Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
01/26/21 at 05:43:58 


       


Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
6SN7 tube (Read 4841 times)
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #100 - 01/12/21 at 03:05:47
 
Hey Will, thank you for the insights. All that said, I'm not hearing any noticeable improvement over my amperex 7308 gold pin. I have not connected my csp3 up to the Torii as of yet. It'll be interesting the difference the 6sn7 tube makes there.

After the accolades for how these 6sn7 can add holographic soundstage and lush mid-range I was very enthusiastic. A bit of a let down at this point.

Here's the list of 6sn7gt tubes I have on hand (all pre-1950)
RCA vt231 grey glass
Sylvania vt231
Natl Union US Navy cnu
Raytheon
Ken-Rad vt231 black glass

Jon
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 17597
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #101 - 01/12/21 at 05:50:31
 
Interesting. I don't hear more lush sound with this tube type, and my speaker location is a bit challenged for full holographic sound stage effect, but I do hear a more "fleshed out" instrumental image and a touch of an easier tonal balance, always good for a predominantly digital system. But so much depends on the remainder of the tube complement. I used to LOVE the 7308 sound, but with the SE84UFO3s with the Anniversary mods I moved away from rectification and regulation tubes that I used with the 7308 and preferred the 6N5 and 6N6 and now these in all the input spots of CSP3 with Anniversary mods and SE84UFO3 with Anniversary mods. That touch of ease they add is very appealing. And 6085 tubes with converter bases sound fantastic in my ZTPRE. I have come to really like the sound of bigger input tubes.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
  IP Logged
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #102 - 01/12/21 at 07:07:56
 
Lon, you described precisely what I thought might be the difference. I've been chatting with David, the culprit being the 6sn7 movement, and he encouraged patience in letting tubes settle in. Given that auditory memory is so poor, my impatience gets the best of me. I love tubes but I also like plug and play...the two don't go together if tube rolling is part of the process. C'est la vie.

Peace
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
piezoman
Seasoned Member
****


"If it ain't
broke, fix it!"

Posts: 382
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #103 - 01/12/21 at 17:50:25
 
I am settled on 6SN7GT.....RCA and Raytheon, in that order. The others I've tried, Sylvania, National Union, Ken-Rad, they had too many glaring faults.

RCA is definitely King.....the VT-231, very early 1940's.....smooth as silk, yet detailed across the board. In my system, the holy grail above all the 9 pin types. Perfecto. Thing is, they cost....and more than worth it. So I now have a lifetime+ supply and the rest of the noise is gone from my inventory.

$$ + experience = knowledge.
Back to top
 
 

Taboo MK IV-25th
CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed.
ZRock2-25th
ZBIT
Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo towers
Bryston BDA-3 / BDP-2
Brick Wall Surge/Line Conditioner, Ansuz Sparkz Conditioning
Audeze LCD-3F
IC's: DSR-II, BC Silver XLR
Cables: ZStyx, DHC-1, Curious
  IP Logged
piezoman
Seasoned Member
****


"If it ain't
broke, fix it!"

Posts: 382
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #104 - 01/12/21 at 17:54:52
 
Hey HK, what's the gig?
Back to top
 
 

Taboo MK IV-25th
CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed.
ZRock2-25th
ZBIT
Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo towers
Bryston BDA-3 / BDP-2
Brick Wall Surge/Line Conditioner, Ansuz Sparkz Conditioning
Audeze LCD-3F
IC's: DSR-II, BC Silver XLR
Cables: ZStyx, DHC-1, Curious
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 587
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #105 - 01/12/21 at 18:00:17
 
No tube yet, lost in the USPS Illinois wasteland somewhere.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2 cart + Modwright PH 9.0X phono pre OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 streamer/DAC > CSP3-25th mods preamp > ZMA-25th mods amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Lii15 speakers > various cables & tweaks.
  IP Logged
piezoman
Seasoned Member
****


"If it ain't
broke, fix it!"

Posts: 382
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #106 - 01/12/21 at 21:24:14
 
That's a bummer, I hope you get that tube momentarily.

