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New DECWARE Folded Horn (Read 41061 times)
Steve Deckert
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New DECWARE Folded Horn
04/15/23 at 17:06:54
 

Lii Song has sent me their new flagship drivers, the PT-10's which are quite the animals...  it shows a company who's passion for exceptionalism is over and above.

They asked if I would design an enclosure for these drivers. When I received the drivers I had no idea what to expect. I measured the Thiel Small Parameters and was stunned to find the impedance at resonance at 500 ohms. It actually created a 180 degree phase shift at that frequency of 30 Hz. This got me a bit panicky. I spent the rest of the evening making a transformer to largely eliminate the phase shift just in case it proves to be a problem and how couldn't it, right?



Well, we still don't know the answers to any of this, it is too soon.  I just want an ace in my pocket to delete the phase shift just in case I need it. I then moved on to model the perfect box based on the Thiel Small parameters I had measured.  This was depressing because nothing was really modeling correctly.  The driver wanted to roll of at 300 Hz in most box types.  With some trickery it can go flat to 100 Hz, and if really stretched you might get it to hit 60Hz.  Or so I was being told by the computer models...




Finally I got frustrated and just went and got a sealed box of around 3 cubic feet and shoved one of the drivers over the hole since it was too big to fit a normal 10 inch cut out.  I just needed to see if this thing was going to make any bass...  Sure as shit it did.  Not a lot but I could hear the potential and an uncanny speed. It was special despite being only from the back side of the cone. 



This is when I knew I was going forward.  The Audio Gods told me it's not modeling well because it wants a real horn.  I got right on it.   When I finished the plans about 4 weeks later I started to build a pair.  This is when I found out my plans would have made my phone ring and clogged up my email...  so time to make some revisions.




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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #1 - 04/15/23 at 17:08:41
 



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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #2 - 04/15/23 at 17:11:24
 


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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #3 - 04/15/23 at 17:26:02
 




I am still working on the plans for these horns. Of course I thought they were done when I started to actually build the cabinets and found out I wasn't really even close to done.

So far I have 9 pages and 3 revisions done after more than 5 weeks. It's going to take at least one or two more to detail how to treat the inside surfaces.  Some areas will have felt, some will have foam, some will have diffusers. I have to wait until I actually do it, to know where everything will go. The process is simple, stick your head inside the box and chant. When you like the sound inside the box you will also like the sound outside the box.

It is a 1/4 wave horn at 29.5 Hz, meaning it is a 1/2 wave at 60 and a full wave at 120Hz. I can make the building shake with my voice inside the box.

Once these are in service in the listening room, I will make a web page for them and add them to our product line. We will sell the plans from the web page.

Steve


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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #4 - 04/15/23 at 17:44:28
 
ohhhh yeah- a spark of excitement just ran through my veins. Looking good and can't wait to see the final results. I will pace an order as soon they are available. Thank you for posting!
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #5 - 04/15/23 at 18:13:21
 
More horns? Oh no. I was getting to like the DNA2 with Scan Speak drivers!
These do look quite a bit larger Steve.
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #6 - 04/15/23 at 18:40:12
 
I think I’m gonna need to pick up a few more jigsaw blades.

If these can produce something similar to the bass you get from those corner cabinets (imperial?) then this is an exciting build.
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #7 - 04/16/23 at 10:39:00
 
Quote:
It is a 1/4 wave horn at 29.5 Hz, meaning it is a 1/2 wave at 60 and a full wave at 120Hz. I can make the building shake with my voice inside the box.


The efficiency of the P10s along with the wavelength of the horn might be problematic with amps prone to hum. Sarah might not be a good match for this enclosure and driver?

Interesting the flair placed on the mouth bracing. I use to do the chants in enclosures when being built. That made me a little apprehensive when the boss came walking in doing such on my free time at work Huh He give me one of those glaring looks and I say "what" with a sholder shrug Grin

When you get this together, I am going to make an appointment for a listening session and drop off the ZP3 for tape mods.

