Cabinets are finished now, crossover overs are in the works, so it's time to set the stands in place.

The bottoms of the cabinets are now without spikes or threaded inserts, so I purchased flat disks to couple the cabinet to the stand.  Each disk is made up of two halves coupled together with 3 balls that self-center.  It will be a large improvement because it was impossible to get the threaded spikes adjusted perfectly flat.

And here is one of the tweeter crossovers in progress...

 

All I can say is- Steve, you are an amazing man, and I'm glad I stumbled onto your website many years go. I look forward to the future and what you haver to bring to the audio world.

Here are the crossovers for the tweeters nearing completion.  I already installed the other ones in the cabinets and forgot to take pictures after the large beeswax caps were installed.  I spent a hour testing the new crossover and making adjustments to the resistor values to get it to match the originals.  I listened to the midrange on both the original and new crossover on an A/B switch and it was easy to hear the difference.

BTW, a great way to test the quality of a midrange and midrange crossover is to see how long you can listen to it by itself with no woofer or tweeter...  This process will rapidly advance the crossover design well beyond where it would be masked by the woofer and tweeter. The raw midrange can't hide and it has to be really good not to become fatiguing by itself.

The coils I used have less resistance so everything had to be tweaked back into spec.  I was able to match all the parts in this project to within 1% which I think is probably more important that the actual brand of parts used.  

All of these crossover components are bedded into a thick layer of silicon.  I also covered the coils with epoxy to lock the windings so they can't vibrate.

The cables have the same total gauge as the coils. The resistor for the midrange and the tweeter I created with four 5W resistors in parallel for 20W.  This will gracefully current limit the peaks and protect the drivers should someone decide to see how much power the speaker can handle by hanging a 1000 watt amplifier on them.  

I thought about pouring liquid rubber into a mould around each board to lock in the parts and reduce vibration, but after processing that for a bit I realized that will just lock the parts to the board and each other which will actually have more vibration than floating in the air fully isolated.  Also, having a brick in there won't help internal speaker volume.  The way I am building it now it will become a large diffuser for the back wave of the woofer.  So it will be exposed to direct sound from the woofer, but isolated from cabinet vibrations.

Next are the binding post plate and posts...



Nice thick high quality aluminum with brass posts and jumpers that were installed into holes that were too small so that the insulators couldn't fit inside the holes.  This didn't help the look, but more importantly the paint itself became the insulator on some of the posts.  This would be a very big bummer for some guy using a high power high current solid state amp turned up extra loud when the posts short to the plate.

Also notice that screws were used to mount the plate that were too large to fit into the machined holes. It seems like despite real efforts to impress they must have had a helper who wasn't on the same page.


A hi-end speaker design of this quality deserves a better binding post set up.  So after removing the posts, re-chamfering the screw holes, enlarging the holes for the posts for proper fit, sanding the paint off with a brushed finish, painting it black and updating to red copper posts like those used in many of our amplifiers, we have something that looks the part.



We're getting there : )

The speakers on the stands look great in that last shot! A bit intimidating...wicket.

John

Today I finished up the tweeter crossovers.  I had them wired wrong.  After fixing that and listening and adjusting values and matching I was ready to install them.  So far I have one installed but before I could install it where I wanted it, I had to "insulate" the interior of the cabinet. I chose pick'n pluck foam, 2 inches thick.  This allows me to poke out some of the holes which gives the waves some solid surface to load against, and increases the absorption by increasing the surface area.  Each hole adds 4 square inches of surface area.  

So it all started like this... with a single piece of foam in very back:




Then like this:

Above is a picture of the speakers I originally got with the shallow trim and mitered corners instead of butt-jointed like exhibit A. At some point before I got them the miters split like they are doing in the picture above. Someone got the idea to putty the cracks and then air brush a maroon paint over it. When I got the speakers the trim looked way worse than it does in the picture above.  I felt defeated.

Most of you know I have a thing for cool looking wood.  (Tiny Radials)  In fact it was the wood in exhibit A that attracted me to the design of the speaker in the first place so that's what prompted the major surgery. This wood rail should be floating so it can expand and contract independently of the cabinet and the aluminum baffle.

This one was buried into the cabinet. I had to beat it off with a hammer and then repair all the damage when it ripped the front of cabinet apart.

I was unable to get a good picture of the air brushed corners, but they reminded me of a solid hide stain on my deck. Am I being too harsh? Sorry, I don't think so. If you can't make it like the picture then don't sell it, or change the picture.

This is as close as I can get it to look like exhibit A.



Next step will be to put on the aluminum baffle while I work on installing the tweeter crossover and foam into the other cabinet.

Since you didn't miter the corners, you might have considered a dovetail or box cut.  Maybe for the next pair.  

Here is the binding post plate installed : )



So I learned with tube tots and these that the jumpers used to connect all the posts together effect the sound more than you would like.  Even good ones.  So in a situation like this where you have one speaker cable and a three way speaker with your choice of three places to hook your cable up where do you go?  Is there a difference?  

The answer is yes there is a difference, and you go to the driver that you want to sound the best.  That means the driver that has the highest resolution, which means the tweeter is where you would hook your speaker cables.  Of course if you have three pair of cables you wouldn't need jumpers.  Even with a single amplifier this would probably be an advantage.  

Despite being reversed because we forgot to check when we lifted them onto the stands, the sound is as I remember it which is a huge relief.  As things burn-in it will quickly surpass the original.  In fact after only an hour it already has.  Tomorrow we'll switch the speakers left for right and by the weekend I'll be able to do some serious listening.  

Remember getting bedtime stories before going to sleep as a child?
Steve’s late night progress posts on these speakers reminds me of those.
I look forward to them each night before going to sleep...

