When Dominick replied:

By comparison between the Chinese fuse you sent me, and the SDFB….well there IS NO COMPARISON

I thought that statement describes my experience as well with my 84UFO25.  I replaced its fuse with an SR Purple fuse a few months ago and heard a subtle improvement in SQ.  The improvement in SQ with the SDFB is way more than just subtle.

After the holidays, I hope to explore this change further.  

Which also reminds me, Happy Holidays, everyone!

Thanks for weighing in. "Bright" I do hear and feel detrimentally when others don't, and references to "airy" and "detailed" etc. most often translate into a brighter playback than I prefer. I'm quite sensitive to treble energy and my ZROCK2s (I have three, one in each system) are dialed way up in EQ A. Many things i try that others find compellingly improvements I find. . . bringing brightness. I have loads of dynamics currently and actually dial some down with tuning, and sound stage is something my setup is challenged with and I can choose soundstage or frequency balance (less bright!) and I do choose the latter, I can't really have the best of both. I've done a lot to reduce the background noise in my system and the system has a very black background even with the SEWE300B in thanks to the regenerator and other items such as excellent cabling and Shunyata Defenders, etc.

As for some folk preferring a brighter presentation. . .this is a reality I have learned over the two and a half plus decades of being a Decware person.

So I'm very hesitant. I don't need headroom in my system. Mark has made me a very generous offer of a trial when I am ready to do so and I'll probably just buy one when I can in a few months and give it a shot. But to be honest. . .your posting makes me think I will indeed find brightness as a result. In time, we'll see.

Just a very short note to the group here

Firstly - safe and happy holiday to all.

Secondly - I want to mention that we had a couple of ooopses in our packing etc.

Thanks to those that treated us with kindness and respect. We overnighted every instance of a failed shipment. Music today and tomorrow for all...

I've enjoyed the phone conversations with each of you - I've spoke to several forum denisons and I can without question say how incredible those chats were - and the level of civility and interest really made me happy.

I need to thank Steve for allowing me here.

So -  best to all

Lynn and Mark

PS - Impactful "Density" (read more information than ever before)... does not necessarily mean "bright" - I like the use of "WEIGHT" instead. Kinda of a Jon Iverson (Electro Research) thing. The EK-1 Phono System was possibly thought of as "bright" by some - by me (as it's young dude VP of Sales) Jon taught me the use of Weight - Long time ago - but I remember it well. Just don't ask me what I ate for breakfast - no idea

Appreciate all the feedback and perspectives. I'm ordering one now!

I was one of the overnight recipients. Thank you Mark.
Very short initial impression;
The SDFB gives a clearer presentation of what I already have with a fuller, think more information, from top to bottom presentation which so far is actually less bright. I can listen at lower volumes now without the desire to turn it up for it to fill in the meat of the music, I love that!
I am terribly sensitive like Lon is so I am very pleased with the first two hours and I am very much looking forward to some more listening time.

Lon’s setup fosters brightness. No room treatment and speakers with crossovers separating drivers.

Kamran’s setup absorbs brightness with room treatment and single drivers.

SonicSeeker’s comments are spot on on what fuse replacement with a sluggo does to a system.

A #4 solid copper wire cut to 20mm will serve as a sluggo and provide insight on what the SDFB will do to a system. Home Depot.

Two negatives of the design in the SDFB(a good product) that haunts me is the ability to remove it while the sluggo remains in place. And, the need to send it back to change values of protection.

I think by just showing up here on this forum we are all sensitive to over brightness.

My thoughts.

John

I'm really struggling with the term bright the last few days.

What is bright?

I used to think it was excess or over exaggerated treble. The last month or so I'm starting to think it's a form of distortion in the higher frequencies that some are more sensitive than others. Similar to absolute phase some are more sensitive to it that others.

I'm going to disagree about the treated room. It won't fix a brightness issue. A untreated room can exacerbate brightness.  

I've found the Lii 15 drivers presence peak can easily push the system into sounding bright.

