I thought the network was for the silver 10, but I could easily have been mistaken.

Thanks appreciate it all

Hey John,
I apologize in advance- I really rambled on this one.
To, answer your question about using one of Steve’s networks. I am not using any type of crossover, or network for these drivers. In fact, I removed the binding posts and internal wiring that the origin speakers came with. I hard-wired my speaker cables directly to the back of the binding posts on the drivers themselves.
Your taking be me back a few years with the tracks you selected. High and Dry came out when I was in high school. I remember coming back from the first of two a day practices for football. After eating something I would lay on my bed, put on my headphones with this album cranked and fall asleep. If my ears could only take that kind of abuse now.
What I consider loud may be tame to your liking. Using an app on my iPhone, I’m getting about 88db peaks for my long-term listening volume. At this level, the soundstage fills in, and out nicely, the music has really good attack, decay and texture. There is no glare, harshness or bloat to the sound.
The other day I put on Robin Trower “Bridge of Sighs”. This is one of those albums I wore out as a kid. As my system has evolved through the years with each level of refinement, I would put this album on with anticipation, only to be disappointed time and time again. It always sounded good, but just didn’t have that sparkle, or texture, maybe a little flat, and 2D. Really well recorded music has a tendence to take the fun out of some great music that’s out there. They sound so darn good, they disinfect the sound of lesser quality recordings.

When you get fed some really good ear candy, it’s hard to go back to Chicklets.

I have to say. when I listened to this album the other day, I am happy to report, this sounded like whole different recording. I was streaming FLAC 44.1 16 bit via Tidal. The sound of the snare had a resonance that I’d never heard in this recording. On the track “Bridge of Sighs” the sound of the guitar has a metallic grit to it that I never identified with before. It wasn’t in a screechy, obnoxious way, that annoyed.
I mentioned in a prior post upstream, that I added a new PC about week and a half after I installed the P10's. I know the PC took a vail off the sound- it was an upgrade I’m very glad I made. But- what these speakers do is to not only keep pace, rhythm, dynamics, textures, decay, tone ,through the hole song, they add a dimension of a tactile presence. The palpability they add is what keeps me pulled in. It’s what really separates them from anything else I’ve heard. The PC definitely cleaned things up- but these drivers are taking what is provided and doing some really amazing stuff.
Let’s look at your play list. I’m going to give an impression of each. All streaming SD via Tidal.
Hysteria- This sounded pretty good. Big soundstage. On “Women” the snare was set back in the soundstage- it doesn’t have the same presents or weight, as it might on some other recordings. When I listen to rock music, I like the drums to have weight and presents. To me it helps heighten the sense of realism. This recording didn’t offer that. But- on “Hysteria”, it came out a little more. Still not convincing, but better.
Hotel California- The live version of course sounded great- puts you there. The studio version is to me- like one of those “Bridge of Sighs” recordings. Don’t know what to expect. Let’s just put it this way. I listened to the whole album.
Big Sugar- “When My Heart Refused” Was more on the Hysteria side. It sounded good, but the base was muddy, the background chorus was washed out, but other parts of it sounded good. Kinda of hit and miss with this one.
As good as these speakers have the ability to heighten the experience of listening to music, they can only portray with what they are fed. With a good recording you have all the positives mentioned above that makes these drivers special. While there are still recordings you like, but don’t bring that magic, I’ve found them fewer and fewer with these. Pour recordings and upstream limitations do show themselves, and I mean that as a compliment.

Hey John,

During my review above, I didn't find any of the recordings offensive, or off putting. They just didn't sound nearly as good.

Some things that come to mind, that will hopefully help.

You could try to EQ the frequencies down on the recordings that aren't working for you.

Room treatments make a big difference to tame harsh music. Steve has some great info on that.

Upstream components and cabling also make a big difference, especially in regards to digital.

I removed the internal wiring and run my speaker cables direct. Using Silversmith cables.

Speaker position makes a big difference in SQ. If you haven't spent the time to find the perfect placement, and toe in for the origins it would be time well spent. Once you find that perfect position- mark the floor with painter tape. Especially if you're swapping speakers back and forth.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. That’s what I got in an email from Lii but hadn’t had a chance to post it.  

Looks like some router work for me.  I think I’ll mount them in my old baffles first for breakin / evaluation and if it’s worth it I’ll build some new baffles.   I think I can do some fairly nice ones for around $300.

I see the P10 can be purchased thru Decware. Still a couple of months before expected delivery. Interesting that Decware passes warranty issues to Lii audio but very understandable being the backlog of Decware equipment is over 2100++. Plus, speaker driver repair is ancient history for Decware.

https://www.decwareproducts.com/product-page/lii-song-platinum-10

John

I’ve been looking around for a countertop.  That’s a great price.

