Forums - Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
03/30/15 at 03:07:57

My Acoustic Zen Adagio's have potential. Right now they are well burned in but veiled. Any suggestions for new caps and rebuild of the crossovers. I am wondering if I could try first running them full range with a cap attenuating the tweeter. I run my Parker 95 Crusaders in this manner. How are the Decware 944 Towers MTM's done?

I know these Speakers could give up the goods..... .

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #1 - 03/30/15 at 15:49:46

Many have upgraded the crossover's on the Adagio to good effect. Many sell them, because the stock x-over's are garbage! Very veiled still after long burn in. I could just dump them. However, I am selling some bookshelf Speakers an my old Gen Genre II's today at Midwest Spkr. I am inquiring about new x-overs, crossover points, an Clarity and/or Mundorf caps with Erse foil inductors seems to be the way to go on these.

So, these have become my new project! Midwest will do the work...I can't solder. The Adagio's have a wonderful transmission line and great driver's. I think it will be worth the effort! Other accounts of the upgrades ability to produce clarity can't be rubbish.

Meanwhile, my Vintage Polk SDA1's in stereo are kickin' it well. I have a pair of ERRx coming by the end of April too! I look forward to placing them all over the Room-Radial's baby....~Radial's.

Then the Adagio's after rebuild...........and burn in! Got's to have toys....an more than one pair of Speaker's to rotate through the Listening Room!

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/CCa/7308 for input tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 in A12 an B12 inputs)
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable (alt in sometimes)
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (91db)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (w/NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

*****Decware ERRx Speaker's coming in 3 to 4 weeks!********

**Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modded/Full Range with Caps on Tweets/10 or 12k cross**....should have in a week-finished

*****UFO MOD to my Decware Super Zen CKC Pending

(Note: NOS Svetlana SV83's sound best in an Original SE84CS/voiced for them....SZ CKC/voiced best-used with 6P15P-EV's)

*****Pending: 6C33C Decware Mono-blocks
(Note: ZMA not for sale = Masterpiece)
*****Pending: Steve's new Preamp to be released approx. in October

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #2 - 03/30/15 at 20:56:26

To heck with a conventional redo x-over's for my Adagio's. I'm having a 1st order done with caps. X-over at 5 to 10kHz on up for the tweeter's an full range on the woofer's. When they sweep it....they will figure out between the 5 an 10. This should be interesting.

I'm Decware MG944'in them! They go under the knife tomorrow!

Cool, the MG944's are crossed over at 12k.
https://www.decware.com/zreview126.htm

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #3 - 03/31/15 at 21:42:15 The Adagio's are in the Shop getting Mundorf mcap supremes. Joe will work his magic. Probably crossed somewhere between 5 an 8K. I'm calling it the MG944/ERRx mod Supreme! Veiled no more I tell ya!
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #4 - 04/08/15 at 14:42:11

For any lurker's looking to get Adagio's/popping in here from a search/browser. USED pairs can be had for a fair price. I bought mine new. Nice, like a new car....but, I had to go Rogue on them because the x-over's are inferior.

Okay, just off the phone with Joe: After, sweeping and listening to the original cross, he is crossing them over at 4.5 kHz. Up from the 3kHz. The woofers can handle up to 5k. I trust his ear going to the 4.5 vs only 3.7 up from the 3.

Says, they are going to blow my mind with my ZMA!

Sweet! X-over's are: Mundorf Mcap Supremes.
...of course, I have my modded Vintage Polk SDA 1 in stereo & Decware ERRx coming. Got to have some Radial action too!

I look forward to inspecting the previous x-over's that were in the Adagio's....killing them.

$180 for the Upgrade, including parts an labor/both Speakers!

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/CCa/7308 for input tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 in A12 an B12 inputs)
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (91db)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

*****Sending my SE84CS in for the UFO MOD

*****Decware ERRx Speaker's coming in 3 to 4 weeks!

*****Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modded/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-on Tweets/4.5 cross.....should have in a week-finished

Pending: Decware Preamplifier, October 2015
Pending: ZP3

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #5 - 04/10/15 at 17:21:55 My Custom Adagio's are done! I pick them up today and will have them in tonight. Party on Wayne......party on Garth.
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

deucekazoo Seasoned Member Posts: 461	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #6 - 04/10/15 at 18:36:26 We need pictures, especially of the new x-over.
Back to top	IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #7 - 04/10/15 at 22:08:54

PM me your number and I will send you pic's:
-of the incredible crap that came out of these Speakers (x-over's)
-and the Mundorf Mcap Supremes that went in.

