I’m estimating 50-75 hrs on the RCA to be on the conservative side—probably more.  While I’m keeping a closer track on the number of hours for power tubes, Driver tubes, and the rectifier, I haven’t been as closely monitoring the VR and input tubes. I roll the inout tube the most, so that makes it harder to keep on top.  That said, if I usually don’t like a tube during the first 50 hrs, chances are that it will probably be not to my liking as it further breaks in.  I will revisit the RCA in the future.

The WE tubes have a 500 hr break in so I figured I’d wait until they are more settled in—maybe around the 250 hr mark (currently at 136 hrs).  I found that the DeOxit really helps with the VR tubes.  Those are a huge pain to insert in the sockets and using DeOxit was a game changer.

Thanks, Kamran.

Happy Ramadan sir!

Find that tripod Kamran~ two second timer w settings ready to go and you're in business! Zero camera shake. -As long as you (like us) don't have wood floors We just keep still till shot. That didn't sound right somehow... till shutter is released. Absolutely gorgeous amp!

I LOVE reading this thread. Great stuff!

So recall the Cryotone 12AU7-WCL, which I thought was shot after a loud pop on the right channel followed by no sound on that channel?

Swapped the power and driver tubes but I couldn’t get any sound on the right channel until AFTER I replaced the input tube.  So I sent it back to Don for evaluation and it passed all his tests with flying colors including serenading him on his Sarah (and completely puzzling the bajeesuz out of me).  So I asked him to overnight it and I got it back today and it is working just fine.  I can’t even….shows how much I know about audio.

I’m glad I got my tube back and my advice to other owners is to perhaps not jump to conclusions if the same thing happens to them.

I’m now running all Cryotone fare except the power tubes.

Thx Mike—-that mean’s a lot coming from you and your amazing picture taking skills!

Decfest East Coast 2024 Edition

So I’m kicking myself for not taking any pictures but I had the unique pleasure of hosting three audiophiles including Dom, GroovySauce (and his brother) today.  They spent a couple of hours in the rig and time just flew by! I would like to thank all of them for taking the time out of their busy schedules to checkout my rookie rig.  

We also played with GroovySauce’s Schumann Wave Resonator by Mr. Nixie and I really dug it when it was in the system.  It’s hard to describe the effect, other than say the music sounded more natural and more clear with it on. It’s on my shortlist of things to get…

Hopefully, this is just the start of many future jam sessions.

Thx for the kind words Dom! Loved having you guys over.  You missed the Pizza afterwards!

So interesting discovery—I am super tired and lazy today so havn’t set my listening chair, opting to sit behind on the couch and listening to Sarah approx. 10 db lower and it sounds so satisfying.  I can’t figure out why I’m not itching to crank up the volume to my desired 75-85 range.  Either Sarah is matching my low energy, or both the Cryotone input/rectifier and the WE are breaking in and becoming even quieter.

Thx Dom—that’s definitely a factor to consider.  It’s either that or GroovySauce imparted his lower volume preference on to me after our session, lol!

Speaking of GroovySauce, I am re-listening to his ‘Exploring Bass’ playlist after a long time and just stunned with the low end response I’m experiencing.  I just don’t get the rep of 300B tubes being a one trick (midrange) pony?

This amp doesn’t cease to amaze.  I am just over 1400 hrs and about 250 hrs on the replacement WEs.

Also of note, this is probably the longest hiatus the Sophia Aqua 274B has had in the rig.  Not necessarily saying that the Cryotone 5U4 is better, but I remain more than satisfied at the moment and will probably let the WE’s burn in fully, before I go back to it to compare.

Thx for the feedback GS! It was so much fun and afterwards I realized that we didn’t listen to enough music, lol! Already looking forward to your next trip!

The Revelation

We are just over 1500 hrs on Sarah and 340 hrs on the new pair of WE tubes.

This past week has been a revelation of how next level the WE 300B actually is.  They just opened up significantly (and I mean significantly) at 250-300 hrs. My original pair never sounded this good at 450-500 hrs, which is also when the noise started. Fingers crossed, this new pair doesn’t suffer from the same fate.

Night after night this past week, I’ve had many holy shit! moments.  I found myself loving everything I heard, without feeling unsatisfied and skipping tracks.  I should have taken a lot more screenshots, but the following tracks are the only ones where I had enough wherewithal to actually take one.







While everything is sounding much better, if I had to focus on one aspect that has had the most profound change, that would be the lower octaves—much fuller and delightfully denser.

And while Bass was cheering from the window for the first 250 hrs.

Now it has come out to play (no pun intended).

And holy shit—it has such palpability, slam, gravitas, control and texture, that I’ve been just left dumbfounded.  More on that at the end but let me also give some credit to other aspects that have also flourished in the meantime.

