So I'm still loving my Rachael, but over the last week or so, I noticed one of the 807's I'm using is slowly creeping up on the meters... from 20 to 25 to, ultimately, 40. I swapped them around (left to right) and confirmed that it's the tube, which I assume is going bad. Am I right? It still sounded just fine, but I don't want it to suddenly die and take something else out. Is that the right thing to do?

Also, that means I'm buying a new set of tubes for her. I do like the 807s, and I'll get another NOS pair, but I'm curious what else folks would recommend? I'm using Matsushita 7DJ8's on the front end. I've only tried the EL34s it came with and the Ferranti 807s. Any recommendations on something that won't cost me an arm and a leg? I love the clarity of the EL34s, but I like the "weight" of the 807s (if that makes sense - only word I can find).

As I recall, the Ferranti 807s I had are among the weightier/warmer 807s I tried in my fairly long affair with the tube. I think the closest inexpensive alternative variation on this theme in 807s (that I tried), one's that balanced toward fullness and bass, might be some 60's black base Russian 807s with foil getters... even taking that darker/fuller emphasis a little further as I recall, while still having that 807 spaciousness and fine detail under/within the darkish fullness. For a more neutral, but still having good body and warmth 807, I think earlier RCAs or NUs are nice... the ones with round bottom micas with vertical ribbed oval pieces under the bottom mica, and double bottom rectangular getters. I have tried a few later RCAs with the rectangular bottom mica, and to me they were not as good, a little noisy and also leaner.... but I may have been unlucky with those.

I have been using Tubestore Shuguang Preferred 6L6GCs that are a lot like a neutral 807 to me, but a bit more powerful feeling. The quad I have has really lasted too. Here, they are exceptional at space and very fine detail with a good neutrality both spectrally and dynamically... I might describe them as sort of a cross between nicer 807s and the more expressive and powerful feeling NOS Phillips 7027As.

Another new tube in this neighborhood is a Tungsol 7027A, bold and punchy, with good fine detail, but more solid and dense than the more open and more complexly fine detailed Tubestore Preferred 6L6GC. I am not particularly a Tungsol power tube lover in general. I liked their KT66s better than EL34s, but generally find their power tubes a little rigid and lacking in finer complexity. But I like Tungsol 7027As in my setting. Here they have a nice balance and solidity similar to Tungsol EL34s and KT66s, but as I recall, the 7027As are more dynamic, complex and lively.

A few thoughts anyway.

Good Luck!

Will

Hey drford,

I rarely "recommend" a tube because systems and rooms are so different, and these differences are revealed by how the same tube can fit well in one specific system/room matrix, and not as well in another. Yet outside of systems, we hear that given tubes do have particular complexes of characters, and these can be compared to the particular characteristics of other known tubes. Then, especially since the Ferranti was good in your system, and the ways you describe it in comparison to Tungsol EL34s offered more information toward how you would like to shift your sound... knowing both tube types, I felt like my impressions of other tubes might be of some use.

That said, I am not recommending anything, I just hope that giving comparative impressions of other options might be useful in considerations of possibilities...

And as you heard comparing the stock Tungsol EL34s with the Ferranti 807s, a lot of tubes can sound good, but also, "better" or "worse" can get pretty specific fast once the tube is in your room, the tubes used in these amps being so influential in shaping the sound of the amps, and therefore our experience of music.

So how do we work that out? We know the power tubes can make a difference in our musical experience. And so too can the rectifier. Also various input tubes... and each influences the sound of the others. The "tube set" becomes an interactive matrix of three individual tubes with individual characters. So it seems to me that how these three tube types (in the case of your amp) go together, can become as or more important than each of the different tubes type's individual characteristics. But finally, we know both are important for serious tuning. And considering this complex, in a single amp, we have a pretty vast potential for interesting variations of sound depending on how each tube choice in a given position influences the sounds of the other tubes.

So.... you might pick up some Tungsol KT66s or Preferred Shuguang 6L6GCs, and they may or may not fit as well as your current power tubes for you. But with a few different input tubes on hand that are nice tubes and have variations relative to their characteristic sound influences, and also a few varied rectifiers that are in our tastes range.... and a few different power tubes with their individual characteristic sonic balances.... then we have logarithmic numbers of sonic choices. So one tube can seem to be responsible for changing the whole, and is. But at the same time, the complex of sound is always the combination of the three as much as the qualities of each individual tube.

