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Advice for a newbie (Read 1943 times)
Coqui
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Posts: 29
Advice for a newbie
07/20/23 at 00:59:43
 
Hello,

I'm a newbie to tubes and I would really appreciate your assistance. I have been on the waiting list for the new Decware Rachael for more than one year.

I saw a thread in which people were taking about having a Decware Rachael and are very pleased with it. I have a pair of Omega Compact Alnico Monitors and Omega subwoofer to use with the amp and I plan to use this system in a small room/bedroom (9 X 14 feet). My sources are the following:
Bluesound Node 2 (original version)
Jay's Audio Cdt 2 mk3
Denafrips Pontus 12th Anniversary
Rega Planar 3

I also read that the Rachael likes sources with an output of 2.5 volts or more. I checked and I discovered that the Node 2, Jay's CD transport, and the Pontus output is only 2.0 volts. I would like to know if there is a solution to solve this problem and do I need to order a different amplifier (e.g., UFO 2.1, UFO 25th Anniversary). I have a second spot on the waiting list which I could use to order Decware preamp (CSP3), which I don't know if it could help compensate for the low voltage of my sources. Most threads tend to talk more about the SuperZen and the UFO 25th Anniversary amps and not as much about the Rachael.

Any suggestions or thoughts that could help me make a good decision as to which amplifier to order will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Ramón
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Edsonic
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Posts: 154
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #1 - 07/22/23 at 11:26:23
 

What kind of music do you listen to, and at what loudness levels? It looks as though you had at one point decided on a Torii Jr. for an amplifier and now have changed to the SE34I (Rachael) amplifier, which leads me to think you aren't interested in reproducing a live rock concert experience in your room.

If that be the case, then I don't think there's an issue, here. The Rachael has a sensitivity of 2.5 volts for full power, which does not mean that it is some minimum requirement. More than 2.5 V would overload the amp, so reading it as "2.5 V or more" is not correct.  Theoretically, 2 V input would have the amp output @ 80% full power, so ~ 4.8 W vs. 6 W. With those Omega speakers, 'on paper', at least, it could still blast ~ 101.3 dB @ 1 meter away.

An input of 2 volts is not at all "low," it's just a bit lower than the sensitivity of the Rachael amplifier. The same 2 volts going into an amplifier with 1 V or 1.5 V sensitivity would require attenuation via amplifier volume (gain) control to prevent overload.

You don't list what phono preamp you have, but if you play vinyl records often enough you might indeed need a line stage preamplifier to go along with it. A loud signal from the phono cartidge through the phono preamp can occasionally (briefly) peak as much as 2-2.5 V, but for various reasons the average sound level from vinyl playback is generally a bit lower than from digital playback.


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Yakatak
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Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #2 - 07/23/23 at 01:21:55
 
While I completely agree with Edsonic, if you want a little more headroom, you might consider inserting a ZStage into your system. It's the component just in front of my Rachel, and I have no problem raising the roof with the Heresey's.  I'm currently at #10 on the Accelerated list for a new full mod ZStage.  My basic ZStage will be up for sale when it arrives.....if you might be interested.
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Coqui
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Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #3 - 07/23/23 at 15:10:19
 
Hello Edsonic and Yakatak,

Thanks so much for your replies and input! Yes, I started with a Tori Jr. because my plan was to use less sensitive speaker (87 db with an impedance of 4 ohms). I decided that I should give low power amps a chance and sold my speakers and got the Omegas, which are rated at 94.5 db sensitivity at 8 ohms. I was using the Luxman SQ-150 with the Omega CAM and they were not getting loud with Luxman. I don't want to make the same mistake and I made with the Luxman and want to be sure that I have enough power; I usually listen to music within the 70 to 85 dbs. I will use this amp in either a small room (9 x 14 feet) or a medium room (17 X 15 feet). Based on you feedback, the Rachael will have more than enough power for these rooms. I also have a pair of Omega subs. I listen to a variety of music ranging from small Jazz assembles to rock and Latin music. I have two spot on the waiting list and y plan is to also order the Decware preamp to maximize the sound of my sources and have some flexibility moving forward and be able to use other amplifiers.

I'm currently using the internal phono stage of my Rotel integrated amp but I'm planning to get an external phono pre-amp when I get the Rachael.

Yakatak, your suggesting of the ZStage is interesting and will try to learn more about. My question is: Will the Decware pre-amp do the same thing that the ZStage would do for me?

I cannot thank enough for sharing your experiences and expertise with me!