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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #8 - 04/17/23 at 00:28:04
 
I almost wish I'd waited now as I'm sure Steve's backloaded horms will sound absolutely spectacular.... Then again, my MLTL Platinum-10 speakers should sound fantastic also. I'm rather hoping it's pretty hard to get a Platinum-10 based speaker wrong.   Smiley

I'll take delivery of mine this coming Sunday   Grin

Will you be looking to get a pair of your PT-10 BLH into the hands of Stereophile magazing Steve? I'd really love to read up on that   Cool
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #9 - 04/28/23 at 02:24:08
 
OK Matty- time to post seem pics. I saw your beautiful speakers on the WAM forum. They are gorgeous. Hopefully they are sounding as good as they look to you.
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #10 - 04/28/23 at 02:39:22
 
Drew,

They are certainly gorgeous! I saw them on Facebook.

I’ve been wondering myself, why he hasn’t posted pics on this forum yet. Prolly too busy listening 😎
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #11 - 04/28/23 at 03:11:53
 
I'm now experiencing the best sound I've ever heard in my entire life and with less than 24 hours burn in. I do not even require a subwoofer any longer. Everything is just there.   Grin

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JaVbNVAWLHptJCWt9
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #12 - 04/28/23 at 03:59:31
 
Well done
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #13 - 04/28/23 at 04:18:31
 
It's been somewhat mind altering just how good sound is through these speakers. Almost makes me wonder how it would sound if I got high like occaisonally happened in my younger days. How much would it mess with my head  ;)
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #14 - 04/28/23 at 19:40:15
 
Hi Matty,

Great looking speakers!

It will be interesting to see how these sound in open baffle.  I think I can shoehorn them into to my existing C10 baffles with just a little trimming of the baffle.  My C10s are rear mounted and the mounting area is flared.

Once I get a ship date, I will pull everything out of the existing baffles and start working on them.

If they sound promising, I'll probably build new baffles.  Of course that's what I said about my current C10 baffles and here I am four or so years ago.

As I mentioned, I have the bottom end well covered so I just need these from around 160-200Hz and up.
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #15 - 04/30/23 at 02:49:56
 
I’d say they’ll be excellent for OB use so long as you’ve woofers helping for bass.  Thankyou regarding my speakers. They’re improving daily. Smiley
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #16 - 05/01/23 at 20:35:11
 

Matty, those look great!  Interestingly they are about the same size!

The horns are nearly finished now.. just waiting for paint.  We scheduled a group listening session with Bob, Randy and several extended members of the Decware family this past weekend and all agree the project is a hit.  Actually the comments were so over the top you wouldn't believe me if I told you.  Some refused to go back in for fear of ruining their audio hobby for life.

Here is a short video of them playing in my wood shop.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uFy5O9XQ2jZD6WHd4Tna_YWTt-WAVCds/view?usp=shari...

Recommend you download it and then play it to hear the actual recording rather than use google video player that pops up which will compress it.


The plans are in revision 5 and should be available soon.

Steve

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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #17 - 05/02/23 at 00:27:39
 
This looks and sounds fantastic. Thanks for sharing Steve. Smiley

What hardware did you use to record it? I always struggle to get decent system recordings.

Cheers

Matt
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #18 - 05/02/23 at 00:34:41
 
Galaxy S9 phone.  It is what I use for 99% of all the videos on this channel.  That way the viewers have somewhat of a common frame of reference since they can record their own stereo playing the same tracks and upload it to YouTube for a direct comparison.

Steve
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #19 - 05/02/23 at 06:28:34
 
Steve,

Maybe I have missed your comments elsewhere but what are your thoughts of the just completed platinum box compared to origins, and compared to your other favorite models including your big OB’s?

Thanks in advance.
John
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Re: Lii Platinum10 drivers
Reply #20 - 05/02/23 at 21:37:09
 
It would be interesting to know how it compares with the Silver-10 based Origin speakers as a baseline as that’s arguably Lii’s best known ready made speaker.  :)
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #21 - 05/12/23 at 03:01:04
 




Everything is just glued and clamped.  There are only a couple pin nails to keep things from sliding while being clamped.


