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Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment. (Read 6873 times)
GroovySauce
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Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
09/16/20 at 15:07:07
 
I bought a box of 6 x OC 702 2Ē Plans are to make some absorbers. The acoustic transparent fabric has not yet arrived. I tried putting the box in the corner of the room behind the left speaker. †

As you can see it was very effective! at less than $100 this made a big difference in the suckout at 50-60hz and 140hz. It also dropped the 30-40hz range by almost 1db!

I also found ATS Acoustic sells Roxul scraps 20 pounds in a 25x49x12" box for $12! problem is it's a large box and heavy so it costs ~$50 to ship to the Philly suburbs. They are located in Illinois.

Still at $62 + a sheet to cover the box I think itís a bargain.

If you are going to work with Roxul take precautions. Some people are saying itís almost as toxic as asbestos.

Iím getting a few more boxes of 703 Iím thinking Iím going to leave the box in the corner and just cover it with a sheet.


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Lonely Raven
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #1 - 09/22/20 at 02:36:13
 
Very cool findings!

I'm glad to see you're taking measurements!

Don't forget, you have many, many more corners you could try your box-o-absorption in...middle wall between speakers, back wall, ceiling corners if you feel adventurous. Have fun with it...since you're measuring, you may as well figure out what wall/intersection works best!
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gsanger
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #2 - 09/22/20 at 03:46:27
 
Love it!  I'm a firm believer in room treatment, and love to see people actually putting it up...or, uh, stuffing it in the corner!
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #3 - 09/26/20 at 14:10:48
 
Thanks guys!

LR, I bought 5 boxes of 6x2" so I've tried a lot of positions. The front left was the most effective for a single box.

I'm slowly converting those boxes into panels.

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I built 8 so far, shooting to have another 8ish done next week. I estimate I'll need 14-18 2x4' panels to get the reverb to a good level. The lower frequencies I'm just going to have to live with for now.

Acoustic treatment is a tough sell until, you experience music in a treated room. It's all over after that, you become obsessed with it.

The cost per 25.25x49.5" panels are just under $30 each. that includes 703, fiberglass, staples, wood, wood glue, nails and acoustically transparent cloth.

tools used: chopsaw, drill, hammer, stapler, scissors, tape measure and pencil


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Lonely Raven
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #4 - 09/28/20 at 04:20:50
 

Next work on some QRD Diffusers and you'll really know room treatment!
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #5 - 09/28/20 at 14:30:52
 
I was thinking I would just not make any QRD Diffusers.... Well now I feel I have too!

The clarity is just going through the roof, it's so seductive right now! I'm only half way done with the absorbers.

Here is a room response with and without the panels. I did tweak the seating and speaker positions a little so, it's not 100% accurate representation of the effects.


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The reverb is coming way down too! was over 200ms is some areas now 90-130ms. shooting for 70-80ms
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #6 - 09/29/20 at 23:21:14
 

Don't forget the ceiling - the typical reflection time from speaker to ceiling to seating position is 5ms to 12ms and will smear your imaging.

Just for testing sake, you would pin a moving blanket to the ceiling between you and the speaker and do your measurement and listen and see how it changes your imaging. If you get that Oh Wow! positive change in sound then consider making a cloud absorber or something.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #7 - 09/30/20 at 01:16:10
 
I hear you, getting some absorption on the ceiling is needed. In this location, I cannot screw or put holes in the ceiling. Any thoughts for a solution?

My first thought is to make a pergola type structure with 2x4's. doesn't seem feasible right now. It will be a lot of material and getting all the parts and assembled would be a PITA.
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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #8 - 09/30/20 at 01:50:58
 
Wear a felt sombrero.
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piezoman
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #9 - 02/23/21 at 18:46:31
 
Hey Groove, do you have any pics of your finished work? Looks like you're doing a real nice job.

By the way, may I ask what led you to go with 2" thick/deep vs. 4" for absorption?

-Brad
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #10 - 03/04/21 at 15:00:53
 
I knew I wasn't going to be here for too long. So I wanted to make 2" for transportation. After I move I'm going to make diaphragmatic bass absorbers and quadratic diffusers.

I have two different finishes one is more of a burlap the other is more of a heavy/thick speaker cloth.



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Mannytheseacow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #11 - 04/02/22 at 15:24:24
 
Itís so cool to see the results of treatments on your graphs, especially since we canít hear it for ourselves in this venue.  Thank you for documenting that!
What cloth are you using, and have you found one of the two to be better?
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DirtDawg
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #12 - 04/02/22 at 19:33:58
 
Same thoughts, exactly.
Kind of surprised to see such an improvement from the lower octave or so with your two inch thickness absorbers.
Very nice!

You said you moved some things. Can we presume that some of the improvements to the low end are to be attributed to the physical, placement adjustments?
Not trying to challenge, but trying to learn more.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #13 - 04/03/22 at 00:44:24
 
I used ATS acoustics burlap and Acoustimac DMD fabric. The ATS Burlap is better acoustically, DMD looks much better. Iím hesitant to say the DMD is truly acousticly transparent.†

DirtDawg, rereading my post, I see, I wasnít very clear. I added 4 boxes of 6x 2Ē panels, meaning 12Ē deep of 703 fiberglass. 2Ē panels didnít provide the difference in the two measurements. The first picture with the box that is 12Ē deep of 703. I also have more of those boxes in the room in addition to the 2Ē fabric covered panels.†

It was over a year ago, Iím giving myself the benefit that the only difference was the fiberglass in the room.†Moving the listening position and the speakers is also a good way to even out the frequency response. Eventually, treatment is needed to correct room distortion.

