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DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables (Read 14384 times)
Lon
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #50 - 07/31/18 at 16:19:42
 
But gold doesn't really oxidize. . . that's why the aliens came here in the past to make humans and have humans mine it for them, don't you know! Smiley
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BadWolf
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #51 - 08/02/18 at 17:14:41
 
LR thatíd be great! Iím really looking forward to comparing what Iíve made to the Zen Styx.

For now Iíve settled on using the cables with my Torii MKIV and Tang Band speakers and am still very happy with them. I tried them with a Mini Torii and MTM ďEl CaminosĒ in a better room. The difference was much harder to hear which really surprised me, especially as so much of the improvement seems to be in the highs, and the El Caminos can go higher than the Tang Bands. I wonder if some of the gains from the cables were lost in the crossovers, or maybe the room being so much more absorbent had something to do with it. I suppose the Tang Band naturally boosting the highs a bit might make the difference more obvious as well.

I have some plans to continue this ribbon cable theme onto some more projects when I get a chance. Iíd like to eliminate the weak link thatís inside the speaker cabinet by replacing the normal copper wire with silver ribbon. Although I donít plan to modify the El Caminos. I also thought it would be interesting to make two pairs of speaker cables from a single 10 ounce bar of silver. These would be half the width of the ones I have already made, and would be equivalent to between 12 and 14 gauge.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #52 - 08/06/18 at 20:06:38
 

For such a short distance, 12 or 14 AWG is plenty fine!

At least you can get to the crossover on the El Camino. I'm still grumbling that I can't even find the crossover on my MG-944.   Tongue

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will
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #53 - 08/07/18 at 01:30:58
 
Badwolf. With my Toriis, when changing speaker cable gauge (within a sort of normal range) there is a shift in the balance and power of the presentation. With relatively neutral wires, most noticeable here is bass power, the mids and highs being more or less focussed too, but less obvious. I guess bass waves being tricky in most rooms present a narrower balance for the best sound.

Different wires sound pretty different to me too, but with a given wire, smaller gauge here shifts the balance toward less intensity and bass, and bigger gauge, more, eventually saturating bass. At some point it goes from tighter and big, toward thickness and muddled. So if your bass needs leaning/tightening, or to be less dominant in the overall balance, a smaller gauge silver ribbon might well help. I wonder if this may be part of the difficulty in hearing the difference in your mini/camino system. If the bass dominates in the balance too much, it could be masking mids and highs.

The last time I made speaker cables I ended up using 4 different wire types to get the sound I wanted. I was trying NOS WE 16 gauge stranded/tinned copper. Trying just one 16 gauge WE wire shifted the system/room balance I had way toward lean, though it had a seductive upper mid quality. Adding another WE per connection, bass came up, but also the WE upper mid sweetness began to sizzle. 3 WE wires made the bass pretty good, but the mids even more focussed, sounding hard and unnatural.

Keeping the overall gauge close, I changed one WE wire at a time. 1st was a†solid/soft silver, and the 2nd, solid copper (both in oversized teflon). Both changes were quite obvious and the sound became really good with one WE balanced with the silver and copper.

May be a blessing in disguise that the ribbon, a very transparent and revealing cable conceptually, and as evidenced in your other system, was hard to hear in Mini/Camino system. Could well be some other issue like absorption as you suggest, but even though crossovers can be heard, I would think the Caminos should have plenty of innate clarity for your silver ribbon to show pretty clearly compared to many cables. Makes me guess gauge or something else might be bigger player(s)???

LR,

My 944s were made with only a cap going to the tweeter, no inductor. The cap was mounted on the inside of the binding post cover. I think Bob started using coils at some point. If yours have inductors, not sure where Bob would put it, but when I tried the ones he sent me, I mounted them by pulling the front driver...if I recall correctly, the bottom one, in front of the binding post cover giving wire access (???). The speakers were more controlled sounding with the inductor if I recall, but I seemed to prefer the speed and punch I was used to without. Cap changes were fun.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #54 - 08/07/18 at 15:46:05
 
Quote:
My 944s were made with only a cap going to the tweeter, no inductor. The cap was mounted on the inside of the binding post cover. I think Bob started using coils at some point. If yours have inductors, not sure where Bob would put it, but when I tried the ones he sent me, I mounted them by pulling the front driver...if I recall correctly, the bottom one, in front of the binding post cover giving wire access (???). The speakers were more controlled sounding with the inductor if I recall, but I seemed to prefer the speed and punch I was used to without. Cap changes were fun.