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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #22 - 05/12/23 at 03:07:55
 


The braces are curved with holes to break up the standing waves that otherwise occur between parallel surfaces.









The slotted things are diffusers, they deal with high frequencies but also stabilize bass frequencies by keeping the air pressure from sliding up or down on the rear panel.  The size diffusers carry the highest amount of energy.

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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #23 - 05/12/23 at 03:12:43
 




Installing the side diffusers.



Testing the horizontal brace location...  This was eliminated in favor of the the support that comes from the wings that will be bolted onto the sides.



The white is an alkyd high solids primer.  It penetrates deep and turns into a rock.  Takes soft MDF and makes it hard.



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #24 - 05/12/23 at 03:20:21
 


Pre-drilling the holes for the wings so I can make it hard with the white paint.  The interior panels are all sealed with two coats of clear sanding sealer.



This is the wing.




Two for each speaker.



The removable baffle is made from cabinet grade plywood.  The plans under the baffle are showing the blade angles on your table saw to cut each panel.



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #25 - 05/12/23 at 03:31:23
 
Amazing stuff Steve—thanks for sharing the build!
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #26 - 05/12/23 at 03:54:23
 


Yes, I got Bob Ziegler involved!  We spent a good hour just getting the threaded inserts aligned.  It's a heavy driver all bolted into the 12 inch baffle so it was nice to have an extra set of hands holding the bottom as it was being tipped into place.


Now here is a story about what happened with the Audio Gods...   It starts with a round pillow!



I have at least four of these in my wood shop because the wind keeps blowing them out of the grandkids treehouse into the yard where they kill circles in the grass.  I found they are great in the shop because they are soft and level and firm enough to hold projects on without scratching anything.



Inside this horn is a pie shape just below the driver that when chanted into makes a horrible droning sound, and at resonance the sound continues for a few dozen milliseconds after you stop chanting.  The first time I heard this I felt panic.  Did I just make something for the bond fire?  You can't have sound like that inside the box with a cone this thin!  Crap.

I started having visions of stuffing the box with wool, and worried that the sound might be the horn flare itself!  Dread...

The the Audio Gods showed up and made sure that when I looked around for something to shove in that cavity that the pillow would be right there.  A perfect fit, and by itself it MORE than fixed it.  I seemed miraculous at the time, and my brain wasn't even processing it fully yet.  So simple... yet a wide band linear diaphragmatic absorber was just created and I missed it.

I'm sure it bummed them out when I ordered $187 worth of 1/2 inch wool to line the inside of the box with.  Also some foam that would be slicker to put near the throat of the horn.

While Bob was there I installed the felt in one of the horns and the foam and stuck my head in the cabinet and was satisfied that it was working, but I also remember the sound with the pillow days earlier.  So the little voice suggested an A/B test.  I relayed their wishes to Bob.  We agreed and put the Pillow in one cabinet and the fancy felt/foam job in the other and then tested the cabinets with the drivers installed on music.

The 1/2 inch thick ultra dense wool was removed as it was found to distort the sound at all volumes.  By comparison it sounded garbled.  It was hard to keep your ear 6 inches away from the cone, while the pillow side was crystal clear and it was easy to stand there indefinitely at that same distance.

During the process of getting the threaded fasteners aligned I realized that it was not fun taking the drivers in and out and thought we should just add the felt to the other cabinet and skip the A/B tests, because obviously the felt would win anyway.  I thought it, but I never spoke it.  Then I realized it was father Murphy trying to trip me up using laziness and pressure to win a bet with the Audio Gods.

I'm going to admit it wasn't easy to resist but I did, and thankfully so because the sound of this speaker would have been ruined and we would have never known.

The Felt was absorbing some frequencies and not others.  As well it was deaccelerating the air slowing down the reflex and doing it differently at different frequencies.  This was causing what I would have to call 'dynamic smearing' where the timing was off.





Here you can see the pillow installed. It sets at an angle just below the 10 inch driver.  The four corners allow instantaneous air movement between the two spaces created by the pillow.  This keeps the reflex speed at max, unlike the heavy wool that was simply lining all the walls.