Iím still surprised about the radical change shown on the measurements. If I saw someone else post this, I would be skeptical. Iím questioning my testing methods. What Iíve learned in the year and a half since I did that is, I should have run the sweep at a higher SPL. It would have been more telling at 80dB SPL vs. the 72-74 dB that I did when I ran the sweep. 99% of my listening is with peaks under 80dB.†The pressure difference, between 74 and 80 dB SPL, is immensely more energy that needs to be managed.†Meaning that the measurements may be misleading.

I am questioning the measurements. However, actual listening is immensely more engaging and, to me, that is more important than measurements and theory.



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DirtDawg
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #14 - 04/03/22 at 03:41:06
 
Thanks, Groovy,

That explains it a bit more clearly.
So having a couple more of those boxes of fluff sitting around in cardboard might be doing more good than anyone might think?

The pic with the open box of 703 shows what might be acting as a deadening resonator at some frequency and possibly adjustable by how open it is, but who knows.

As far as measuring at what volume, old practice I learned is to take measurements at extremes, both high volume and low.
Start at low volume (say a little above talking) and paying particular attention to any changes as you increase the volume gradually, until you get to about 10dB above where you think the normal loudest passages might land. This high volume will account for your desired headroom.
You will have no friends if you follow this practice, but the information you gain will be useful.

When switching over to sweeps, it is even more important that you "energize" †the room with a reasonably loud setting, say 4 or 6dB above normal.

Closed in tight spaces, I am still learning. This is what I used to find some of my most troubling areas to address and funny thing, the measurements I took confirmed what I already knew I was hearing. Imagine that.

I am not an authority, just an old guy with loads of questions as to how any of my previous successes can transpose to our tiny household listening rooms.

Thanks for the clarification.



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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #15 - 04/03/22 at 14:05:21
 
It might be doing more good than one would think.

I took the photo with it open to give more information. I taped them closed.

That sounds like a good plan for taking meaningful measurements. 10dB above loudest passages makes sense to me.
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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #16 - 05/18/23 at 22:23:20
 
Ugly is right. I did something to a greater extent than usual today. You see, the wife went to visit family for 3 weeks in the Philippines. What to do, what, to, do?
Race home from the airport, throw some pillows around, hang clothes from the wall, and place chairs with pillows on them,,, and Then LISTEN. I have never heard such a dramatic effect in all of my years just now, Listening to Golden Earring Radar Love album. They jumped off the wall. The sound started from my nose to 20 feet out and everywhere else around. I am still stunned.

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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #17 - 05/18/23 at 22:48:36
 
Ok, so I am sure that somebody is in the house and stops moving the second that I hit  pause.   Spooky.
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Sean
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #18 - 05/19/23 at 01:57:42
 
I present to you the mind of a madman, fairly ugly. Not pretty, but it's getting better and better sound wise. Once I find the sweet spots the "panels" will get  wrapped up and hung a bit nicer. To the back left corner is my wife's office. Good news is she's moving her office out of the house, so things are just gonna get uglier!


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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #19 - 05/19/23 at 02:49:35
 
 See? It isn't just me. Acoustics have always made the biggest impact by far, not even being in the same realm as some of the crap sold out there.
Ok, so I am first to admit, what I have done is not pretty. It can be undone in minutes, and now, I think that I will 'rediscover' another album.
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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #20 - 05/20/23 at 02:21:55
 
 Just got to add an update. Fired everything up again today, and no, it wasn't my imagination. Having said that, it still can't fix a crappy recording. If anything, it reveals it. The good recordings are still head turners.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #21 - 05/20/23 at 14:34:18
 
I love it!

Once you hear it you cannot unhear it, that's the rub.

Covering the TV with good absorption is such an easy and highly effective move.

I have the same experience with poor quality recordings, they don't sound better however, they are more enjoyable to listen to.

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Sean
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #22 - 05/21/23 at 19:34:04
 
It's baffling to me, pun intended. I tried treatment on the front wall in the past and it just sucked the life out of the room. I framed and wrapped (this is going to need redone, it's still ugly) the panels in front of the tv and put footers on them so I could move them around. I found spacing them out sounds best as opposed to bunching them together as one big panel. Instead of mineral wool these are cotton (blue jean) insulation. It was extra and not being used, so why not experiment. Perhaps the cotton is better than the mineral wool or maybe it's a change in the system since I last tried it. In any case, last night's listening was great. The speakers disappeared and even a beat to crap Eagles record left me wanting more and more.
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4krow
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Re: Ugly Effective Acoustic Treatment.
Reply #23 - 05/21/23 at 23:29:45
 
"Turn out the lights, the party's over." Willie never sang so true. Last straw was tripping over acoustic treatments on floor level. It was fun folks, but I have started to hang my clothes where they belong. Comforters are being put back in plastic tubs, well, one of them anyway. I have to ween myself here.
 We now return to our regularly scheduled program, now in progress.
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