I don't see crossed over speakers as being inherently bright. My Amphion Argon 7ls speakers—even running a class D amp—never sounded bright to me. They also had some of the best high end I've heard on a speaker.

The SDFB lowers distortion. Higher frequencies have less distortion so a "veil" has been lifted. This means it's more clear and "easier on the ears"

I think we all have a reaction to "bright" or "dull" that may be personal.

I look for a "natural" sound and I think the biggest barrier to that in my system is possibly EMI/RFI. The more I combat THAT the clearer treble becomes, the more edge disappears, the more I relax into sound. (I'm probably lucky that I now live in the least "noisey" neighborhood of my lifetime out here by the woods). I use recordings and actual discs analog or digital that I have listened to for decades and recordings I made of bands I was a member of as references.

You may be right GS that it is a treble distortion. EMI/RFI may be triggering it in my system.

The perception of audio is so personal. For example I bought a preamp from John that I know he struggled to let go off because it had been maximized including cryo treatment and it is a fantastic preamp. . . but my other almost identical non-cryo'd preamp with the only real difference being Jupiter instead of Miflex caps. . . I thought sounded much more natural and fitted my system better. I sold John's preamp last week.

There's not a one size fits all solution to many audio problems. The SDFB may well be very close to one. I may find out later this coming year. But my audio journey was actually improved this last year in large part due to the SEWE300B--that amp and my speakers are better matched, and the SET 300B sound has taken the system to a zone I want to inhabit for a long time.

It's an amazing travel experience to get to this point, and I want to relax and enjoy the sonic view for a spell!

bright·ness
/ˈbrītnəs/
noun
1.
the quality or state of giving out or reflecting light.

Changed the word light in the above definition to sound from my point of view.

John

From my experience an untreated room will foster brightness. Errors in timing and phasing will also do the same.
I never heard crossed over speakers that did not over brighten sound in some way or another. IMO the sound is polluted with additional components that Decware strives to eliminate.

8 . . . I may find out one day!

Right now I have four paired outlets on the back of my P15 that only have one component connected, and I have a Defender in the other outlet of each. Best placement of them so far.

I guess describing brightness is difficult because a lot of things can cause the effect of feeling too bright. Seems most of our aversions are based in a sharp/hard quality to tipped up, or tipped up feeling mid-to-high frequency areas of the spectrum, and usually some combination of those areas.

It seems to me about anything can contribute, like those mentioned... distortions, timing issues (phase), spectral imbalances in gear, or from room reflections and modes.... But even with a decent spectral balance, without distracting peaks and nulls, a balance that is light from the lower mids down tends to lean and bright. Alternately "dull," with all else good, can just be weighing toward too much bass in the balance.

But to me, more important, with all good spectrally, these conditions and more can contribute to signal concentration where potential complexity is smeared together, concentrated, sounding hard... I'm thinking how too-strong macro dynamics can amplify hard note intensity. If that same information is allowed to be more naturally clarified with parts, wires, and design, etc, concentrated detail can expand into complex harmonic information, taking the edge off. And if it balances, it can manifest as a more complete representation of the instruments, one that is smooth from greater resolution, but also clearer, bringing out nuances.... like nuanced touches of hair and rosin on strings, spit on reeds, wood vibrating, finger hits on strings, air, textures, decays...    

The signal more complex from clarifying space differentiation between fine detail, better resolution and more correct timing done well, can transform information that was hard, into more limitless, natural and relaxed music.

But if timing and clarification of resolution/removal of smearing are not across the spectrum, it does not feel right. If each area of the frequency range does not have relatively correct timing and resolution, the whole sound does not  feel integrated and complete. To me this is at least as big a deal as spectral balance.... timing imbalances contributing to spectral imbalances if timing is not balanced bottom to top...another culprit for not being able to feel/hear the subtle stuff that can really make the music feel natural and realer.