The fleece on top of the 3 inch foam pillow creates just the right surface for voice, way better than just bare foam.  The heavy wool now gone allowed me to place some ultra thin green crafting felt in critical places.  It won't create too much drag on the air, but will delete the sound of MDF in the midrange.



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #27 - 05/12/23 at 04:04:52
 
A wonderful story of the technical details.
Thank you, Steve!

That pillow case really threw me. I thought it was a block of wood.

Brian
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #28 - 05/12/23 at 04:06:50
 


Looking up instead of down at the pillow, we see the top of the interior chamber and the horn throat which is the slot on the left side of the image.




Since the closer we get to the slot, the faster the air flow / higher the air pressure and this is what feeds the horn flare.  We do not want to slow it down, but this is what the speaker cone sees, so we installed two pieces of thin craft foam, which is slicker than craft felt, to kill the MDF sound that would otherwise affect the midrange.  This stops before the slot.

I have to say this is a real achievement for me when it comes to interior box design / tuning.  Even the HDT wasn't this good.  By that I mean it is very satisfying to have no echo, no speed reduction and nearly perfect intelligibility inside a speaker box.  Usually the best you can hope for is a muffled sound without sharp reflections.

I know this is the most boring part of the speaker design, and if I put it in the plans most will ignore, but this is next to getting the angles right, the most important part.

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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #29 - 05/12/23 at 04:14:02
 



Painting them with 3 coats of hotrod black single-stage urethane after two coats of acrylic lacquer black primer surfacer.  That part sucked because I know what it would be like in a paint booth vs. a wood shop.  But I got through after several days.



Installing the wings...





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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #30 - 05/12/23 at 04:20:35
 



Installing binding posts



The drivers



Yes, you can have them come out the rear, but I'm a purist and the internal wire is shorter this way.  

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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #31 - 05/12/23 at 04:52:21
 




Now the real listening begins...


click to enlarge



The sound so far is what I would consider in the forbidden zone.  The speaker is accurately named.

When it gets burned in a touch more I will make videos of it.  Meanwhile I am working on the web page for it now.  It has already been licensed to Lii Song for production in world markets and we will be making it for anyone who want to drive to Decware in East Peoria IL and pick them up.  This speaker is going to be a game changer.

My lovely wife and the brains behind Decware is this speakers best advocate.  She has never gotten so excited about a speaker before despite the staggering performance of our designs going back 30 years...  So what is it?  Well, yes, she can hear.  She is still mad at me for that.  But the reason is that we just returned from AXPONA 2023 where we listened to 6 figure audio gear for two days and didn't hear anything this good.  Nothing has this combination of range coherency and speed.

We can build these in a reasonable timeframe, usually within 90 days, and the cost is still completely unknown.  My pair is the lowest priced version that we can make being painted black, but Lii Song will be making them in a piano factory from hardwoods which promises to be eye popping and expensive.


The bass from these speakers is insanely deep tight clean fast.  The speaker can just stop and hang notes leaving you breathless.   I am driving them with the SE84UFO25 being driven by the May Audio Dac and at 103dB I haven't even gotten the amps turned past half way up yet.  All day today at the shop everyone kept coming in the listening room to hear the speakers, they were a big distraction.

This leads me to my final story... because father Murphy lost the earlier bet about the pillow there had to be revenge.  So last night when I got them together in the room I had to re-arrange the entire listening room and all the electronics.  Despite the streamer being wireless, it decided not to work after being moved 20 feet and I was unable to listen to the speakers.  After hours of dicking with it, I decided to just hook up the vinyl rig that I had just torn completely down and moved.

Apparently I bumped the plinth for the tonearm and lost the adjustment, and who knows, I may have hooked up something wrong, but I got a Tom Scott record from the 1970's and the speakers sounded so bad I had to check to see if they were wired out of phase.  I sat there in disbelief at what I was hearing.  Almost no bass at all.  I forced it on myself for 2 hours I guess waiting for the joke to be over and it didn't happen so I went to bed and laid awake all night.    Thankfully, this morning I changed streamers and got everything online and the sound was glorious.