No thanks to the way hyped-up covid nonsense utterly unnecessary bullshit.
Back to top
 
 

Taboo MK IV-25th
CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed.
ZRock2-25th
ZBIT
Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo towers
Bryston BDA-3 / BDP-2
Brick Wall Surge/Line Conditioner, Ansuz Sparkz Conditioning
Audeze LCD-3F
IC's: DSR-II, BC Silver XLR
Cables: ZStyx, DHC-1, Curious
  IP Logged
bokat57
Senior Member
***




Posts: 56
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #107 - 01/13/21 at 16:04:59
 
" hyped-up covid nonsense utterly unnecessary bullshit."

4,406 Deaths and 229,712 new cases in the US yesterday alone.*

22.9 Million cases and 381,000 Deaths total in US *

Yeah Right

* https://www.google.com/search?q=us+covid+stats&oq=us+covid+st&aqs=chrome.0.0i131...
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 PS Audio DirectStream Omega Super 3S
Fanless PC / Roon
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 587
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #108 - 01/13/21 at 20:50:29
 
Received the RCA 6SN7 and have it with the 6922-6SN7 adapter sitting in the CSP3 playing music. I'll give it a full week or more to settle in.

Initial impressions are mixed. Compared with the Gold Pin Mullard 6922 the sound is denser with increased emphasis in the bass and lower mid-range. Decent soundstage width and depth. Doesn't have the clarity and presence in the treble region of the 6922 or 6N5P tube. With the 6SN7 music, particularly vocals, are located more front and center in the soundstage.

I'll report back after I get at least 100 hours on the tube.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2 cart + Modwright PH 9.0X phono pre OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 streamer/DAC > CSP3-25th mods preamp > ZMA-25th mods amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Lii15 speakers > various cables & tweaks.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 17597
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #109 - 01/13/21 at 21:12:33
 
You are right to give the tube some time, it took some time for me for them to open up--and the overall sound got best when I had all three tubes in the CSP3 and the two in the Monoblocks as 6SN7.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #110 - 01/14/21 at 00:50:56
 
I have still been trying 6SN7 mostly in the CSP3 output position, but shifted to the Torii yesterday to see what I could do.

Especially in my Torii, the 6SN7 is so different from our more typical 9 pin tubes, to get a similar tonal balance, while opening the mids enough to pull their lively potential, I think the 6SN7 is the most difficult tube to adjust of any I have tried. Yet I continue because of its compelling qualities once fine tuned.

With those I have, some pretty definitely true NOS, 25 hours or so is needed to start to open up, and more like 50 or more to really start to hear them.

I don't think I would quite call the mids lush either, probably more calling them richly complex...clear, defined, with good textures and spacial information once tuned. That said my 51 smoked glass RCA 6SN7-GTs, when opened up with other tubes, have what I think of as classic warmth.... darkish, while still having good detail and spacial information. Also being a little slow, I guess one could tune it to sound "lush" with the right supporting tubes.

Here, if used plug-and-play in the Torii, some more than others, the 6SN7s are so powerful sounding, and balanced toward bass, they are overstated, dark, and thick.

Soundstage-wise, once tuned to compensate for there powered up nature, they have a nice stage, but about the same as 9 pin tubes I prefer, some tube sets a little better than others with either type.

Still running into variations of the same issues in my system as with the 1st 6SN7 I tried, with 4 pairs now, I can call my difficulties with it tube type related. In the Torii, and to a lesser degree in the CSP3 output, unless very carefully compensated for, they are notably too bold, and balancing toward dark especially when averaged across recordings. So to really hear what the tube can do, I need to open them up spectrally and relax them with other tubes.

Reducing power, bass and thickness in the balance in a just-so way is easier for me to get using the Torii, it having VRs in the blend. But I need to pay attention to both the Torii and CSP3 to get the magic, and especially in the Torii, each 6SN7 seems to need a little different adjustment to get the magic across most recordings. My CSP3 outputs utilize them really well and much more easily.

The complimentary Torii tube sets I like best so far are sort of predictable in some respects (working mostly with milder VRs and rectifiers), but still a challenge to open the 6SN7 just right across recordings while creating tonal beauty, great fine detail and space, and without losing too much bass power.

Two base-line Torii sets using variations on the Voltage Regulators to reduce power:

[Torii VRs had been confusing to me until I noticed O_3 types cut more voltage as the letters go up. So an OB3 reduces voltage to the power tubes more than an OA3, relaxing the tubes they are filtering some. Whereas, the little VRs are the opposite. OC2 cut the voltage least, the input tubes left bolder, and OA2s, cut voltage more, relaxing/opening the inputs.]

