if the 2 watt Zen has fully broken in my MG944. They probably have more in them that I've not tapped yet that will be revealed with the drive of the bigger amp.

Carried over from the What's Spinning thread  - I didn't want some of this ZMA discussion lost in that more quickly moving thread when it could benefit future users more here.

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Thank you for that! I was starting to get worried that I was hyping up the ZMA too much. As you can tell from my first post about it, right out of the box I wasn't exactly gushing - those "fresh" caps were surely holding it back. But what you're saying makes me feel like instead, I'm on the right track.

But now this really makes me question what I thought was good on the old Zen amp! I really think I may have to plug the old Zen in and give it a listen with new perspective.

Taking a quiet morning as I'm still not 100% recovered from being sick this week. Dogs had me up at 8am after listening till 3am last night...

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Eric, I firmly believe from my own experience that there are a few things the little SET amps do better than any of the others, just as there are things the others do better than they can.

I think there's a "solidity," not sure how else to say it, to the sound with the SETs, an integrated holistic oneness that I think of as being due to the fact that the signal is not split and then amplified. And if you can work within the power limitations you can really get connected deep inside the music, it draws you IN. The larger amps though. . . they can really realistically bring the music TO YOU with scale and rock 'em sock 'em dynamic reality, and with Steve's designs he more and more gets that SET oneness out of the push-pull as well as the scale and drive. (The more I understand about the Mystery Amp the more I see how it is a step even further forward in that regard).

I would advise this: don't put the little guy in yet. Wait a month or so til the Mystery amp is that farther along to blooming. I wonder how much longer those huge caps take to seat and bloom compared to the smaller ones? Your little Zen is so seasoned I would wait until the Mystery is more of all it can be.

Question: is there ANY treble attenuation available at all on the amp? I just can't live without the treble cut circuit any longer. If I were ever to get this amp it would probably only be if there was a treble cut circuit.

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I agree with this, and it's part of why I think I leaned more towards the ZMA than the Torii, not that the Torii is any slouch! I just thought this represented something that was familiar, but with more grunt and texture.

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I will hold off, but I'm already hearing the caps seat well. I knew it was on track when I described the amp like a horse going from a trot to a gallop. I also feel it has a long way to go!

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Steve and I discussed the controls. I think he and I are of the same mind here - the point of the amp, is very K.I.S.S. - I told him I didn't want to futz with settings, I just wanted to connect an amp to a source, and let it do it's job. If it wasn't good straight up, then it probably wasn't the amp I wanted. I like that I can set/check the idle (bias) and just go listen all night. Check it again the next morning and it's still right there, or needs a 5 second tweak. I'm tired of messing/tweaking gear, I want to spend my time listening.

I wouldn't discount or dismiss the ZMA due to not having the treble tweak, if it's not there, it probably simply doesn't need it.

Lon,  In regards to treble...I think I have the same syndrome as you...my ears/hearing seems to be very good and very sensitive to treble that is too Hot, Edgy or Bright...not sure of the right terms to use...thus all the posts about how to warm things up with various things.  The HD 800s are the biggest problem in this regard and although I'm not a DIY guy I think I'll have to do the MOD on them described in the link I provided elsewhere previously.

The Torii MK IV has treble controls but I haven't played with them much.  When I did they didn't seem to make any dramatic change.  I think I read somewhere here that the controls...Treble and Bass...made larger changes  on the MK III than the MK IV Amps.

I'm hoping when the HR-1s arrive all will be well in terms of treble and warmth...at least for non-headphone listening.  Mark.

Hi everyone!

Sorry for being gone so long, but it's been insanely busy around here and highly focused so I've been short on time.

LR - I almost feel bad about what you have experienced with your new amp... indeed, these caps are brutal until fully formed and burned in.  Try this.  Remove the power tubes in the amp AND the OA3's.  This will basically remove all load from the power supply.  Then while you are home, let the amp set ON for 24 hours.  Then turn it off, re-tube it, and turn it back on.  let it warm up slowly for the next few hours and then turn it off for an hour.   Then turn it on and let is slowly warm up for another hour, and I think it will all snap together almost as if it were a magic act.  

Also, you need to hang a heavy comforter on the wall over the screen during serious listening, until such a time that you can install a curtain rod and install heavy movie curtains that can be closed when not watching movies.   It's absolutely essential.  Room acoustics are pressure relative.  The 2 watt amp couldn't develop enough energy to piss off your room.  Now things are different.

I am shipping the ZMA's with rare and expensive selected 6N23P-EV gold grid tubes which are highly resolute, focused and silky smooth.  However during the initial burn in process, it is no doubt that  the standard 6N1P-EV would sound better in it's place.

Keep us posted as things progress, and try to get some rest

Steve

Another trick is to angle the screen so the reflection hits the diffusers on the ceiling.

6N23P-EV are gold grid, yes as are 6N1P-EV.

Glad to hear Eric, the ZMA has some heft and harmonics...and headed in the right direction.  I have a small and treated room. I will add more treatment and turn the room damn near in to a anechoic chamber...if I need to.  

Looks like 10 hours a day/every day......for a month, is going to be needed with my ZMA.    -S

14 weeks ago today....I ordered mine. Oct 7th the day after Decfest. The first one........ .    So, yeah, I hope to get it this week.  -S

Does anyone know the maximum current draw for the ZMA?  I thought I read it somewhere but I can't find it.