So now as I said, the real listening begins.  Two watts from a Zen Triode amp is just crushing it.  The dynamics are hard to describe.  Nothing at the AXPONA had this hit, and we are talking big big big solid states amps and equally and larger speakers.  It's not even that loud, it just sounds like it because of the dynamics and presence.  Two things that normally only come with pressure.

I'm willingly going to wreck my head because I already have the speakers and there would never be a reason to remove them.

Steve : )

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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #32 - 05/12/23 at 05:13:50
 

. Actually my heads been wrecked for a long time.  The closest I ever got to this sound was from my Acoustat Monitors.  They are full range electrostats with the "cone" area equal to eight 15 inch drivers per side with the mass of a few tweeters.  The panels are directly driven by servo charged tube amps where the plates of the high voltage tubes put 5KV directly on the panel without an interface making them unlike every other popular electrostatic speaker.  These are 20Hz to 20kHz panels that are 4 feet wide and 5 feet tall with four 5 degree facets but they were still real head vise speakers and even after weeks of placement adjustments they never sounded perfect because the amplifiers weren't good enough.  Well, not really but kinda really.  I figured some day I would build some tube amps for these electrostatics and use them again.  Now I have the speed, but also the range and the sound is way better because the amp is way better.  The dynamics are more visceral and the bass depth is more tangible, less oversized and diffused.  And I'm doing it with a single amp that is only 2 watts / channel and it gets to the same volume as the Acoustats.  Best of all the head vise effect is by comparison -- gone.  These cabinets completely disappear and I am only sitting less than 8 feet away from them.

It's hard to believe what I am hearing right now compared to this time last night...  Proof that miracles can happen because I laid awake all night thinking it would take one to get the sound I wanted and now I sit here easily able to say I've not heard better, and this is still only from a 2 watt amplifier.  I'm playing disco music, jazz, classical, vocals, electronica, trance, classic rock.  The pin point dynamics and the way everything is separated out is at a new level for me in all the things I've heard in my 50 years of hifi.

Even at normal listen levels I can feel the bass in the concrete everywhere in the building.  Also the lowest and the fastest bass I've ever heard.  It can start moving the whole building and then just stop and the building itself freezes until it is released and OK'd to finish moving.  It's freaky frikin fast bass and it moves from top to bottom with zero bloat.  There is zero mid bass bloat.  It's like listening the Zen Master Series larger baffle (model ZF15L) with an octave lower bass, and even great speed and way more neutrality.  The sound is perfectly neutral.  It energized the room in a way only large horns can.  This is even better than the full size imperial horns because it's faster and at 1/3 the width the standing waves in the room are reduced by 2/3rds and the bass is increased by the same amount.

Steve



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #33 - 05/12/23 at 05:18:47
 
Wow!
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #34 - 05/12/23 at 05:37:16
 
Steve…thanks for the detailed update on this project. Congratulations….this is one badass speaker!!  Intimidating is an understatement!!  I think I’m going to need to coax the wife to allow me to burn some vacation time to attend this years Decfest.  

At my last Decfest…I can still remember listening to Yello’s Takla Makan through the Imperials sitting in the main chair and it blew my doors off!!  I can only imagine what this song would sound like through the new Headwreckers!!  Please post some video clips soon.

Dom
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #35 - 05/12/23 at 05:59:29
 

Well it's midnight and I just listened to Sophia Hunger on this system and I'll never be the same.  Seriously I wasn't prepared for this.  Holy crap.



May as well sell all the other speakers in the room.  Even the house speakers peed themselves a little bit.



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #36 - 05/12/23 at 12:17:51
 
Maybe you will feel better this morning after some sleep Steve. We seem to share the same problem with anxiety when things are not right and/or very perplexing in our world. Valium works for me in the times of sleeplessness. Don't really like the side effects but it is better than the hopelessness feeling that develops with lack of sleep.

The Headwreckers will fit in my scheme Huh Maybe? The width is perfect but the depth might interfere with the theater sound and view. Height will tower impressively in the Charoit for sure.

Nice work!

