Archie,

Thanks for the update. I'm thinking about sending in my ZP3 for the upgrade and glad to hear the positive news so quickly.

JD

I've done about a half a dozen or so fully modded ZROCK2's with the tube regulation and bypass caps and it passes the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode Amplifier test as a component in the signal path that does not detract from the transparency... the tone of this device is like the best Swiss chocolate you've ever tasted and the textures and depth in the bass are of course what make that magic in the midrange possible.

I've been able to talk to most everyone after getting one now, and everyone seems to agree it is a music fixer of the highest order.  You know, not all Decware components can have the FULL anniversary mods, which are 100% tube regulation of all stages and multi-sage bypass caps on every stage.  I couldn't be more thrilled to have this tone generator at the heart of a reference system and be controllable to the point where everyone uses it and requires it.  To me that says it is fixing the recording and the room while leaving everything in the middle pretty much untouched.

If you listen to a ZROCK2 on a pair of 20 Hz folded Horns featuring 15 inch high efficiency drivers the low bass is insane. For those who attended the DECFEST when we played Randy's bass demo on the Imperial Folded Horns and got the entire blocks undivided attention... remember, that was without a ZROCK2.  Had we put that in the mix the low 25Hz bass in that track would have been twice as loud causing serious concern for our safety!

Today I had the pleasure to chat with a gentleman with a pair of high efficiency speakers that are rated to below 30Hz, but always sounded lean.  Even with different room placements and different amplifiers this was the common denominator.  He purchased a ZROCK2 on good faith and is now hearing and feeling solid low frequency foundational underpinnings that were simply not there before.  No subwoofer is needed now.  Imagine how difficult it would be to get a subwoofer to have the same phase angle and speed signature having higher mass than the main driver.... not to mention get it to sound like it's not in a different location or lagging behind.  Yes, it can be done, but it will end up being probably custom and costing as much as the speakers or the amplifier or both.  So life got a lot better for this fellow.  

(end of post - quick memory - Before Decware went online we were a commercial audio contractor doing custom systems one of which was a local night club with a bass problem.  They had 4-18 inch subs in the corner of the dance floor and 4 - 400W Yamahah amplifiers driving them through RANE crossovers, and had no bass.  Typical complaint btw.

We went down there and listened to it for a bit and they were right...there was no bass.  In fact the sound was painfully thin and dry.  I told the owner, yea, you don't have any bass.  I can make a single 15 inch woofer wreck this place with less than 20 watts of real power and of course got the look.

After a little persuasion I challenged him by promising to shake all the ashtrays on the tables in the entire building with a bass note from a single 15 inch woofer driven by a 20 watt amplifier just to illustrate what is possible.

Of course the challenge was accepted.  If I succeed, we get the sound contract and your business explodes because unlike what they think, it's not the alcohol that drives the business, it's the sound.  We have proved it more than once.

We set a date, the following night.  My friend Paul and I loaded up an Imperial Folded Horn that we had been tormenting the neighbors with into the truck and hauled it to the club.  It weights 400 lbs, so we had a dolly with us.  The Imperial was modified for the job at hand.  We took out the 15 inch driver and made a blank plywood panel to cover the 15 inch hole where the driver was.  Attached to this panel was a 12 x 12 x 12 inch box with a 12 inch driver in it that wasn't more than 92 dB efficient.  The cube was sealed, and the driver faced the rear of the cabinet so the front of the cabinet where you normally see a 15 inch woofer was just a blank piece of plywood.

This particular alignment Paul and I found by trial and error from months of testing things.  It creates 22 dB of gain at 22Hz.  Yes, the cabinet by itself creates that much gain with a single 12 inch driver...

Don't worry the story is gust getting good...  We wheeled this 28 cubic foot cabinet into the club and placed in the same corner as the existing subs on the dance floor.  We had no intension of hooking it the the DJ booth, or it's pathetic amplifiers.  We brought a tube signal generator with us and the source and on that particular night the only thing we could find in the shop for amplification was an old Hamon Kardon receiver with one channel blown.  

We hooked the good channel of the Harmon Kardon receiver up to the Imperial and connected the Frequency generator up to the inputs.  The place was fairly busy.  There were people eating and hanging out in all the various areas of the club.  The bar was active and soon there would be people wanting to dance...

I told the owner, when you are ready to hear what is possible with regards to bass response in this club let me know and we'll begin the demonstration.

Signal received and I put the frequency generator on 100Hz and turned up the volume until there was a nice growl that the entire area could clearly start to feel.  This was of course the point where many patrons of the establishment looked up to hear what was going on...