Thinking about the Ferrantis, in one tube set they might be dark, and in another they could be more neutral, and in another, too clear. And these are just the more obvious considerations based on the color of a tube, the balance between bass, mids, and highs.... Then there are all the other values.... slow or fast.... extended or not... spacious or fuller/thicker... masked to hyper clear... macro detail oriented or fine detail oriented... smooth or edgy..... hyper dynamic, neutrally dynamic or a little flat....etc. With each tube exhibiting these traits in its own way, and each tube influencing the characteristics of the other tubes, having a selection of tubes to work from, we have a lot of fine tuning possibilities toward getting as close as possible to where we are hoping to go.

To me, the whole thing is practicing to facilitate a more complete musical experience, an ever-evolving exploration for me. Fundamentally this seems to be finding tools toward effectively finding a pleasing balance of balances.... And since each of the these sub balances is powerful and complex in and of itself.... And since one tube is very complex in its particular balances, looking at three tubes together, it can get complex indeed, likely resulting in too many perceptions for us to fully linearize into what we think of as "knowledge." But we can feel what we like, what is more inherently pleasing and compelling. And from practicing trusting our preferential evolution, while becoming clearer on cause and effect observations, we get better at predicting how things will work together.

Yet no matter how good we get in this perception and discernment development, we very likely will not absolutely "know" what we are hearing given all this complexity... So we creatively quest and experiment. Then, back to the beginning, when it starts feeling "right," all the balances are coming together in ways that please us, our musical experience can be enhanced.

Just some ramblings from my present take on this audio journey as it applies to tube rolling. But I am a tube exploration freak talking about what can contribute to making a tube exploration freak! I just consistently find that seeking the possibilities via more tube choices can potentiate a greater synergy than individual tubes might imply. So having more good choices as I seek to balance balances together has been useful for me.....

This is not to say I think anyone should go out and buy a lot of tubes all at once, as it can take some bad choices to find the path into our better choices. And admittedly, I have lots of tubes I like that are not being used much, narrowing down to certain mixes at any given time. But then, sometimes someone might ask about this or that tube, and I will listen to some tubes to reacquaint myself with them... and this often sparks a shift that can arrive at a new variety of beauty that is compelling and enlivening. And the more I know tubes, the easier it can become to choose tubes that might suit me based on the observations of others. So I guess what I am saying... in my experience, well researched tubes, bought from reliable sellers, can evolve into a collection of tubes that can teach us about sound, and make or experience richer. But then, I am a tube head, so biased!

Which leads me to "the first one is free."

I recently broke one of my quad of Tungsol 7027As, so have three, while needing four for my amps. And these tubes are well burned in, but not a whole lot past that as I recall, so should have quite a bit of life left in them. If these interest you, and you are OK with paying shipping costs, I could send them to you in hopes that they work well in your system and room. And if not ideal, they might give another frame of reference, and perhaps work well later if mixed with different rectifiers and/or input tubes. So if this appeals, PM your address and I will get them out to you, and if not, no worries.

Have fun!

Will

Closing the story out a bit... Will was kind enough to send me 3 7027A's and I've been listening since they arrived. Overall, I do like them a lot. Rachael with EL34's is crystal clear, and with the 807's is lovely and tubey. With these tubes, I feel like I get the best of both worlds. I just swapped the front end tubes from 7DJ8's to 6N2P's and it's just perfect.

It's amazing what swapping the tubes around does. The very first thing that happened with the 7027A's is I had to re-tweak the sub, dropping it 4db, which is a LOT. Now, I'm playing everything from Classic Rock to LOTS of Jazz (Lon, I'm still working my way through Miles entire catalog on Tidal, end to end...), and currently Brahms Symphony 2, and EVERYTHING sounds awesome.

To those on the waitlist, it's worth waiting for, I promise.

Will, thanks SO MUCH for your kindness and generosity. It's what I love about this forum and the Decware community in general.