Acoustic Zen Adagio's:
great fit and finish = yes
great Transmission Line design = YES!
quality underhung made in Germany woofers = yes
quality tweeters made in house in CA, by Mr. Lee = yes
X-over's? AH.....no!
Even Mr. Lee stated in a thread....they could use an upgrade.

I have them running full range on the woofers. Crossed at 4.5 kHz with the Mundorf's.

SOUND? I've had them hooked up for an hour now. Whahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo! .....and the Caps are new obviously. Musical Musical MUsiiiiiiiicalllllllllllllllllllll!

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 23520	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #8 - 04/10/15 at 22:22:10 Good news. Those caps are going to take a WHILE to really bloom, so good sound now is a great sign! Nice move.
Back to top	HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1 IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #9 - 04/11/15 at 17:31:05

You bet Lon. I have Bob sending my ERRx's with Mundorf Mcap Supremes too. Have a great weekend.

I'm now off to take pictures of my daughter for the grand March/Prom. Another one of my babies is all grown up pretty much. She starts college at St. Thomas University in the Fall. Beautiful 65 degree sunny day as well. We deserve it.

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #10 - 08/11/15 at 17:51:16

Four months in on my Mod (done by Midwest Speaker Repair), to my Adagio's. These Mundorf Mcap Supremes have really bloomed. I am so pleased.

I almost sold these Speakers-prior to me looking over at my Parker Crusader's rear external Caps and wiring! The light bulb went off..."I need to do that to the Adagio's". However though, find the ideal x-over point for the tweeter's and driver's in the Adagio's.

The two Caps and labor, cost me $177.85.
I'm going to mount the x-over's that came out of the Adagio's on my wall! (....if interested: PM me your number and I will text you a pic of the receipt of the work I had done and the x-over's that came out).

My point: Consider a pair used or haggle on a pair new (like I did) and Mod them (read the whole thread above). You will not be disappointed.

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)

AURALiC Vega D/A processor.....coming!

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***

Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

Dave1210

Seasoned Member

Posts: 959

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #11 - 08/12/15 at 03:30:55

Stone...it's awesome that these speakers worked out for you. I have never heard the Adagio's in person, but the overall design seems very similar to the 944's, which I think are an awesome match with the ZMA.

The transmission line is special and I think an underutilized design (probably because it is more complicated than building a ported box). I feel like I can hear "ported" bass from a mile away, and it doesn't resonate with me. I can't recall the last time I heard a ported speaker I really liked. Other speaker standouts for me are Volti, Magico, Pure Audio Project, Scaena, Acoustic Zen (all non-ported designs).

Also, I have always liked ribbon microphones for capturing detail and nuance when recording instruments. I guess I like ribbons in speakers too. I have always liked Magnepan speakers (well, many of their attributes anyway).

No one said you couldn't buy a set of speakers and tear the crossovers out. Just like no one said you couldn't buy a car, tear out the lame V6, drop in a V8 (and cut an exhaust pipe back).

Sleepers are more fun anyway...and this forum knows that all too well!

Enjoy the music!

Back to top

IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #12 - 08/12/15 at 14:34:17

Absolutely love the transmission line in the Adagio's. The 944's are good/I've heard them a couple times at Decfest. The Adagio's dwarf the 944's in sound and magnetude. They should and do at 48 inches tall and 78 pounds each~floor spiked beauties.

Same here, I hear a ported design or horn, from a mile away. The quality integration of the Adagio's with the MTM punches into 7 to 10k range. They are more impressive now, with my MOD,...you get to hear what the Ribbon Tweeter can really do with these woofers~all custom.
{2 1⁄2” under-hung (short voice coil /long magnetic gap) voice coil linear motor system, shielded 7oz Neodymium magnet.
Tweeter: 1 5/8” Round Ribbon, shielded 3.5 oz high flux energy and high temperature}

I enjoy Maggies too. I worked for them before going to college.....many years ago. I should pop in and say hello. It has been awhile. Magnepan is about 8 miles from my house. I need to go hear the new .7's, knowing the ZMA will drive them within reason.