To this end, like most of us, but some more than others, I am always very carefully tuning for more complete power. Power from the house, and in power supplies for the gear. Everything counts... all the receptacles, how we approach power with parts we use to create, protect and filter it, every cable and all the cable ends, IEC connectors... how well connections fit and how smooth the metal is to allow better conduction in a good fit.... and for those of us using, or looking at the SDFB, before the SDFB, our long explorations with fuses.

Lon bringing up the Shunyata Defender is a good pointer to me. I have used one since they first came out... not a breathtaking change, but it was good enough to keep even back then when my system was less resolving. And especially in concert with other quality filters that act similarly, they can really help clean the whole sound by removing subtle sounding distortions that are irritating more from feel than recognized sound a lot of times, at least until we fix them. To me, sonically, the Shunyata allowed more very fine senses of space and detail, and I think it did it by reducing distortions/smearing... not from taking away signal information, but from resolving it better... making the detail better, more complex. By solving distortions, even ones we may not be able to measure as heard, we can still perceive it apparently in good system/rooms, and resolving detail more fully and reducing smearing are two sides of the same coin. While carefully keeping/making all else good, this to me is the best read I have found toward relaxing hardness and brightness into music.

I guess I stopped being able to blame "detail" for brightness a long time ago. My SE 34 Decware amp and MG944s helped a lot, allowing me to hear so much more, but importantly, also allowing my Tranquility DAC front end to better show its potential. In that DAC development, lots and lots of attention and experiments were about allowing fuller and more complete harmonic complexity as a means to resolve "digital" toward a high quality analog sound. With carefully selected cables, and computer and software feeding it (all carefully selected and tuned with blind testing), as my  system and room became more able show it, that DAC was revelatory to me.  It opened a whole world, leading to exploring refinements system and room-wide ever since...

Alternately, systems and rooms, so complex, if anything concentrates the signal/detail, it will mess it All up, caps, wires, connectors, resistors, tubes.....power, components, speakers….room….and vibration! But if those all work together, the glory of smooth and natural complexity can be found, and this has been the ultimate read for me. With all else pretty right, "more space between the particles of sound" creates the sense of more particles of sound making the music, equating to more natural and complete complexity. And it makes some sense.... if we truncate the most fragile aspects of the signal and sound, what else goes with it. Just like real music in a really revealing room... there is way more complexity than linear thought and words can pinpoint or describe easily.

With this “new tool” for discerning ways to improve the musical experience, I learned more and more to dislike attempts at solving "brightness" with roll-off, and too obvious attempts to mask higher frequencies with "warmth," which to me often sounds veiled and dark. And the more I went the other way... carefully increasing fine resolution to open the signal, the signal less concentrated, increased functional detail can awaken and relax the sound, resolving hardness without sacrifice... while also resolving "warming" qualities!

I love what I think of as real warmth, where the finest detail in harmonic information and high extension are not overwhelmed... instead couched in a little darker/sweeter tone. I guess the sweetening aspect is the combination of slight darkening with great timing and complexity.... without masking detail complexity. It is the "affect" of warmth I can't stand... always taking the life out of the music for me.

No doubt there is more to it, but I never cease to be amazed at how more resolution and space, with musicality, can just keep getting better and better and better... And more an more, what I hear as musicality in parts or tubes or cables or components......always seems to be associated with less restricted resolution in space, making spectral, detail, and timing balances more complete, "enhancing" a naturally musical and friendly experience.

Based on all sonic reports, the SDFB makes sense toward this end. Guessing the "sluggos" must be from pretty nice materials and method, so not only supporting a bigger/freer transfer of energy, but a cleaner, more resolved transfer of energy. And taking out bottle necks and distortions caused by from fuse use, seems the SDFB can allow more complete everything, including better timing and more complexity. For me, also important, it sounds like it can do this without contributing much to a spectral shifts toward dark/thick like oversized cables can....

So my thanks to you early adopters for all your impressions and ideas … I ordered a few with some copper and gold dipped sluggos to play with, and hope to get to try them later in the week! Excited.