This set is a pretty good base here when using 6SN7s in the Torii inputs, focussed on toning down the inputs more:

AZ1 ST-shaped mesh plate rectifiers
OB3
Hytron OA2
TubeStore Preferred 6L6GC
Normal inputs when using the 6SN7s in the CSP3 output are:
Heerlen made, early 60s ECC189s

With voltage reductions being a little less, and reduced in the opposite way (none for inputs, and more for power tubes), I like this set a little more just now for using the 6SN7s in the CSP3 outputs:

AZ1
OC3 - mid-40s Hytron
75C1 (OC2)
TubeStore Preferred 6L6GC
Heerlen made, early 60s ECC189s

The first three tubes open up the sound compared to more stock-like tube sets. Finding stock Torii sets overstated (in my system/room anyway) I usually use well balanced but less forceful AZ1/RGN1064 rectifiers or similar, OB3, 75C1 (euro OC2), and ECC... or PCC... inputs rather than E88CC, so my sound is already more open and less bold than using stock OA3, OC2, and new Chinese 274Bs or similar. AZ1/RGN1064 being 4 volts, I am not sure how they would work in all amps, but in my Torii and CSP3, they seem to work well over the last several years. The sound is nicely balanced, spacious with warmth, and complex, but less intense than many 5 volt, higher powered rectifiers.

The TubeStore Preferred 6L6GC might be described as a little more powerful feeling version of an American made 807. Or maybe as a more nuanced and complex sounding Tungsol 7027A. I am guessing the heavier construction of Tungsols contributes a lot of the Tungsol power tube tendency toward solidity and less textural complexity. Though I have liked using the 7027A, I prefer the nuance and fine information complexity of this 6L6GC.

To test 6SN7 tubes in the Torii, in the CSP3, I used the following relatively low key, but quite clear, open, slightly warm and solid set:

AZ1 globe mesh plate
Siemens E88CC with hallow getters outputs
Siemens E288CC red label input

The Siemens E88CC and E288CC, and OC3 and OA2s almost never get used used here, each being too powerfully articulating and opening for me in general. But this clarity is needed for these 6SN7s in my setup.

With these baselines, all my 6SN7s sound different, but these clearer, less intense tube sets allow the 6SN7s to be closer to what I consider their fuller potential.... opened enough to have better balance across more recordings, bringing out more mid openness, while still being bold, but not bold enough to sound unnatural.

Even so, in the Torii, with my gains normally set, all these tend to be too warm for my tastes, but pretty fun to listen to, with tight enough and deep/full enough bass to sound pretty real.

When not testing, having two pre gain/voltage adjusters before the Torii, I can tune for more or less bass, weight and intensity depending on recordings.


I tested these as Torii inputs leaving gains set the same, and using the same lower key support tubes:

- 51 clear glass RCA GTA with two side getters, silver letters: Thinking it is still a little green, I can't compare it conclusively. But now, it has a nice balance, a little warm for me with this setting, but relatively revealing and fast, smooth and solid. It is still too dark on darker recordings, full/thickness leaking upwards, masking and slowing the sound, especially mids down. But on more neutrally balanced ones, it can be beautiful. Just now, this tube is a little quieter (dBs) and less complex than the others. But in this quickish test it is nice, and if I am right about burnin, I look forward to more time on it.

***BUT, another wild card came up when listening louder! Similarly to having always gotten early distortion using 6N1Ps in my Torii MKIV, I get less with these, but still! When loud, distortions can subtly show up in many areas of sound, but they are especially noticeable on fuller recordings with a lot of harmonic information, like harder notes of woman's voices, Ralph Towner's guitar, hard piano notes, or solo violin! More on this below...

- 55 clear glass RCA GT with offset plates and bottom D/horseshoe getter, silver letters: On more balanced recordings, similar balance as above, but louder, faster, and more articulate, more spacious and textured than the '51 with side getters. With well balanced recordings, this tube is spacious and revealing while being quite complex. BUT, with darker material, leaving the pres set the same, both of these similar sounding RCAs are still dark and veiled, probably needing additional tube tuning to work across recordings, at least for me.

