I have quite a few components hooked up in My system, which has been causing alot of grounding issues.  I finally have the systems components grounded and have balanced out those ground circuits...

For the first time I am hearing what was described in the owners manual, crystal clear limitless depth in the music wow! This amp will never leave My areas possession now...

I have a true subwoofer which is high power so it has to have a good ground to stay silent, a rotel 1098 and 4 other amps and another processor, it's been a long journey but I finally got things together, also routing power though a few 3000 watts max surge/rfi interference filters.

fully is right, after over a year it was worth the wait, things just sounded abit muddled before but now crystal clear and wow the upper frequencies are where they should be, maybe a vcap upgrade will get done later on.  I like the potential I'm finally seeing, the power caps in the Torrii are going to have to season/burn in for awhile before things actually settle where they should have been..  

things should get better and better now.

I only added the grounding , now all the components can get prooper current flow. finally the music comes through.. the 3 prong plugs in My system weren't adequate to stop the ground loops, the grounding that I just did was in addition to the standard 3 prong plugs grounding.

Things were getting worse that's why I had to get it figured out again, I actually had most of the sytem grounded  before (in addition to the standard 3 prong plug grounding), I knew an imbalance was in the system, so I added a final ground on the front side of the chain of components to open up the bottleneck that was apparently happening...

It requires electricians certification to do what I did so I can't give out any direct info.. people may end blowing up their equipment or getting  harmful or fatal electric shock(s) ...

With all of the hype about the newer, cooler models, it is easy to forget about the humble mk III.  i have been loving mine for about 2 years now and it does get better and better.  Stick with it V.

Tom and Lon I cannot agree with you guys strongly enough.  Decware is a life changer.  Just had an old friend visit and listen for a few hrs and he couldn't believe it...he kept on repeating "this is vinyl?", had a hard time understanding the depth of soundstage and in the room feel.  Played him some Dianna Krall, Jobim, Beck's new album and Robbie Shankar's lesser known daughter Anoushka.

Much love,

JD

Thanks for posting that. What cables did you move to and from? If you don't mind sharing.

I echo your observation that the Mk III lets you hear changes. I just put a Herbie's Audio Lab turntable mat on my RP3. I immediately heard a change from the felt mat that came with the table (it was a table that had been upgraded to an Exact2 cartridge and the yellow mat that matched the cartridge). I heard immediate differences. . . I like both mats, each have their own character, and can help with tailoring sound with older lps. The Mk III lets me quite clearly hear each distinctive character of the respective mats.

Lon,  which Herbies  TT mat did you get?  and what size...thickness and diameter? As you know I have a Rega RP6 TT with the factory installed Exact 2 Cart, which I assume has a similar size glass platter as the RP3.  I've been meaning to replace the felt mat...just haven't gotten around to it yet.  Mark.

I have been exploring the MKIV and MKIII together but in different rooms. Having heard a Taboo, 34SE and Rachel, I would say all Decware amps are potentially very revealing. There is something very transparent about the MKIII though in this respect of revealing changes, I agree. Its potential for bass intensity in my settings is a factor that I did not get with the other amps giving subtle changes more importance. I don't think I have ever made a change of settings, tubes, feet, cables or even subtle power tweaks that could not be perceived. Some pretty subtle, but most notable.

I hear you JD. I think it depends so much on so many things, but the tightening of the 5Y4s can be pretty useful. I go back and forth on the RCA 5U4G-ST and 5Y4GYs, particularly in the MKIII. Right now, to chill the mid bass in my new room, I am liking some GE 5Y4GYs...clean, open and tight, but also some 40s RCA 5U4G-ST. I get your silver IC thing too. My favorite interconnects have been silver for a long time. I do find differences between the silvers as much as between good copper and good silver though, and with well designed and implemented cables, it seems a synergy and taste thing finally. I do seem to find that the silver I have tried tends to bring out micro information nicely though. Right now I am using Grovers from my DAC to the CSP3 and VHAudio DIY silver from CSP to MKIV.

I decided to do some more tube rolling so I've replaced my nos pair of mullard 6922 and a telefunken e88cc with a pair of nos siemens e188cc's and a amperex 7308.  I have really come to enjoy the 7308's in my input positions on my torii so why not try em all around in the csp2+.