The midrange is increasingly more magical with soul penetrating vocals and the soundstage is so expansive and holographic that I’m left wondering if there are any friggin walls in the room. While notes always carried a few feet behind the sweet spot—they are now accomplishing the same feat with such clarity and precision that I’ve been staring at my atmos speakers in the ceiling with growing suspicion.

I had my son come down tonight and played a few tracks without going in to any details and then I asked what he thought and he immediately pointed out that the bass was much much better.  That evoked two immediate emotions/thoughts:

A) Proud of my Audiophile in the making for picking out the same thing I noticed
B) Glad that I was not being biased about my own rig

Then I played a few tracks from Dominique Fils-Aimé.  He had already heard ‘Birds’, so I picked that one last and opted for another favorite of mine ‘Where there is smoke’.  I accidentally hit another playlist before the track ended and he was a bit disappointed—he was so in to it! Then we played ‘Home’ and ended with ‘Birds’—-the last one hitting me more profoundly than ever before.  The bass, the vocals, the holographic flapping of the wings…Damn.

Then I shut the system down and showed him the HPC Sluggo I got from Mark for the streamer that I intend to introduce in the rig next week.  He was shocked to see how tiny it was—lol.  After we went upstairs, he was humming ‘Where there is smoke’ and I was like, ‘Are you a Dominique fan now?” And he was like: ‘Yeah that was low-key cool.’

Mental Note: Find out how and when to use the slang ‘low-key’ so I can sound cool to my teenagers.

Torii MK V on the bench at HQ and I still want to add a Sarah to the cart every time I read these reviews. Could be a 60th Birthday present to myself I guess based on the current build time.

Kam, DFA is just incredible. I have all of her vinyl and also have Nameless on CD. Unfortunately both media have something going on for the first minute or two of Strange Fruit (one of my favorites) and it is unpleasant. Nameless is my other favorite. She can just sing.

The lower bass you are describing is what I had this week when I switched out the Super Sluggo's for the HPC.

Thx Lon—I should have included that part of it is the amp seasoning as well.  It surpassed all of my expectations on Day 1 and it just keeps getting better!  I’ve heard great things about the Loki Max—although looking at your path, I was curious about the PS Audio phono.  I’d have pegged you to be a ZP3 fan!  I have heard great things about the GrooveTracer mods and was curious whether the higher Rega models negate the need for the sub-platter mods or is there still a market no matter how high you go.

The Other Lon: It’s funny you asked. I’ve been ignoring my vinyl setup for some time now and was thinking of getting back in to it and DFH’s ‘Nameless’ was one of the top records on my list.  She does have an incredible voice.

LiquidBlue: Thx! I really cherish the moments sharing the rig with my son.  His tastes are obviously so different from mine, but I’ve noticed that he pays attention and digs at least some of the esoteric music I throw at him.  And speaking of Tool, while I am still early in my discovery stage, I had previously earmarked ‘Chocolate Chip Trip’ for us to listen to and had completely forgotten about until you brought it up.  So thx for the reminder!

And to both of you: I think it’s a great idea to put your name in the queue for a milestone birthday—go for it!

Regarding the sub-platter mod: I think the current P8 and above have an OE much better sub-platter, and the Groovetracer mod is likely a lateral move rather than the truly forward improvement it is in the lower models. The Delrin platter is almost equally as wonderful an improvment.

And the Loki Max has proven to be very flexible and useful. I can get the sound I crave via the ZROCK2 without the increase in GAIN that the ZROCK2 gives, which in the case of my phono playback (which is inherently more dense than digital playback in my system) is a cool thing. And I think it foreshadows the sort of sound that the ZROCK3 will bring, in both its transparency and its ability to EQ without gain (and with gain adjustably in the case of the ZROCK3 which I think will be a great component).

I’m not sure either.  On the Had amp, I gave up tracking my usage after 500 or so hours, but still at it with Sarah.  And also using it as my true north with respect to tracking the break-in of the WE.  In other words, I know which hour of break-in I inserted the new pair of WE and using that as a reference point to track 500 hrs.  Not tracking any other tube at this point.

Nice pic as usual Kamran,

In the spirit of Eid, thanks for sharing this with those of us who may be a little less fortunate! (meant with respect and a little humor)

I have the UFO25 but I still can't stop wondering what the Sarah would sound like in my system.
Totally happy with the UFO25 though.

You have a great supporting cast in your components and room.
I imagine it must be incredible to spend hours getting lost in there.

Anyway, thanks for your impressions and overall contributions to the forum.

So, in a dissapointing turn of events, one of the replacement set of WE tubes has developed noise, which even after 300 hrs of burn-in (post issue), refuses to go away.

To say that I’m disappointed with WE’s quality control is an understatement.  So much for its legendary status.  Next week, I plan to send it back for evaluation.  I think I’m done with WE.  Once I resolve the issue, I plan to sell my pair.  I’ve ordered Cryotone 300Bs that should arrive by end of May.