***BUT, with louder play, this one slides into early distortion too!

- 51 Smoke glass RCA GT, sliver letters: when recordings are not dark, this tube gives an unusually good "warmth." Here it has the power and articulation to push quite good detail, complexity, and ambient information through its darkish basis. And its slightly slow leading edges support a pleasant smoothness. Though probably a little rolled off way up, on balanced recordings they reveal detail and associated ambient information really well..... But on a little darker recordings, even though it does warmth well, it sounds pretty unnatural to me without further tube tuning. Though the smoked glass uses what looks like similar construction as the above tube, I did not notice as much tendency to distortion when playing this tube louder in the Torii, but it is still there.

- Chrome top Sylvania GTB, halo top getter, green letters, guessing 60s: A little slow on leading edges, but with quite nice dynamics otherwise, it is open but with a more solid and articulate mid body than the others. Good spaciousness contrasts this body nicely, creating quite good complexity and ambient information. Though just a little rolled off way up, here, I like this midrange for its slightly full and solid, and dynamic character, while still being pretty complex. The complexity is weighted more toward ambient information than textures, but to me, not excessively.

Loud, this one has subtler early distortion similar to the smoked glass.

For my preferences, especially for all the RCAs, but for all, I would have to further tune my tube sets to accommodate them as Torii inputs if I wanted excellence across recordings, which I do!


*** On distortion. Move the same tubes to the CSP3 outputs, they sound notably more complete and balanced, and no distortion problems. This might support my thought that they could be like 6N1Ps in my Torii. 6N1P always falling into early distortion, I think I recall Steve attributing this to some Toriis having a too low "knee" for the tube???....I think I recall it being associated with the higher draw the 6N1P has on the amp. But not clear on just what is up, as a minor test, I tried going from OA2, to OB2s, and then 75C1s for input VRs, to gradually up the voltage to the input tubes. Each step, the distortion improved a little, but it was not totally solved. And checking tube specs, the 6SN7 looks much closer to a 6N1P than 6922/E88CC variants.

If I really cared about 6N1P and these tubes as inputs, and if I am correct about the cause, I imagine Steve would tell me how to adjust resistors to solve this issue. But finally, after these tests, though much better than without compensation, for now I am ready to give up on 6SN7s in the Torii.

Difficulty getting optimal musical balances with this tube type in the Torii was a reason for my trying them in the CSP3 outputs earlier. And there they are still a little touchy in terms of bringing out their best across recordings, but used as OTL preamp "power" tubes, the pre seems to even up, open, articulate and increase clarity and dynamics from the 6SN7, just like it tends to do with other tubes. Once a good balance was found in the Torii to tone down the whole, and some tuning in the CSP3 for more clarity, so far the 6SN7 in the CSP3 outputs work very well across recordings.

The Torii tube set I like for this above, the base tube set in the CSP3 with 6SN7s as outputs is AZ1 (or some more open GZ32, or 5V4G fat bottles can work pretty well too), and the very open, linear and articulate Siemens red label E288CC for the input. With the E288CC I found I can use open, but pretty powerful tubes in the CSP3, getting a nice complex, spacious, punchy and open body with the CSP3 powered up a little and the Torii powered down. If a particular 6SN7 is too concentrated and closed, I so far use an AZ1 rectifier to reduce density and open space and textures. Or if a 6SN7 can take more power while remaining open and textured, not becoming too dense, a Sofia Aqua 274B is really good in initial tests.

So after a lot of trial and error, in my system, the 6SN7s are compelling but perhaps not worth the challenges in the Torii, nine-pin sets being more natural and balanced sounding there.

But in the CSP3 outputs, with the right supporting tubes in Torii and CSP3, the 6SN7 do not overwhelm the sound with their nature, rather being quite compelling and a very real option for changing up the sound in beautiful ways, balanced across the spectrum, and across recordings. All of the 6SN7s I got work well in this use, hearing their beauty once fine-tuned...

On the other hand, when I put back in favored 9 pin tube sets, I always relax. I miss aspects of the 6SN7 blend of solid body, mid clarity and smooth/articulate mid complexity for a while, but enjoy the slightly more relaxed sound from my 9 pin sets which are fast, revealing, complex, finely detailed, spacious and punchy...also inviting. I guess at this early learning phase if I could find it, I might love a tube somewhere between 6SN7 and 6922/E88CC variants. But I do like combining them using 9 pins in one component, and 6SN7 in  the other quite a lot!