LonelyRaven,
   
      Just think you'll probably be wanting to ad some larger woofers into the system to deliver the goods that this amp will have to offer. The larger woofers will add some looseness to your set up maybe 10"s but probably no larger than 12"s. I am really happy for you to have received the first Mystery amp. I know we will be hearing a lot about it from you over the next few months. Good luck in working out all of the details and getting it tuned into your room.

     Enjoy, This doesn't happen often enough in life to find something so special to be excited about!

Lon,
    You messing with Stone!

Oh Ya!

I get your point.



   





 

I was looking at the build sheet to see if my Torii was on it yet (1/07), not yet.

However, I noticed the two "Cryo Treatment" Mystery Amps...pretty cool. ....parts cryo'd or tubes....or both?  Steve send them (parts-tubes) out to do this or done in-house?

Inquiring minds, want to know.  :)    -S

I'd be very surprised if the transformers are cryo'd.

I'll ask Steve when I talk to him next, what exactly gets Cryo'd


So, another minor update - well, not really, just something that made me smile.

So I come home, and Brianne has the amp powered up for a couple hours already; yeah, still a keeper.

I put on Patricia Barber - Blue Cafe (no subwoofer, just enjoying the grunt of the ZMA) and I check mail and packages and I'm pleasantly surprised to see my Pangea AC 9 SE that was recommended previously.



Nice, fat, garden hose of a cable...kinda intimidating honestly, especially since I thought the 10AWG cable I made was already overkill - but I get the new cable unboxed and ready to install, I go behind the amp and unplug my power cable while the amp is still playing, casually plug in the 1.5M Pangia garden snake into my Isolation transformer, then into the ZMA.

The music never stopped! The caps hold so much power that the music kept going for the 3-4 seconds it took me to seat the new cable! It maybe dimmed a little, but just kept going! Amazing.

So, part two - I'm a real skeptic of power cords. Sure I can typically hear the difference between shielded and unshielded cable, but I've always felt that as long as a power cable does no damage, they will all sound the same. Patricia Barber is still playing while I eat and check up on E-mail and such...and...I'll...be...damned. All the drums sound sharper - from Bass all the way up to Cymbals. The music kept distracting me from what I was doing (usually a really good sign).

It could just be "a good night" for the amp or for my hearing or mood or whatever. So I'll give it a proper A/B test with a friend who's ears I trust, but my initial impression with the Pangea is this has changed for the better! I'm almost a believer!

P.S. Bri said now that I've drank the Kool-Aid, I need to start buying little magic sound bowls and hang crystals in the room to make things sound better. LOL

I'm very glad you went for the cord Eric and so glad that results have been favorable. It will get better, too. I'm confident you'll be converted.

Thanks Guys!

I'm really glad to have found my way back here after a 12 year hiatus. Things turned out very well; but then, that's how it seems to work in the world of Zen, doesn't it?

Iso-Balls and Tube Dampers due in later this week. Lets see if they bump it up a notch as well.

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That kinda boggles me - I mean, the science makes sense. The iso-cups are acting like a vibration sink/damper, so if you can get the devices in a location of most resonance, you'd get the most improvement. Got that part. But the fact that our gear is this sensitive and that these problems have been plaguing us since...well, since the gear was first invented, and we're only now really addressing this correctly? That's part of what makes me want to cry SNAKE OIL! But the tube dampers on the little Zen amp had such a surprising *sharpening* of the music; I have to at least try to go all out on the ZMA and see what happens.

And I kinda did go all out: Besides the current gen of Iso-Cup/Ball, I also got Tenderfeet for the Oppo player, and a full set of Tube Dampers for the ZMA, even including the Regulator Tubes (which, IMHO I really don't see how this will improve anything, but I'm fine with being wrong), plus I got two Super Sonic Stabilizers that I'm going to try on both the Oppo, and testing on the Transformers or Caps of the ZMA. Again, another device I'm skeptical of, but that's why Steve H has such a great return policy.

In my mind, even if this stuff gives me a 2% improvement, it was worth the cost, and can be transferred to other devices down the line. I still believe that digital audio will explode in the next year or two, so I don't see me sticking with the Oppo forever, but the ZMA is here for the long stretch...or until Steve D comes up with an OTL Amp for me!  

The way I look at is that the transparency and accuracy of the Decware amps and preamps and sources allow one to hear these types of improvements with more clarity and certainty. I was the biggest skeptic several decades ago but really have found some fascinating results with stands and footers etc.

I think you'll be really impressed with the changes that these Herbie's products will bring.

I got my Herbie's shipment last night (along with stuff from my other hobbies that I need to work on as well).

I didn't get any real listening time in last night, just more background listening. I threw all the Herbie's stuff on the ZMA at once, I figured I'd use it all for a few days, then remove it - as that usually gives me a better picture of what it was actually doing - *then* I'll add items one at a time and see what does what.

How did you choose which dampers you wanted on each tube type?

cheers,

Very nice LR, I will revisit this when I'm ready for some Herbie's. Thanks for posting this... .

Good news, I spoke with Sarah about some business and she checked on my ZMA....and Josh should be able to get it out today or tomorrow!
I like her!

My Torii IV has also made the build sheet...with my ZMA in Shipping.
What's not to like?!  Good people and good service.

-S

In case anyone else is wondering, Steve told me that the ZMA draws about 150 watts max.