As slow as I possibly could ( just as I had done a hundred times at my shop at home ) I began to drop the frequency.  You see, the slower you drop it, the more the phase angle relationship between the space and the woofer begin to twist the room in a very physical way... It's similar to letting an organ pipe blow for several seconds before the low bass wave manifests.

So down the slope we go, 100, 99, 98, ....60Hz.   Now I am noticing people are getting fidgety at their tables... Looking around trying to figure out what hell is that???  I suspect the club owner was thinking the same thing as he was no doubt expecting a MUSIC demo and that's definitely not was this was.

As I slowly continued to drop it the frequency, and as we approached 50 Hz, things took on that "serious" category where you could feel it in your body and things around the space were beginning to shake.

The painfully slow analog drop from 50 to 32Hz is a glorious memory because the entire building was at full attention without a clue what was happening!!!  : )


Oh it gets better...  From 32Hz to 22Hz is where the action is and this is where the entire place began to go into panic mode not sure what the hell was happening but ash trays on all of the tables in the surrounding dining rooms begin to slide around on the tables like air hockey pucks.

22Hz was devastating.  Memorable.  We let it set there for about 30 seconds.  Then we turned off the amp, unhooked everything and wheeled the cabinet right out of the club into the truck and left.  The owner didn't know what just happened.  

After about a day, we were contracted to fix the sound system, which we did.  In fact we put the same cabinet with the same 12 inch driver in it to replace the 4 -18 inch subs original in the place.  It was a science experiment to see how long the $45 12 inch woofer from Eli-Whitney would last under the severe stress of deaf morons night after night...  Surprisingly it lasted 90 days!!!!!  Then the call came.  AHHHHHH.  we have no BASSSSS!!!!  

We went down there and witnessed no doubt one of the most rare things you would ever see in audio, Barr none.  Believe it or not, when we removed the cube from the cabinet, the 12 inch driver's cone was shredded into powder.  The biggest piece we could find was about 6mm in size.  We were all dazed and confused at what could have possibly done this!

It was extreme pressure, a bandpass with a Q of probably about 3!!!  Nevertheless, we fitted the cabinet with a more suitable 15 inch driver in the normal configuration and installed some better amplification and that ran for well over 10 years and had a reputation for the place to go if you liked to dance...

I can only imagine how much richer and better it would have been with a ZROCK2 back then!  

There is no one who owns a ZROCK2 who leaves it in bypass mode for more than an hour or two. It just enhances the sound so beautifully that Lon is not the only one who has elected to purchase a second unit with the anniversary mods rather than have their existing one updated even though it only takes a couple of weeks.  

Think about that, the sound improvement is so great that someone would by another one just to keep from being without one for two weeks.  I have to say to that I understand, because it would be like going for two weeks without music!

Steve

 The timing of that post couldn’t have been better, my ZROCK2 with 25th mods is in QC right now, can’t wait to get that thing into my system, I’m imagining it is going to have a profound impact on my entire room. My hope is it somehow makes it to me for Christmas, but I’m not sure even Santa can pull that one off! It’s a catch 22 for me because as soon as I get it in the system for a few days, off goes the MkIV for it’s cap and 25th upgrades,it all makes for some...HAPPY HOLIDAYS...to all...🥗😊🥗

Best,
Scott

Yes, ZSTAGE s listed on the 25th Anniversary price list Steve posted.

HK

While I plan on sending in my ZSTAGE for the 25th upgrade...I would first like to hear feedback with owners of this unit with the tube and 25th anniversary mod.

Maybe it’s worth selling my pre 2019 ZStsage and repurchasing it new with tube regulation and 25th anniversary mod.  

Cool Lon, I do not blame you for going right down the line of your Decware gear to be 25th'd!

I'm so pleased. Steve maintained what the ZMA puts forth to my ear/brain.....the ZMA has true enhancement.

I liken it to a movie I recently watched: A Simple Favor.
It was shot on the new Panavision’s DXL2 8K camera ....then super sampled, etc, etc......pseudo sampled....won't get into the samantic's.
https://dxl.panavision.com/
My point being, I did not know this before seeing the movie from DVD on my 4k capable Sony Bravia XBR Television. I not only enjoyed the movie....but I'm looking over at Sue saying: "This is not only beautifully shot....the resolution is STUNNING!" Not watching in Blu-ray mind you too! ....and certainly not accessing 4k either.

My ZMA came back with not only the beautiful picture I had to my ears but over all still balanced from top to bottom with more resolution (like the new DXL Pany').....but not hitting you over the head with it ....but truly balanced/saturated/fast.........STUNNING.  So pleased.