.7's will be very easy to move around too!
After my Auralic Vega settles in for a month or two. .7's are on my radar. Everyone should have a pair of Maggies! Set up properly, and at the right volume....magic...and offers another point of reference.

http://www.audiolab.com/Magnepan_7_Floor_Standing_Quasi_ribbon_Speakers_p/magmg....

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

Dave1210

Seasoned Member

Posts: 959

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #13 - 08/12/15 at 16:55:06

Stone...I wonder if you are thinking about the 945's vs. the 944's. See specs for the 944's below:

94 dB with 1 watt at 1 meter
28Hz ~ 22kHz
4 ohm nominal impedance
Driver compliment - MTM
Crossover - none on woofers / 6dB on tweeters
Size 10" wide, 16" deep, 42" high
Solid 1.5" thick cherry baffle
75 lbs ea.

Back to top

IP Logged

stone_of_tone

Seasoned Member

Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #14 - 08/12/15 at 19:05:41

I'm explicitly referring to the 944's. I make reference to them throughout this thread. Reply #2, with Link. Crossed over way to high as well. 12k is nuts/to much distortion in the woofer's.

You're not implying that the 944 is in the league of my modified Adagio's - that would be delusional. As I stated: I heard the 944's in 2005 and 2008. Those OEM driver's and the diminutive box at 42" are no match for the power and weight, detail with nuance and shading - that I'm getting from my Adagio's. I would own a pair (944) if they could compete. The 944's don't weigh 75lbs. each either. ;D Grin

If their even close-that is beside the point.

Furthermore, the very diminutive inefficient JanZens are no match for the Modified Adagio either. I would have bought a pair before the price increase. But, you need a Sub with them - as you know.

Back to top

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3

IP Logged

Dave1210 Seasoned Member Posts: 959	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #15 - 08/12/15 at 19:25:45 Stone…I wasn’t implying anything, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not delusional. :o
Back to top	IP Logged

stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #16 - 08/13/15 at 14:24:18 Dave, I'm the one that is delusional. I just read my last post..... . I did NOT mean to be such an arse. My bad. Live an learn on my part. All the Speakers in play, are very good and it is what you get out of them-that counts. We know how to get musical involvement out of them.......... .
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

Dave1210

Seasoned Member

Posts: 959

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #17 - 08/14/15 at 03:19:58

Stone, I didn't take any offense. I didn't read the entire post, but it seemed to me you were talking about a speaker that was much smaller than the 944's based on your description (dwarf, 78 lbs).

I have no doubt the Adagios are great speakers. I have heard the Crescendos on multiple occasions and they are fantastic. I spoke with Robert on the phone about the differences between the Crescendos/Adagios, and he would only recommend the Crescendos if you had a large room (25 ft long min) and could get the speakers 7 ft from the front wall.

Otherwise, it's Adagios all the way. I'm not sure how much better, if at all, the crossover is in the Crescendos (vs. Adagios), but they are at a very different price point. Anyway, sounds like you are very happy with the speakers/mod, so Enjoy!

Back to top

IP Logged

Wiaudiophile

Verified Member

Posts: 2

Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils
Reply #18 - 02/15/19 at 21:17:15

I bought a pair of Adagio a couple months ago and of course, I want to get the maximum out of them. I see that they have the potential and that they can play better. I read that you have successfully solved the x-cross on Adagio. stone_of_tone I would like if you can send me photos on my email how looks like your new crossovers and if you have some instructions.

Back to top

IP Logged

Steve Deckert Administrator If the 1st watt sucks why continue? Posts: 6246	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #19 - 02/16/19 at 06:48:04 Hi Wiaudiophile, Welcome to the forum! Great speakers from Stone of Tones descriptions. What are you pairing the speakers with? Steve
Back to top	IP Logged

Wiaudiophile Verified Member Posts: 2	Re: Acoustic Zen Adagio~Help with Caps an Coils Reply #20 - 02/16/19 at 23:07:03 Thank you Steve! I have VPI 299D integrated amplifier.
Back to top	IP Logged