Ramón
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hdrider
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On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 695
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #4 - 07/23/23 at 15:38:50
 
Ramon - Thank you for the PM reply, glad to share my experiences with our Decware gear and very glad to see you on this forum. Great information, strong opinions based on experiences and some humorous and wonderful people. I'm very interested in hearing your experiences as you build up your system. Happy listening, Chris.
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CSP3, Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, Sony ES Bluray, Schitt Bitfrost DAC,Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Hana SL Low Output Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
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Dominick
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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1165
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #5 - 07/23/23 at 16:49:34
 
When I got back into vinyl, my Rega phono MKV preamp worked great, but it would still come up short at times with some recordings.  My ZSTAGE was an absolute godsend with Vinyl.  I would not play vinyl with out it.

The ZSTAGE was my first piece of Decware gear I bought going back 15 years ago.  At its price point…it’s a great purist preamp.  I just recently sold mine to free up some funds and upgrade to a CSP2+ 25th.   Otherwise my ZSTAGE would still be here.

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Tommy Freefall
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Posts: 400
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #6 - 07/23/23 at 18:53:20
 
Coqui,
I've got a Bluesound Node and a Rachael, in a large, loft room, driving 93sb speakers. I get very good volume from this setup.
Although it will work without it, I also use a ZStage as a minimalist pre-amp, and prefer the sound of having it over without it. That little extra voltage - to my ears - gives the music more weight/density/body.
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Torii MkIV w/ 25th ann mods
Rachael SE34I.5
Benchmark AHB2
ERRx
ZStage, ZRock2
Tascam CD-240
Border Patrol DAC
Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Bluesound Node
Zu Audio Mission speaker cables
Decware I/Cs
PI Audio MiniBUSS
Zenhead, Grado 325e
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Coqui
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Posts: 29
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #7 - 07/24/23 at 02:33:59
 
Hello everybody! I'm thrilled to read all of your responses; I'm learning quite a bit. So, I have a question: Should I get a ZStage instead of the ZPS-3 pre-amp? Should I get both? I don't want to spend too much money on both if I don't have to because I could use my limited funds for other upgrades.

BTW, it is a treat to get it is a treat to get feedback from all of you because my friends and family are not into this hobby. I have been learning on my own and, at times, making costly mistakes.

Thanks for your generous welcome!

Ramón
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Dominick
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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1165
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #8 - 07/24/23 at 15:34:10
 
Just reread your original posts. When you get your Rachel…you will need to buy a separate Phono preamp that handles the RIAA network.  The ZP3 is a phono preamp that handles the RIAA network…just like all phono preamps do.  The ZSTAGE is just a tube preamp and does not handle the RIAA network.  

If you want to save some money you could buy a Rega Fono MKV “phono preamp” to handle the RIAA network.  They go for like $450/500.  I run one and I have no complaints.  You could then buy the ZSTAGE for added tube gain.    BUT…..the ZP3 is in a completely different league in comparison to the Rega Fono MKV.  If you are just starting out, and funds are limited, then going the aforementioned path and saving some money is not a bad thing.  

Buying the ZP3 and a ZSTAGE bone stock will run you like $2300, minus shipping and Anniversay upgrades if decide to add them. Buying a Rega Fono MKV and a ZSTAGE ( without upgrades) would run you like $1300.

While the Decware amps don’t necessarily need a preamp, I would say that the majority, if not all, of the Decware amp owners run a some sort of preamp for gain riding.  Hope this helps.

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Coqui
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Posts: 29
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #9 - 07/26/23 at 01:09:33
 
Hello Dominick,

Thanks for clarifying what the difference is between a ZStage and a pre-amp. I have to do some thinking and see how I want to spend my upgrade money while I wait for the Rachael.

Thanks again!

Ramón

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riknbkr330
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Posts: 31
Re: Advice for a newbie
Reply #10 - 08/08/23 at 21:56:00
 
I run a Rachel into Omega Super 7 MKII, along with deephemp sub.  

For my CD/DAC player I use and OppoBD105, which I believe has a 2.1V out.  
What I did was get a ZBIT to increase the voltage.  Luckily the Oppo has XLR analog outs, so it was pretty easy to couple into the ZBIT (something to consider if you go that route), and it really helped the sound from the player.

Maybe that's another option for you..also depending on the wait time you can tolerate as well.
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Main System:
Decware Rachael; Omega Monitor 7; Omega deep8 sub; Oppo BD-105>Zbit; Rega P5; Dynavector 20X2L;Parks Budgie SUT; Decware ZP3.
Second System: Creek Classic 5350SE; Rega RS1; Dual 1264; Musical Surroundings Phonomena II
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