John



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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #37 - 05/12/23 at 13:40:22
 
Your first post here mentions the phase inversion at 30hz. Guess this will play well with amps that have a tendency to hum? No transformer needed?
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #38 - 05/12/23 at 15:53:37
 
Are you going to sell them with the pillows in ?  :D
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #39 - 05/12/23 at 16:28:10
 
Awesome Steve!

Did your pre-design anticipate the wings?  Or did you listen first, and decide you needed to try something different?

Or is this more for aesthetics? Or both looks and sound?

Those of us that started our open baffle journey with Mr. Randy's baffles, learned the magic of the curve, so really wondering if that played into your decision to do this?

Best,

Geno

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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #40 - 05/12/23 at 21:01:10
 
The phase shift at 30 Hz was measured with the speaker in free air.  I don't know what it measures in the cabinet yet.   I wouldn't waste my time on a speaker with a hole in the resulting frequency response which is why I designed a transformer for the driver just in case. So far am not hearing any holes in the bass response.


The wings were designed at the same time as the speaker.  They are optional.  The purpose is to project sound similar to the way the larger open baffles do.  It adds density to the midrange.  

Yes, the pillows are part of the speaker.  They are not optional.


I stayed up most of the night listening to these.  I had to take today off and sleep.




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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #41 - 05/13/23 at 02:00:40
 
Hey Steve,

Another great design. I'm envisioning a piano hinge to fold the wings back out of the way when not in use. (Just for aesthetics). Possibility? Or too much danger of unwanted resonance?

Randy
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #42 - 05/13/23 at 02:20:51
 
Quote:
May as well sell all the other speakers in the room.  Even the house speakers peed themselves a little bit.


That speaks volumes (no pun intended).
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #43 - 05/13/23 at 02:47:30
 
Steve, I would like your comparison of this new pair vs the origin 10 speaker that Lii sells.

Thanks John
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #44 - 05/13/23 at 22:22:59
 
With the wings it reminds me of the Voigt pipe Speakers but the horn is folded so it isn't as tall.  

https://fredt300b.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Building-the-Voigt-Pipes/





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The piano has been drinking
The piano has been drinking,
Not me, not me, not me, not me, not me
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #45 - 05/14/23 at 02:03:27
 
Thank you very much Steve for taking the time out of your already busy schedule to squeezing out ever once of performance from these remarkable drivers. I'm amazed at how great they sound in the S10 cabinets. Can't wait to get them in your design. I love the contrast of the black cabinets with these drivers. Makes them really pop.
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #46 - 05/14/23 at 05:02:02
 

Today I got up and wrestled with the pool liner.  After I finally got it out I had to put a new bottom in the pool.  Several trips to town for stuff, rain, brutal.  The only thing that doesn't hurt right now is my eyeballs. So I'm having a couple beers to kill the pain and taking the opportunity to listen more to these speakers.

So far all I have heard them on in this room is my UFO25, and only turned up to 1:30 on the dial. That's plenty loud, in fact 10:30 would be the normal listening level with these speakers in my largish room.

Tonight I decided to hear some of my reference tracks for slam that I used in the wood shop which is when the name 'Headwrecker' was coined.

I wanted to see what these things sounded like turned up, like we played them in the wood shop, but that was a push-pull amp with 3 to 5 times the power...  Anyway I decided to do what any normal man would do in this situation and turned up the dial until the VR tubes in the back and or the meters started to flinch. I got to 3:00 on the dial and it was so loud I stopped.  The amp was not clipping, I could not believe it.  It was as loud or louder than I remember in the wood shop, and this room is much larger and a lot deader...

So I listened to this particular track and had a brand new thought that I've never had before...



The slam and the speed at which the notes stop is so over the top, I've never heard anything do it this well before. It actually made me realize with amazement that air is really fast! That those notes could leave that cone and hit my chest that fast without any softening or spongy effect from the 9 foot air cushion was really just astounding.