So last night I was listening to some albums that people online suggested were their top 20 of 2018 - most of it is independent, small label, just simply *not* stuff you hear on the radio.  Music was FLAC, streamed via my Tiny Form Factor audio PC via Roon, over network to my DirectStream DAC to my 25th Anniversary modded ZMA.

I've been burning it in, trying to get some hours on the amp after the upgrade. When I first got it home after the update, the bass was amazing, but everything else was "good". Lot's of added detail and a bit of speed, but it didn't sound like my ZMA.  Last night, I'm cooking dinner sampling these new albums, and I'm like DAMN this album sounds great! It wasn't even really my style of music (sort of a Rasta, Hip-hop, R&B fusion with a great beat), but I kept getting distracted by the music and was afraid I'd burn my dinner! LOL

So I sat down with my food, opened up my laptop and clicked through a few of the other albums, and they all sounded amazing! Then it hit me...I must have reached that bloom moment where them amp settles into itself and everything is starting to level out. I didn't really have time for a dedicated listen, going through all my normal demo tunes, so I went back to that first album and heard the harmonics I had been missing, that *something* that made me fall for the ZMA at the Decfest 5 years ago.

I'm really looking forward to this weekend when I can sit down and really do some critical listening - I'll run through my normal demo tunes and see if I can better define what I'm hearing, and how the 25th mod compares to my memory of the ZMA. Hopefully I can be less nebulous than "harmonics I was missing", whatever that means. LOL

Nice LR. Glad you hit that magical transition point of the burn in process. Enjoy the rest of the ride.

HK

Quote:


Got it, and I totally get that - it makes sense when you have that option. Pretty much tuning for smoothness.

I'm trying to listen to more things, and see what other people's favorites are to explore new genre or discover new bands. I've found some real gems that way, though I admit there are times where I stop and scowl at the system like "really...that's someone's favorite album of 2018??".

Like Steve does, I tend to do a bunch of my listening around the corner from my system while doing other things. You know it's good when you keep perking up, or find yourself wandering up between the speakers for a better listen and you don't even remember entering the room. That's why I was afraid I'd burn my dinner! LOL

I'm very happy with the ZMA now - I don't feel like it's struggling to keep up with my little modded Zen - in fact, after last night I think it may have bumped it a little bit (mine not being a full blow 25th Anniversary build).  Maybe I need to pick up some hermetic resistors and stuffs.

Jeff, your description of your Red Caps make me think they were run down.  I had/have several seconds (maybe 5 to 10?) of sound when I powered down my ZMA both with the original reds and the new big caps.  Always a couple seconds before the meters start to drop.

I remember you posting about that LR. I Was doing it recently into my P3 with stock, XLO, Pangea and PK-10 PALLADIAN. my big reds smile and say take your time the mojo juice ain't dyin' out of these Caps. Most impressive.

LOL, I see someone snapped up two of them already!

That price is good, too. I saw it selling for more (but out of stock) elsewhere last night. I was also checking out the other Nichicon series to see if there might be an alternative.

The NX series is the one that Steve likes, it appears to be a long life industrial cap. The QR series is slightly smaller, and has a typical 5000 hour lifespan, but is a fast charge/discharge rate and I was seeing it in stock at several places in the 450v flavor.

I also saw that TDK has some similar caps coming out this year that are low ESR with similar specs to the Nichicon lines. I didn't find out where they are made though - I would typically go for Japanese over Chinese made caps myself.

Stone,
Yes, those are the large caps that I ended up selecting.  Couldn’t be more please with their performance in my ZMA and the ESR/ESL are the best I could find based on my research.  BonnyA also has those caps, which are 4 Pole.  

I got mine from HiFi Collective in the UK.  They ship fast and cheap, believe it or not.

I don't know what all Steve has tested, but the NX are the only ones he "blessed" so far.

You *need* at least 450v I would think. I wouldn't go lower. Unless you like the sound and flavor of a capacitor blowing up and venting it's juice into your livingspace.

I have a feeling Steve goes with the 20,000 hour ones because they are the most like the original Mallory Red, which are long life industrial caps - I think he said for a Nuclear Power Plant or something like that. IMHO, they have more density, and I think that contributes to their longer life and holding power. I think the higher the density, the ESR can suffer a little though (depending on chemistry and design of course).