So Safe and HK. if you have been listening to the 6SN7, plug and play just changing an input, I agree, they need burnin to hear them, and my guess is that the 6SN7 may be just too intense/full in your setups too to hear fully what they are capable of. From your 1st impressions, I am thinking some level of adjusting VRs and rectifiers and/or other tubes to calm and open the whole might better reveal the 6SN7 potential there similarly to how it did here.
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #111 - 01/14/21 at 04:57:50
 
As usual, Will, your analysis is thorough at the very least. Thank you.

I'm awaiting socket savers to firmly install the 6sn7 tubes... Not my favorite look. I will modify the adapters if I find the sound profile worth the change.

I will also be rolling vr & rectifier tubes, which I have a good array.

To be clear, what I've heard has been good. Like you, I'm not sure it's better.

Peace

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 17597
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #112 - 01/14/21 at 07:41:04
 
"I'm not sure it's better." That's a given for any of us--our rooms, our choices in gear and our tastes make these experiments with varying results. It always astonishes me on other internet places when groups come up with "absolutes." I can find none or very very few that I can entertain.

Another great "essay" Will, I've experienced similar changes with rectifiers, regulators, input etc. Once broken in what I like most about these tubes is how they react to the varying density of the signal--gain riding is a crucial tool for their effectiveness in my systems-especially between ZTPRE and ZROCK2 and CSP3. I've been able to enjoy them and avoid distortion.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 587
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #113 - 01/14/21 at 12:43:09
 
Burning in this tube will have to wait. Receiving some new Hapa Audio interconnect cables in for review which will require 250 hours before reaching full potential, so I need my gold pin Mullard back in the CSP3 output position.

Can't change too many things at once and my ears are tuned to this tube combination.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2 cart + Modwright PH 9.0X phono pre OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 streamer/DAC > CSP3-25th mods preamp > ZMA-25th mods amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Lii15 speakers > various cables & tweaks.
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #114 - 01/14/21 at 16:37:04
 
Safe,

You are welcome. If you plugged and played, and the 6SN7s were not necessarily burned in, and they were close to your preferred 7308s, getting more from them might be pretty easy. Especially since you have a nice selection of rectifiers and VRs to get a feel for how they change the 6SN7s and hopefully hit on a combination that really sings! Who knows, balancing the tube set down even a little, might put those respected 6SN7s you found in a new category. And a little more finessing with supporting tubes could possibly take them to different level altogether....hope so.


Lon,

Thanks, and I agree. I really depend on gain riding. Pretty much everything I listen to gets some quick turns of the CSP3 and ZBIT dials. Each effecting the signal differently, the ZBIT mainly relaxing or intensifying clean and clarifying signal intensity, dynamics, and weight, and the CSP3 having similar effects, but with elucidating and potentially weighty tube qualities enlivening its signal power adjustments. I love the ability to easily do fine tune with each, often adjusting one or the other a little more in the balance to pull the best from a recording.

And yes, these tubes are so "expressive" of themselves, I found just-so gain adjustments more critical with them before toning the whole tube sets down enough that gain riding effects got closer to "normal" for me. Who knows where these tube adjustments will go for me now that I have pretty good baselines, but now, the 6SN7s in the CSP3 outputs, I think I reach distortion pretty much the same as with the tubes sets that sound best to me with 9 pins...with hard notes a touch above the very top of my serious listening levels.

The distortion I was getting using 6SN7s in the Torii seemed pretty much like 6N1Ps here, but happened at a higher volume. Seems to me that once around a certain level of voltage in the Torii, they just distorted no matter the gain balance that got me there. And like the 6N1P, they were fine at lower volume, just having a lower threshold before subtle distortion than more usual 9 pin tubes. It may be Steve sorted this out, as mine was an early MKIV. I miss a lot, but I have not noticed anyone else having the same issue on the forum anyway.
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 17597
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #115 - 01/14/21 at 17:25:26
 