The noise didn’t stop there.  One of my ECC88-WC’s was also exhibiting noise and that has been already shipped to Don for further evaluation.

Am I devastated? No. Disappointed? Yes.

Thank God for the stock tubes that came with Sarah. It allowed me to evaluate the source of the noise and allowed me to get back on track both for power tubes and driver tubes.

With the PNet fully stabilized and the Graphene Sluggo burned in, it’s just unreal how low the noise-floor is and how crazy details are emerging that I didn’t hear before.

Last night, I listened to Sarah Bareillis’ ‘Brave Enough: Live at the Variety Playhouse’ album for the umpteenth time and it sounded so different (in a good way).  Was picking up way more subtle crowd interaction and her vocals—-omg—talk about intimate.

Well out of the blue I lost another Aqua II in the SEWE300B. Sophia Electric tells me that I am the only one who has reported losing an Aqua II in this amp, let alone twice. I've come to the conclusion it is too risky to run this (beloved) rectifier in this amp.

(This mishap also showed that the Swiss Digital Fuse Boxes work just as they should protecting the amp--they shut down and then restarted just as outlined in the manual).

I went through a handful of rectifiers that have safely worked in the amp and an old RCA 5U4G nearly got me where I wanted but ultimately got closest with the original Aqua (which I have not had a problem with in the amp since the very first turn on of the amp arced one reallly quickly and shortly) and a pair of Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z that I got from Will this week. This combo sounds pretty darned good. I'll probably put the Cryoton 300B-WC back in shortly and see how that combo sounds.

I miss the Aqua II! I'll still buy another so that I can have one each in the CSP3 and the Zen Amp Clone in my audio/visual system. It's a fantastic rectifier to build a tube complement that suits my rooms and tastes with.

The puzzling thing Dominick is that the rectifier seems to work well in others' SEWE300B amps. Not sure why it doesn't in mine.

The original Aqua 274B seems to have been and to be problem free in the amp, so I guess I'll just use that for a while. (It's a very good tube--the II just seems to have an even lower noise quotient and that yields a slightly fuller sound; the new 300B tube are giving me a slightly fuller sound than the Cryotone at this point so that helps make up for it.) I'm thinking of investigating other (probably Chinese) premium 274Bs in time. . . will do some research and see if I can find useful reviews.

Yes, I don't know why the II doesn't like my SEWE300B.

Everything can be different from one system to another. Hope your input tube comes back with no noise. Those are nice tubes. . . though a bit too "much" (forceful sounding) in my main system.

I think you'll really like the 300B-WC. I did experience some hum from it and the Sophia Electric 300Bs, the latter the most, the amp was at its very newest then as well. But it was not hum that intruded into the music at all.

Right now I'm enjoying the difference that the Black Treasures 300B-Z are bringing--I've needed the bit more of a bass boost that it and the Super Duper Sluggo are bringing me.

Yea, Sarah hasn’t missed a beat for a single day over the last six months.  It’s combination of relentless burning in of tubes, cables, sluggos, while being tied down during house renovations.  

Good times—-Though I don’t anticipate keeping up with this pace for the second half of this year.

Thx bhenriks— happy to assist! I look forward to your impressions as well.

Quote:


FWIW, based on comments by several online friends (who own more 300B tubes than I own socks), you may be the target demographic for the Elrog 300B. They seem to be the choice for maximum transparency, dynamics and frequency extension without the "too beautiful" WE sound. Not cheap, they are likely a lifetime investment. So if you ever feel like you haven't spent enough money on tubes that might be something to think about.

James—I recently inquired about the Elrogs compatibility with Sarah considering it has different specs from a typical 300B and here is what Steve had to say:

With the higher than 700 ohm plate resistance the sound is going to change as is the power, so having voiced the amp for WE300B I can only say it won't be that.  Expect less power, less gain, and let me know if you like it.

I think my curiosity was put to bed after reading that….

Yes Lon, to my ears and in my rig, I’m really digging the Cryotone 300B and have no desire to experiment further for the time being.

I am eagerly awaiting the two new ECC88-WCG drivers by next week so I can run a full compliment of Cryotone tubes.

Good News and Bad News

The Good: Finally received my replacement set of Cryotone ECC-88 WC tubes last Thursday—-finally completing my goal of a full Cryotone set.

AND?

Well, I was dancing in my rig the first night —- if that gives you a clue.

It’s as if Sarah asked me ‘What took you so long’? The rig is sounding incredible.  I’m not interested in rolling for the time being..

The Bad: The recent heat wave is really limiting my audio time.  My HVAC doesn’t extend to the basement and it’s getting really hot and stuffy, especially when you have 9 hot tubes in the mix.  Therefore, I’m typically waiting until night time to turn Sarah on and only have it running for 3-5 hrs.