Quote:


Great post Will, as always. In this regard and at risk of a slight tangent to the discussion on the SDFB (since the Venom Defender was mentioned), I thought I’d share  a conversation I had with Richard at Shunyata this past week.

We were discussing placement of the Defender, since I’m using a Shunyata Venom PS8 power distribution strip. He advised that if there is space it is best to use the Defender in the power strip instead of the shared wall outlet. He recommended to continue connecting the amp directly to the wall socket along with the PS8 and then placing the preamp closest to the power cable inlet in the distribution strip, followed by the analog components. He recommended placing the Defender along with the noisier digital components (streamer/DAC)in the same duplex, with the Defender between the DAC and the analog components. He recommended this as the best way to organize the components to maximize the filtering of the Defender. He also mentioned the use of multiple Defenders if space allows, but that there was also a point of diminishing returns, I believe which was 4 Defenders in the system, based on memory.

Theoretically this all made sense, though our conversation and my rearranging things came just before receiving the SDFB, so I didn’t have much time for critical listening, to really speak to the effects. I believe Marks Puron may be a similar device, but am not sure how they may compare.

Yes, thanks LiquidBlue. I used to move around my Defender now and then, but for a long time I found I liked it best in the beginning of my tuned up Brickwall, where I put all the front end stuff, and the Brickwall plugged into one side of the main audio receptacle. Then I had amp and pre in "the front" of the PSAudio P5, and a furutech plug filter between amp and pre, and noisier things like the TV and DAC I use for video, as far away from the amp and pre as I could. The P5 took the other side of the Audio receptacle. Once woken up with better receptacles, IEC inlet, fuse, and a cable made just for it, I liked the P5 a lot because I could adjust the phase adjustment to balance spaciousness and density, and for stable voltage for my amps, where one volt changes the sound enough to matter to me. I preferred it between 115 and 117 volts when my house power was 120-123... Higher voltage I could probably handle if stable but moving around, tuning was a moving target. And comparatively, higher voltage makes everything too strong, dark, and thick for me.

Right now, the P5 is not working, and the main fuse is fine. Once I have the nerve to move it (heavy!) and see if I can find what is wrong inside, I will reevaluate the plugin filter placement. But now it sounds pretty great with a nice Chinese made balanced isolation transformer first, then an opened up Uber, tuned with more and better caps across the receptacle's AC. In one isolated receptacle of the Uber is the Furutech filter and the Brickwall, and in the Brickwall, primary audio stuff (analog and my main DD converter and DAC). The Defender is still at the beginning of the Brickwall. In the next Uber receptacle is the sub, and the other stuff on a strip that is plugged into the last Uber receptacle...

I found that at this point, using the other main audio receptacle for the Mac Mini sounds really good.

I too am interested in Mark's Puron plugs, once things settle down here and stabilize some... We touched on it when we talked, but I did not dig, more wanting to talk about the fusebox and him busy with orders. It did sound like he was familiar with lots of these type units and represents the Puron... but as Lon pointed to... just have to try them in our setups to see which is better, or for me, if they compliment one another. What a trip it all is!

Here is Snubway

After

My apologies for now knowing how to really post these properly here

Sorry

Thanks so very much Kamran

Very much appreciated

Yours

Mark

Last week, I posted my initial impression of using the SDFB instead of my SR Purple fuse in my UFO25 and said that the improvement was not subtle.   After a few days, I put the SR fuse back into the amp to compare. After several hours of listening, I thought perhaps my initial report of the SDFB had been too glowing as the amp's SQ with the restored SR Purple Fuse also sounded great. I could NOT discern a decrement in SQ objectively and found that puzzling. I decided to leave the fuse in the UFO25 for a couple of days and then switched back to the SDFB for further review.