Arrow has some Kemet brand with specs very similar to the NX, and supposedly lower ESR, but I don't know if Steve has tested them. They are also $40 cheaper! Then there are other Nichicon variants, but none of them are Long Life - but are faster charge/discharge, high ripple for rectifier use. And as I mentioned TDK has some coming out that they intend to surpass the Nichicon on specs - on paper they look pretty good.

This is a far cry different than when I looked six months ago. I was seeing empty shelves and fewer options. I think we're looking at big caps at the right time! I guess it helps that solar seems to be doing well, and some of these monster caps are used in solar inverters. (shrug) Anyways, we have options. I'm willing to try another brand, I just don't have the funds right now.

Thanks LR!

Yes, you did mention these Kemets and low impedance/Low ESR. Thanks for that Link.

Something to ponder and these look good to go.

From my work in Bloomington I could run out to get these on Monday.
However, I don't want to void my warranty. These caps are something I can do. Steve has not tested these either, like you said.

I can happily live with the Red Malory's for awhile longer and see how things shake down. I wish Steve had the Nich's when my ZMA was there/it would have been done. I don't want to spend another $180 in shipping, just for these Caps I can do here with confidence.
Plus, my blood pressure can't take it when I pack my ZMA in its Pelican Case and hand it to the shipping Nazi's.

I read you on all counts, LR.
So, I know you won't be surprised if the Kemet 500 VDC 3300uF Low ESR, are in and seasoning come mid April or May.

Not mucking up what is blooming and I'm so enjoying right now though, either.

Having said what I said.....let's not forget the Zen Master's genius on these mod's: Bypass Caps, Glass Resistor's & output tube Screen grid Resistor's. As I listen with Joy! Worth every penny + shipping. Not kissing arse.... Just the facts Jack.
I wouldn't mind Steve's opinion on the Kemet's in question?
See reply#77, for complete Link.

SnowMass I think was helping out there too Eric, but yes, these Modded amps really are "alive"--it's as if there is no real lag between the note playback at all, it's as if if just hits your ear at the same time as the speaker, that's sort of how it seems to me.

I was just listening to this cd:




At one moment the whole group, singer and backing trio, all just came out of a gentle groove into a moment of high energy drive and that never sounded more "real"--more as if a live presentation--in any system before. 3 watts seeming to present a concert stage with no restriction or constriction, and a murmur to a roar with no limitation. . . . (something I find these small tubes excel at). These 25th Anniversary modded amps are very special--I'm sure that holds down the line and I can't wait to hear what they do for the Taboo Mk IV.

Yours and Larry's ZMA are still "babies" in the terms of seasoning in. I think you'll find they reach several more plateaux before they attain a near god-like status.

Quote:


Damnit, I meant to include that in my description, but I was so excited I forgot. Thanks for the reminder Lon. Yeah, Snowmass definitely had something to do with that - also dead quiet and zero to 60 improvement.

QUESTION FROM the Decware Fans WEB PAGE:

Steve, when will the anniversary mods for the Rachel and ZP3 be ready?

Hi Adam!  I have my TT boxed up and will ship it to KAB tomorrow to let them work their magic on it.

Also, I’m calling Sarah tomorrow to set up shipping my ZP3 in for the mods. I got mine used, and it came with the standard caps. While I’m letting them do the 25th mods, should I have the standard cap changed over to the beeswax cap?

Yep. Having all the mods done. Will Kevin put the tube on the inside of the tonearm as part of the rewiring, or should I call him about that?

I got the Isonoes last week😊.  I’ll call Kevin tomorrow and make sure about the tube. You’d think as much trouble as it was to get on the outside, that would have been the first thing I asked him about

I was just shutting my system down last down last night right about when you posted this. I can attest to your evaluations of the Torri’s elevation in all aspects of the amp. As everything new and modified for 25th Anniversary Mods and upgrades settles in, I now know I have no reason to move myself into a ZMA because of my room size. That upgrade would have cost me dearly, although I’m sure I be happy with it, I feel absolutely no need now to even dream of it. My Torri MKIV now just continues to blow me away, it has unrelenting reserve power, it just doesn’t quit, the sound is so different than before. The mods and upgrades truly are a great value for the money, I am amazed every time I hear the system and the amazing thing is, it just keeps getting better and better.
My ZLC is on the brown truck, so I can’t wait to get that worked into the system. I know it is going to make a substantial addition as my dedicated feed still picks up the furnace fan, the dishwasher, the kitchen lights, hell, I think my clock in the bedroom is mucking no things up AC wise!
Can’t thank you enough Steve for your perseverance on this amp, I am a lucky guy to own one.  


Best,
Scott

Yes, it's listed on the price sheet Steve posted some months back.

First post of this thread on page 1.