JD

will wrote on 04/20/14 at 18:31:35:


I find them to have a fuller sound without losing detail or dynamics, and to have the copper warmth thing with the silver quickness if that makes any sense (?) The presentation just seems "right." The Cryoset Version 2 I used for some time almost have all these qualities except the bit of quickness the Evolution does provide. The only analog spot I don't yet have VooDoo Cable interconnects is between the ZP3 and the second CSP2+ -- I'm using an Analysis Plus cable there that is very good. But someday perhsps. . . .:)

Well, if you ever get a chance to audition the VooDoo Cable line of interconnects, I'd recommend taking the opportunity. I think they may offer an avenue into what you are exploring.

I'm very happy with mine and they mate well with all my other cabling, which is also important. I've ordered a few sets of their IsoPods as well to try under my CSP2+s and ZP3. I can't use Iso-Cups there because of the AC-12 power cords, which exert too much backwards force, so I'm using Tenderfeet. But the IsoPods are suppoed to not "move" and that may mean that I can use them, and I bet they'll improve the sound in comparison to the Tenderfeet; the Tenderfeet are the weakest link I have in my isolation componentry.

Interesting the focus on microdynamics and microdetail. The dynamics aspect in particular has been something that has been noticed by my ears of late. I find this a characteristic of my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC, any shift in dynamics is noticeable and really puts a "breath of life" into the music. And then I found a similar, almost to the same extent, characteristic in an unexpected place, the California Audio Labs changer that I put into my Dad's system. Dad and I have both been surprised at the dynamic control that this player has brought to that system, where no other source has come close. With the music we are listening to there, solo piano and chamber music and orchestral pieces, this dynamic contrast in presentation really stands out and makes an involving iistening. (And this with MAC silver cabling and Decware power cables). The Torii Mk II is very capable of showing this sort of detail and sorting it all out well. I had underestimated this amp before, it's really shining lately.

Hey, there are many ways to skin the audio cat! Each room is different, we all have different tastes, and I think we can all agree on one thing: not an ordinary amp or DAC can pull off what our Decware systems can if worked on for best setup and output!

The more I have delved into this hobby these decades the more I've learned that synergy is the key to system cohesiveness, and that what works for one doesn't always work for another, and vice versa.

This is a hobby that can take you through a lifetime, for the most part. . .happily.

I had to use Tenderfeet, even in a cabinet the weight of the AC-12 (this is a heavy ass cable, but works oh so wonderfully in my system) makes Iso-Cups unusable. I'm hoping the IsoPod from VooDoo Cable will work.

Regarding the CL-10: surprised the heck out of me that a fifteen year old changer would sound so good, but then every review of this I've read alludes to this being THE audiophile changer, so I shouldn't be too surprised. Only the PerfectWave DAC (Mk I or II) has bettered it in my experience in dynamic control and contrast. That's big praise for what turned out to be a very solid unit bought for 300 dollars.

JD,  that's a new word for me.  For the others too lazy to look it up...see below.  Mark.

e·pis·te·mol·o·gy

noun PHILOSOPHY
1.
the theory of knowledge, esp. with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.

Lon:  You asked me which silver cables I have.  They are the United Home Audio (the Tape Project People) Dragon and Celtic.  The speaker cables are Double Dragons.

Tom

With 7308's all around the sound was too relaxed, a little too much floating around. tried it for a week or so and it worked great on some recordings but not all.  I've put back a telefunken e88cc in the driver position of the csp2+ and I am very happy. Seems a happier medium.

JD

Well, since I mentioned the VooDoo Cable "Iso-Pods" above I wanted to add some info now that they have arrived.

These are very interesting. They are similar to Herbie's Iso-Cups and also Roller Blocks from Ingress Engineering or Symposium. But unlike the Roller Blocks they don't allow any noticeable latteral movement, they have a magnetic field holding them together pretty solidly.  

I was hoping I could put these under the CSP2+ and ZP3 and they wouldn't wobble or be too low that the AC-12 power cords would cause them to move or lift. Well, success there, put these under the preamps and they are solid. But. . . I didn't like the sound that much. The quick and warm bass was just gone. Puzzling. Very clear and open midbass, great treble, but bass. . . vanished. I messed about a bit with controls etc. but never quite got close to what I had before in the lower frequencies. So I put the Tenderfeet back in, there you go, the bass was back.

I have Iso-Cups under my Power Plant Premier but wasn't sure they were doing much. So I tried five of the Iso-Pods under the PPP and was very surprised. There was a more open midrange and no loss in other frequencies. And then I had freed up five Iso-Cups with Deep Moss Quartz balls and had another one in the closet so I tried them under the two preamps. This time, since they are sitting on a PowerBase, somehow they wer quite stable on the Iso-Cups, and the sound now was just great. A bit more depth to the sound with the right tonal balance and seemed a bit more revealing of dynamic changes. Okay, I stuck a fork in the mix, done. Very happy with the improvements, certainly not earth-shaking but what is?