Last night, I made that switch back to the SDFB, and I could hear the improvement in SQ immediately. It was less dramatic than my first impression earlier in the week, but it was there. Earlier today, I read The Other Lon's SDFB post and thought his words described my experience. When I restored the SDFB, I listened to the system for over three hours, and during that time, I felt more engaged and present with the music than I was without the SDFB. How to quantify that escapes me, but it is when you listen for a long time, and you smile more often in response to what you hear.

Although the SQ with the SR Purple fuse was excellent, there was less of a thrill. Unless I get motivated to experiment again later, the SDFB stays put.

In recent years I have suspected that the tiny wire in a fuse could be a limiting factor in the overall sound of a stereo system. I’ve been buying and listening to the Synergetic Research fuses and have been impressed by the improvements they have made. I even bought one of their Master fuses to see what kind of a difference their best fuse could make. It is a leap above the Purple fuse in many ways although after about 150 hours of burn in, there is still an excessive brightness that still makes it difficult listening to.

The Swiss Digital fuse box, at least to my conceptual understanding, seemed like a potentially superior way to both protect the electronics without having to use a thin wire to achieve that aim. After about 55-60 hours with the fuse boxes installed, I would already consider it a major upgrade to my system.

Although both the SR Master fuse and the Swiss Digital fuse boxes provide characteristics that gets the sound closer to that in real life, the Swiss Digital fuse box goes further than the SR Master fuse so far in every characteristic that I have presently noticed.

Below is my initial take on the Swiss Digital fuse box with the attached Piggy Tail. My ZRock2 was taken out of my chain in order to eliminate its effects for this comparison.

What I first noticed was the music comes across as consistently energetic and live sounding. There is a distinct crispness in the leading edge of notes that adds to a sense of quickness. There is also an enhanced dynamic range in what appears to be both at the macro and micro levels. Large dynamic swings adds to a more life like listening experience.

The sound stage has become wider and deeper. With some recordings, made in larger spaces, the sound stage extends from wall to wall. The depth in the sound stage is deeper than I’ve ever heard before. With symphonic music, the sense that every instrument can be heard in its individual own space is outstanding. Choral music is as lifelike as I’ve ever heard on a system.

Bass appears to be deeper in overall tone and weight, as well as more articulate. There is clearly more low level resolution, even the quieter, more subtle bass lines, can be heard with distinct individual tonal and spatial characteristics. I’m hearing bass lines that I’ve never heard before, even with the SR Master fuse installed. The ways the bass drives the music has become quite exciting  and satisfying.

There is more high end energy in the musical signal and at times, with certain types of music, it can come across as excessive brightness. On much music, especially on acoustic and vocal music, the highs come across as natural and clear, without any excessive brightness.  Electronic music so far has been more of a mixed experience. I suspect a hot mastering of some music could be the root cause of my mixed results. Even with this occasional brightness, I’ve already decided that I would keep the SDFB in my system and adjust other things in my system if that is what it takes to remove this brightness. The other improvements the fuse boxes does it my system are so good, I would never want to go back.

I still have more burn in and listening to do. However at this point in time, I consider the Swiss Digital fuse box a groundbreaking product and a great bargain for the benefits it provides.

Good Morning

@ArtMan

I'm entirely grateful for your post here. Just makes it all quite worth-while for us here.

I'm smiling inside and out

Best wishes

Mark

@ArtMan

The reference is well appreciated

Ted D recently reminded many on Facebook that it was Audio Alchemy that loaned him the entirety of his system (except speakers) for his very first show back in '92 or '93. We know each other a long time. I genuinely like Ted a good deal.  l

I suspect that SDFB is on his radar - but with Master Fuses et all selling real well... I'm probably not much more than a small pimple

There are decisions coming re OEM and the new unit which is 220/240 and able to even do 32 amps MAX.

We are all very proud of SDFB -

MUCH More to follow

Best wishes - Mark

Just got my internet back--wind took it out last night, we had some high wind--at least it didn't take out our power, we've been pretty lucky the last two years.

I have plenty of leading edge definition in my system, have for a while. My cabling and my regenerator I think are mostly responsible for that, isolation treatment as well.