That’s awesome—hopefully, this means Geno should be getting his drivers soon too.  Looking forward to your impressions!

"WTFDID" was new to me, but within the context of your review, pretty easy to figure out.  :)

Congrats on your new drivers.  May they provide countless hours of pleasure and delight.

I echo Tom's description of the P-10 being more resolving than the C-10. I am hearing more detail.

Last night, I started the listening with albums. Pretty even sound across the board. I made no adjustments coming from the C-10. Very happy.

A bit later, I switched to digital (thru my modded CXN) and for the most part was happy. A few of my favorite test tracks sounded a bit bright. Break-in will tell if that evens out.

Tom, I anxiously await your measurement comparisons. I could not help but feel like maybe a little adjustment might be needed to smooth things out.

Hey Kamran.

Yep, so far so good with the new drivers. They sound very good. I am using the Lii W-15 bass drivers with mine, and Tom is using Acoustic Elegance 15’s.

You will need bass support with these. Not sure about P-15.

As soon as I feel like these are broken in pretty well, I’ll post a video.

Best,

Geno

I'd also add that I am intrigued by Steve's much more purist approach with the folded horn.  His price on the plans is extremely reasonable.  Many moons ago I built the original DNA type setup with the DM945s and separate bass cabinets.  Those were well regarded by all who heard them.  They didn't go that low, but produced some pretty musical bass.

I'm a better wood worker now so I'm sure I could build those cabinets.

But I've been combining 15" mid bass drivers in OBs for some time now.

Under Randy's tutelage, I started with the Eminence 15As, then the Hawthorne Audio Augies.  Then I sprung for the Acoustic Elegance LO15s and haven't regretted it.  I've also heard and been impressed with the Pure Audio Project version of the 15A.  You used to be able to buy them individually.  

There was some dustup between Acoustic Elegance and Lii Song over the design similarities between the W15 and their 15" drivers.  I'd expect they are very similar sounding but I haven't been able to spend enough time with the W15s at the fest to know.

I'm terrible about selling my used gear, so I still have the baffles/crossover/drivers for my TangBand W1808/15A setup that just ran off my Rachael.  That was a more simplistic approach but if you want big bass, you'd need to step up to some of the other, less efficient drivers I've mentioned and pair them with a high watt amp (like a Crown).

If the P10s work out, I am thinking of combining my old C10s with a 12" from AE or Lii in a smaller baffle for my second system with Rachael.  Right now, in that system I am running the 945s with a sub I built.

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Yes I see that. Happens sometime. I'll fix that. Thanks. Have a nice weekend. (They're all weekends for me, especially since my wife is also now retired).

Thanks for your input on these Palomino. Very helpful. Open baffle just won't work in my room. I am really considering the horns as a final speaker build.
John

Great write up, Tom.

Glare can be an issue with these. Your suggestion of turning the Zbit down, and Amp up more, has helped with this.

The Crystals seemed to be more consistent across the board, and I have many favorite tracks, that always sound great on them. But some of these don’t sound as good on the Platinums. I think that with the added clarity of the P10, they are not very forgiving, and expose any weakness in a recording. Other favorites sound better than ever.

My issue with digital, is that I have a huge library of recordings that I have downloaded on computer, from many different sources. The P10’s are exposing some of these to be not as good as I thought they were. I don’t stream from a streaming service.

The most amazing thing with the new drivers, is how much better my phono rig sounds. Tonight, I listened to a high quality recording of an album I’ve listened to since I was 16, and was absolutely shocked at how much better it sounded.

Bottom line is that, with consistently good recordings, these things are wonderful. And I have faith that they will get even better, and smooth out more, as they break in.

*Edit - I got to thinking, if my records sound so much better, maybe I need to try tape. As I type this, I’m listening to a mix tape that I recorded a while back. So much better, that it’s like listening to a different tape. The new drivers react very well to the warmth of analog. Wow!

I flipped the bias switch to the less aggressive position and listening to that today.  Last night it seemed goid.

It took me quite a while to get the C10s the way I like them.  Tubes, amp settings, Zbit adjustment, etc. The 25th is pretty versatile.  I’d think a mini Torri owner would enjoy tinkering with these drivers.

Just a quick update.  These drivers have broken in nicely.  No hint of harshness now.  Best speaker setup I've had to date.  I am most anxious to compare what I am hearing in my room to the folded horns at the fest.

I'll be listening to see if the bass is as punchy and clear as what I have with 15" drivers/biamp approach but more coherent.

It's my opinion that the C10 was not at the same performance level of the Acoustic Elegance bass drivers and the P10 is.