I have one of, if not *the* last MG-944 that was supposed to be for Bob himself. It has a proper crossover in it so it's not as efficient as the cap only earlier version...and he buried the crossover inside the cabinet as the side panel was glued on I think...so without cutting it open, I just can't see it.  :P   I really wanted to try cap only and see how mine sounds, but got frustrated and have just been enjoying them as they are for the past 5 years.  ;D
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will
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #55 - 08/07/18 at 16:59:00
 
Hey Raven,

I guess if you wanted to experiment you could figure out a good way to run new wires. Maybe disconnect the current wires at the binding post interior and likewise at the drivers, leaving them available to re-hook if you want? Then install a cap before new wires going to the tweeter, and run new wires direct to the mid-bass drivers? The cap mounted on, or near the back of the binding post cover is a handy place for experimenting with different caps if that seems interesting. You could even put in your own coil setup in a more easy to access place to experiment with if something in between what Bob decided on and no coil seemed advantageous to your sound.
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Palomino
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #56 - 08/10/18 at 21:12:49
 
Great project BadWolf.  Would love to hear them!
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BadWolf
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #57 - 08/14/18 at 19:28:12
 
LR thatís good to know I can get to the crossovers on the El Caminos. I have never looked. Although I still doubt Iíll do anything to them being one of a kind and that Iím very happy with them. Like Will said it very well could be something else making the difference harder to tell. I donít have a listening room good enough to get really serious about figuring the differences out yet, but plans have been made to gut the bedroom and turn it into a dedicated listening space. In the meantime weíll be making an effort to improve the current space some too by adding some diffusers and absorption.

Thank you for your comments Will. You mention a few things Iíve never thought about.

Palomino youíre always welcome to stop by, just let me know.
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Palomino
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #58 - 08/14/18 at 21:43:44
 
Would they be too fragile to bring to the Sept. DAC comparo?

We need to look for a date that works for the DAC off.  I'd like to do it before Decfest if possible.
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BadWolf
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #59 - 08/14/18 at 23:12:46
 
Theyíre not particularly fragile so moving them around isnít an issue. However if we are using the OTL there is an issue, they donít actually fit on the OTL because it has a shroud on two of its binding posts. I knew this when I made them, I just never came up with a satisfactory solution. I figured Iíd either make a silver adapter of some sort, or an additional set of cables that would fit such as the smaller ones Iíve mentioned.

It may actually be just as well because comparing at least three DACs will probably be enough to do without throwing cable comparisons into the mix. I may bring them to Decfest if people are interested.
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ossidian
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #60 - 11/27/18 at 21:37:04
 
Simply amazing concept. I am tossing my zip cord and building a pair as you kindly demonstrated. Thanks BadWolf!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #61 - 11/29/18 at 15:45:45
 

I'm looking forward to the Gold Pressed Latinum version of these speaker wires.


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BadWolf
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #62 - 03/04/20 at 21:21:06
 
I finally got around to making that second set I mentioned, and this time I made a video of the process!

https://youtu.be/0OEVTaSCHk4
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Archie
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #63 - 03/04/20 at 23:20:13
 
Loved your video. †I'm not subscribed to youtube or I'd have given a thumbs up!

Next time, put some commentary in it. † Smiley † †It's still amazing to me that the width doesn't change with all of the rolling. †I assume you were heating it to take the hardness out of it. †Why the quenching? †I didn't see you quench as the ribbon got thinner though.
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BadWolf
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Re: DIY Pure Silver Ribbon Speaker Cables
Reply #64 - 03/05/20 at 00:43:43
 
Thanks Archie!

When I was learning metalworking I made the mistake of thinking rolling would make the metal wider as well as longer. This resulted me in ending up with a much narrower piece of metal than I needed to finish my project, which in turn made finishing the project far more difficult than it needed to be. So I havenít made that mistake again. It makes since though, there is nothing in rolling that is pushing the metal sideways. That project was the first time I rolled out a 10oz silver bar actually, I made a silver flask out of it.

Correct, the heating anneals the metal softening it. Every time Iíd heat the metal Iíd also quench it even though it became less obvious with the big bucket. Intrigued by your question of why the quench I did a quick bit of research, as otherwise my answer would be thatís just how I learned to do it. So with fine silver it seems either air cooling or quenching in water give about the same result. Air cooling would take longer, but also save me the hassle of having to dry the metal before working it. Iíll have to give that a try sometime. Thanks for the question.
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