The mention of brightness keeps me hesitant towards the SDFB. With the electrical components and fuses I've installed and with a gift last week from Will. . . I've got more clarity and a natural tonal balance that I have expected to have . . . ever. So I'm going to keep enjoying that for now.

I'm grateful to all those supplying SDFB impressions.

Artman. I have not commented on the FuseBoxes yet because I have some variables I have had to work out in my system first... an amp that has well over 400 hours, but is newish still with my habit of gradual  tuning toward careful system integration. Also my PSAudio P5 failed, so I am playing with power, another big sound force here. And finally, I wanted to get the SDFBs burnt in more, and more fully sonically integrated before going back to the fuses I was using before the SDFBs. I want to be able to articulate more clearly what each are doing from a pretty optimal sound.

Getting there, and my sound is really good at this point, in many ways the best I have heard. But there are several new things contributing, the SDFBs one of them. And there is still a little to go to get the sound I need. Then a comparison between the SDFBs and fuses will be illuminating.  


I can say though, that a few weeks ago, my initial experience was unusual, in that the SDFB change was good and bad. But my system was weighing a bit on the darker denser side for me anyway... and I am also thinking now, that my system already had been so fine tuned, it may have already had many of the qualities the Fuseboxes helped create for many? So I heard good things from them, but they took things like density and weight and bass too far, making the bass a little heavy, slow and a little separate, while slightly masking some of the other really nice traits the fusebox setups can bring in the lower mids... smooth clarity, ease, natural speed, harmonic complexity... and leaving the top pretty clear and sweet.

More on all that later, but the thing I started to write about.... after 20 hours or so, loving the SDFB on a lot of recordings, I was not quite able to tune my sound with tubes and cables to be great across recordings. Closish, but not there. So I thought I should make some copper sluggos to try in the place of the gold plated ones that came with my SDFBs. The copper had an immediate balancing effect... still a little big/full for me, especially on bigger/fuller recordings, but it became well balanced across the spectrum.

Then I got some coppers from Mark, and those kept a good spectral balance, and lightened up the sound some too...even closer.

But at that beginning point, in my system, in that state of tuning, the gold plated sluggo turned out to be dissociating the upper mids up as nicely clear and complex, from the mid bass down being heavy and slowish, and the "balance" making the mids really nice, if a little sweet for my ultimate tastes, my setup already a little sweet. It was really good on simpler recordings, but tending less so on complex recordings with a lot of bass especially, the mid-bass down overall tending to a little too thick and slow, and in contrast, the upper mids up, a little thin and clear by comparison, though still pretty smooth here. And again, this balance disparity dissolved with Verafi coppers.

Anyway, I was reminded of this reading about your issues with brightness. I agree, playing with cables and tubes might "fix it." But also, maybe different sluggos if you have not gone there?

So far, with good gain balances, I am not getting brightness from either gold or copper here... resolved and clear, but also smooth and dense while retaining textures... without feeling concentrated. But I have worked a long time to get highly resolved detail that is not hard. I am wondering if a change up might help you though???

Will,

My present strategy is to get more burn in time with my SDFB. I am only about 80 hours in now and figure I probably need 200 hours minimum before I make any decisions about what comes next, if anything. When I received my fuse boxes, it came standard with the copper sluggos and from what others have reported, I am fine with copper.

As far as brightness goes, it now rare that I feel any irritation or perceived brightness with anything I play. There are still some exceptions but all in all, it appears to be headed in the right direction. I still am aware of extra energy in the highs but it is being manifested into a more dense and defined sound stage, not necessarily into perceived brightness. Time is likely to tell me more.

All in all, I am having a great time just listening to music. I am enjoying this burn in phase more than I have with any other previous change to my system. The sound is both immediate and live sounding. At some point in the not too distant future, I will have more to say. It is an exciting time.

Good information, thanks for sharing your experiment.

What gauge did you choose?  

Tony