The uncanny thing about these speakers, and this was true in the wood shop too, is that at high SPL, the clarity is unheard of. This goes back to the felt thing and the discord that came with it. The clarity from top the bottom on this is so unreal that you can play music 10dB (twice as loud) without shorting out your brain because your ears actually like it. No other speaker has this insane density throughout the midrange and top end.  It makes tweeters sound silly, like BB's. The highs on these speakers are like 50 caliber rounds compared to BB's.

These speakers, if you could record it, could easily reproduce a 50 caliber round shot inside a building. After it went off, you would look at your chest to make sure you weren't hit. That is the kind of realism from a density and dynamics and speed perspective that these speakers are achieving.

So yea, they actually made me ponder how fast air actually is. It was faster than I thought. That was the conclusion, after listening to sounds for 62 years., most of it audiophile grade.  Also the fact that what I am experiencing is through a 2.3 watt Zen Triode Amplifier is just about impossible to believe.  The Zen TORII mono's on the house speakers only graze the boundary of what these speakers are doing with 30 times less power.

Never before has my bell been ringed this hard or my chest thumped this crisply --  and please understand that Decware started out life in the 1990's as a pro audio company that designed, built and installed sound systems in night clubs.  We used Imperial horns, several of them in each club.  We could make you car vibrate just driving by the club on main street.  

With all that, and hundreds of IASCA winning car audio systems that I designed prior to the pro audio business, and the 30 years of DECWARE that you know of -- making low power amplification... I have a reputation for serious bass which means good bass and I can safely say that I have never heard anything hit like this. It's ear candy. You might think with millions of watts and a line array of woofers and subs that you can achieve similar results, but that's because you've not heard this, so we'll give you benefit of the doubt until you come over and listen to it in person.  You can't make that many voice coils work together with this kind of resolution, it's impossible.

So again, with all this experience and bass reference it was never anywhere near this fast. And speed was its hallmark. But speed is relative. The speed is the key.  These speakers are a lesson from the Audio Gods.  It will be a real thrill to share them with audio community.  

Steve  







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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #47 - 05/14/23 at 05:20:41
 

Noise floor in the room is 36dB A weighted.  Listening level in the chair is 95dB.  I was shocked because it feels like well over 100dB.  I would have guessed 102dB.  The fact that a Zen amp is doing this is just warping my head.  God, what's going to happen with bigger amps!

These speakers are like the ZMF flagship planar headphones for the entire room.  Headphones is the only thing that has this speed. But dynamics, no.  You thought it was dynamic, but no.  You have to come over and feel it pummel you chest while your ears are at the same time taking in a breath of fresh air, with zero fatigue or compression.  I'd have to say it is the lowest distortion high SPL sound I have heard.  Even the MBL at AXPONA didn't do this, although it gave it one hell of a shot.  If this was a baseball bat, that was a baseball bat wrapped in felt.

Going to be another long night I can already tell...  If I go down my organ music rabbit hole with these speakers it will be another all nighter...

Hey you only live once.

Steve

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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #48 - 05/14/23 at 05:54:57
 

Sorry I know this is droning on and on, but I have to capture it as it happens.  I am listening to 'Send me an Angel' on this same album and this is really the epitome of heavy / hard metal music.  It is so dense with stuff that 99% of the time when I hear music like this I bail out and in a damn hurry because the horizontal headroom disappears.

Tonight I am listening to this through the UFO25 which has been processed by Cryotone, and connected directly the HOLO Audio MAY dac and I have never heard music this 'busy' sound this clear.  I did not know it was possible.  Until right now, I was bias against this music because I am allergic to homogenization.  I am so stunned that I feel like I just uncovered a whole new universe of sound.  It's like going from the Hubble to the James Web and finding out you live inside a black hole.

God I love this hobby and being able to share it with all of you is my Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #49 - 05/14/23 at 06:59:04
 
Steve…something weird just happened with my last post that it showed up on your post.  

Anyway….just wanted to say that I played the Magic Mushroom song at work in my Tahoe and it’s one killer track!  Please post your impressions and track listing  with the organ music you play.  I love listening to pipe organ music on my system.  It’s like a freight train running through your heart.  I can’t imagine what it must sound like through the Lil Headwrecker horns.  

Dom
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