Next I replaced the four Tenderfeet under the Rega RP3 with four of the Iso-Pods. No question, the Iso-Pods win. More depth AND more detail to the sound. I liked the Roller Blocks under the RP3 but could not live with the latteral movement when they were there, not on an turntable! No such movement with these.

So the Iso-Pods surprised me, didn't like them under my tubed preamps, really liked them under the PPP and the RP3. Interesting pieces.

   I don't have anything technical to add to the discussion, however, I do have a Torii MKIII wow! moment to share.

   My wife and I used to do a lot of quality stereo listening back in the day on the old SS stereo rig.  Long story short, due to kids, jobs schedules not coinciding etc, we just haven't listened to the new Decware Torii MKIII, Monolith spkrs and Oppo 105 together much, (which means she rarely does).  

  Well she's got a elementary school job so is off for the summer. Today the kids were out and about and I had the tubes warmed up so asked her to sit in the sweet spot.  I had some Music Matters jazz on and she was impressed with the sound but said she missed how the old stereo imaged so well.  I said well this one can too, it's just that  the old 50's stereo recording always sound hard left/right.  So I put on the the Eagles - Hotel California sacd and selected Pretty Maids All In A Row as I know it has the players spaced out pretty well and she likes the song.

   I sat next to her and after the song was over I turned and asked what she thought.  She had tears running down her cheeks.  Pointing at them she said "that's how beautiful I think it sounds"   I have never in 15yrs with her seen her react to the music that way and she now finally gets how great this Decware gear is after having listening to me babble on and on for months about how superior it all is.

Anyways, it was a pretty cool moment and I figured I'd share it with you guys.

Greg

Nice Greg! Thanks for the story. I have been brought to tears by the MKIII and the MkIV! Part of it for me is no doubt gratitude for Steve and Bob and crews for offering gear that can develop musical realism in our homes. But most of it is that extraordinary realism grabbing me and blowing my mind!

Me too. I can get great sound from the Valve Art 274B (and 5V4s, and 5Y4GYs) depending on tubes, but I most often end up right where you are...50's 5U4G-ST with OB3s.

Hey Greg,

In general I've found the ST type to have a touch leaner bass and midrange in my Mk III. In between the 5Y3GT and 5U4GB of most brands and vintages. So it may well be worth trying out. Like will I have moved to OB3 tubes and the ST mates well with them. I found a pair of old Acturus OB3 tubes that just work so well with my other tube complement that I hope they last forever!

If you look at ebay often enough there are ST pairs reasonbly priced. . . I would not spend a lot til you know this is a useful type.

Lon and Will,

     I think most of my bass issues stem from my small living room.  11 X 13'.  I sure wish I had a larger LR so that I could pull the Monoliths out and away from the front wall more.  I really can't get them more than 14" from the wall because they'd just intrude too much.  (we live in a 1920's bungalow, smallish rooms).  Thankfully the 5y3gt's allow me to overcome, to an extent, the room issue.

I think if I can find 5U4G-ST's cheap enough I'll get them to try.  I've got the OB3's that I could use w/ them if needed,  C's and D's too for that matter, it'd be fun to experiment.  

Anyways,  thanks for the great info.

Greg

Will,

Glad you mentioned that.  I did use some old sweatshirts in the horns back when I first got the spkrs and that seemed to help some.  I pulled them out a couple weeks ago after running the KT66's for several days.  Haven't felt the need to put them back in.  I'll play around some more next week when I'm off work for 7days. The other day my wife had bought some pillow stuffing at Michael's to restuff a couple couch pillows. The white, fibrous stuff.  May get some more and stuff a couple old flannel pillow cases we've got laying around and play with different densities to see what works best.

Hmm,  like some of those plugs that some speakers come w/..  interesting idea.  I will play around over the next week or so and let you know what I come up with.  You're a smart man Mr Will.  :)

Greg

Sorry for the giant pic.  Gotta figure that one out.

So did an inventory around the house.  Found a paint roller which is a plastic tube with the fuzz around it.  Cut it in half.  Figured that would narrow the port somewhat.

Used the opening song on Zep II, Whole Lotta love.  The bass riff can sound sorta plodding when cranked.   Then took different amounts of pillow batting and stuffed the tube with it until I got the bass trimmed just enough to tighten up some.  I'll keep putzing but the concept seems valid.  I know from the picture it looks like the bass would be muffled by all the stuffing, but it is just loose batting and its not in there as densely as it appears.  

Fun experiment.

Greg