Right, I know from the past that the Toriis acted a bit differently with gain at the input than the Zen amps. It's been long enough since I had a Torii that I can't conjure up specifics, but after I moved to larger rooms with those amps I did find distortion to be an issue with 6N1P and moved to other tubes. I don't have the same issues with those tube types with the 6N1P, 6N5P or 6N6P or these 6SN7. If I overdrive the amps the first distortions happen far above my listening levels. Lucky I guess!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #116 - 01/14/21 at 20:47:07
 

Interesting. I have only heard early distortion with Torii inputs using 6N1P, and now, 6SN7s. I have not used 6N6 or 6N5Ps much, but when I have, I have not noticed early distortion with them. Guess I should do a little investigation. Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #117 - 01/15/21 at 05:37:23
 
I ended up using a dremel to countersink the amp's deck screw-heads into the bottom of the adapters. I have two types of adapters: metal wrapped base and a bakelite base. Both worked out fine and look great sitting flush onto Torii and CSP3. Much better look than socket saver+adapter+6sn7.

Intentional or not, Steve designed these units to look good as well as function exceptionally well. I highly value the aesthetic of the Torii and CSP3, as I'm sure others like the looks of their Decware units. The 6sn7 tubes blend in well now that they're no taller than the rectifiers.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #118 - 01/15/21 at 07:05:51
 
Nice, glad to hear the dremel worked. I agree, quite intentional I am sure, Steve's designs are nice!
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
piezoman
Seasoned Member
****


"If it ain't
broke, fix it!"

Posts: 382
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #119 - 01/15/21 at 18:12:14
 
i too pulled the dremel trick on both of my adapters into the input stage [preamp, amp]. took about 5 mins. total.

muy excellente!
Back to top
 
 

Taboo MK IV-25th
CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed.
ZRock2-25th
ZBIT
Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo towers
Bryston BDA-3 / BDP-2
Brick Wall Surge/Line Conditioner, Ansuz Sparkz Conditioning
Audeze LCD-3F
IC's: DSR-II, BC Silver XLR
Cables: ZStyx, DHC-1, Curious
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #120 - 01/15/21 at 20:36:33
 
Yesterday I got some adaptors from Hong Kong, heavy bronze looking surround, plastic/epoxy interior base, ceramic top/interior, gold plated connections. Nice adaptors!

But the pins were a little short with the screws holding them out. They seemed to work fine, but if I wiggled them, I heard static. Being that close to weak pin connections, I figured they were not good enough for the best sound either. Dremeling them to accommodate the amp's tube socket screw heads, now resting very close to flush with the amp plate, the pins connect much better, and they sound better too. More solid and complete sounding now, though they appeared to be working before, they were not connecting optimally.

EDIT: Especially not knowing what was in the metal alloy or epoxy, and diamond bits on the Dremel making a fine dust, I wore a mask.
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #121 - 01/15/21 at 22:00:17
 
Will,

Please explain "they were not connecting optimally.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #122 - 01/15/21 at 22:16:53
 
Hey Safe. It seemed the adaptor pins were not deep enough in the tube socket for a totally solid connection. Before dremeling, carefully put in, they were connecting enough to work as expected. But once I dremeled space for the screws in the bottom of the adaptors, the pins went  deeper into the tube socket connectors. And with a stronger hold between the pins and tube sockets, the adaptor pins having more complete contact with the socket connections, the electronic connection is better, so the sound is better.
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
safebelayer
Senior Member
***




Posts: 78
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #123 - 01/15/21 at 23:05:03
 
Will,

I apparently misread your last sentence, pre-edit comment about wearing a mask (good call--the bakelite base creates even more dust).

I read your last sentence to mean, even with the better seating pins, it was not connecting optimally.

Thank you for the clarification. 👍👍
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2297
Re: 6SN7 tube
Reply #124 - 01/15/21 at 23:33:00
 
Sorry about that Safe. Thanks for the heads up. I added "before" to that sentence, now reading: "More solid and complete sounding now, though they appeared to be working before, they were not connecting optimally."
Back to top
 
 

Power-PSA P5, Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+>RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>Kitsune Singxer>Gustard x20pro DAC modified; Cables: Pi Audio PC, DIY: PCs, ICs, USB, Speaker; Decware- CSP3, Torii IV, HR1-all modified; DIY ZBIT; feet- Archie's, alum/ball bearing, and more
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print