They really look greeaaat.
I cannot wait to read more about how they sound and how the sound evolves over time.

Alain

A picture of tonights magic as it happens...



I'm glad to be able to report that all is well!  I say that because up until tonight I was pretty sure I was going to pull the woofers and revisit the crossovers.  A nice source of stress for the past several days.  The sound I had was gone.  I craved my Tube Tots in a bad way, which BTW since I added the coil they have gotten 50% better.  They are like a drug.  Anyway that's another story for a different thread.

The new crossovers as I listened to them on the bench with the midrange in my hand and then with the tweeter in my hand were far sharper as I think I mentioned.  This worried me I'm not going to lie.

So over the past few days I have liked them and actually not liked them several times.  Of course in this room things are unhooked and changed constantly.  I think that's called foreshadowing...  

I had two things working against me... the tubes were lean but I didn't usually care because of the detail, and one of the speaker cables was miss-labeled on one end which means the positive and negative were reversed.  This is a page to Father Murphy that is so overwhelmingly loud that he will come from other planets just to make sure he gets you to hook a channel in phase and then out of phase and then in phase and then out --- all at the precise moment for ideal deception.  So at least 3 times I have listened to the speakers from the work area while they were out of phase.  I never went into the listening room because it sounded like crap from out here...if you get my drift...  I am used to a particular magic that comes from there and mostly I was getting confusing mixed and downright disgusting results.

Tonight I put the good KT88's back into the TORII MONO's and fixed the speaker cable, and guess what?  Murphy left and...

The sound is back : )

In a big way.

Now, you might think "surely he walked in there when it was out of phase and immediately knew... right? "

Actually I did walk in there a few times to see just how bad it actually did sound, and one of the spooky things about these speakers is that they can maintain a locked image in the center when out of phase... not normal.  No idea why, so don't even ask.  

The imaging of these speakers is in another world. I will eventually explain this with great understanding, but right now there's just too much going on.

The sound stage is no better or bigger than anything we have, but the specificity is just sick. I can say this already at this early stage, the tweeter is the best I have heard for precision and really everything else.  It's worth $400 a side and $300 a side for crossover parts...  It actually is.

Scanspeak Rocks.



-Steve

This is really getting me off, because I am now hearing how good these TORII MONO's actually are for the first time really.  It's a real thrill!  Think of it like you built your ultimate hot rod and for the first 5 years you didn't realize the back barrels on carb weren't opening all the way when you floored it... Then you dialed it in with the right linkage and splurged for the right tires while you were at it and still managed to get sideways in 3rd gear for the first time while doing a 11 sec quarter mile... something you only fantasized about until it actually happened! And when it happens on the street it's a white knuckle experience compared to a sticky track. That is how this combination is making me feel and that's after listening to some of the finest audio there is for over 20 years. It's a different kind of high resolution compared to the UFO25 on single driver speakers... in the same league though.  So there you go, two flavors of exotic ice cream.

Steve

Thanks for the road trip Steve.

Things are starting to settle in with the drivers and the first of my large polypropylene foil caps have arrived.  These are the original parts I ordered that got held up,  so I will be replacing all the caps in the crossovers as my next project.

Meanwhile the spike replacement were an epic fail, but it was my own fault.  They come with a self-adhevise which liquifies with pressure and vibration.  I knew to take it off, but got lazy.  I walked in the other night and noticed one speaker had slid more than 2 inches and starting to fall off the stand.



Tonight I cleaned up the mess that made and removed all traces of adhesives.  Then on the top I put some felt with it's own adhesive because I'm either brain dead or I plan to create a shallow hole the same diameter in the bottom of the cabinets to locate the spike replacements and make it
impossible to slide off.  The bottoms are now screwed into the stand so they are hard coupled and can't move.



They are magnetized and the three steel balls allow it to move within the confines of the slightly larger concave hemispherical holes that capture it.  The rubber O-Ring on the center guide of the top section (shown placed upside-down for the picture) damps the movement.

I have faith in this design.  It's so much better than the threaded adjustable spikes that came with the speaker.  Those were almost impossible to adjust perfectly so that the speaker didn't rock. Vibration and the spongy adhesive used in bottom part had me adjusting the spikes  every two days.

This is a set it and forget it approach with far superior results.  Remember the stand isn't going to warp because under that wood is 1/4 inch stainless steel plate that can't move.

A BEFORE and AFTER shot.






And for some reason tonight I got a good picture of the finished speakers.  It looks so much better with the aluminum brushed perfectly flat and painted flat than it did when it was shiny and wavy.

In fact it really looks damn close to exhibit A. : )

So, you were able to get it up on the stand after all!
Nicely done!

You need to change the power output specifications for the Taboo MK4, it says 1w into 4 ohms and 2w into 8 ohms.

HEADPHONE IMPEDANCE      POWER OUTPUT @ HEADPHONE JACK.
Figures double into loudspeakers.
4 ohms
     500 mw
8 ohms
     1000 mw
16 ohms
     1200 mw

https://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm

UPDATE

I think the crossover caps are pretty well burned-in and my biggest worry since deciding to rebuild the crossover with all new parts was what the resulting sound changes will be.  I'm not naive enough to think replacing all the parts with top grade stuff is going to automatically make everything better. There are almost always tradeoffs.

What I liked about the original crossover was 1) imaging. 2) smoothness  3) 1970's bass.  It all added up to a detailed but forgiving sound that was warmed up by the slower bass.   Interestingly, #3 was also the one thing I didn't like about the speakers since most of the single-driver stuff by comparison was more realistic sounding.

So here we are.  I can still remember exactly what it sounded like back in October when I first heard them.  I can play it back in my mind, then and now, and reflect on the changes.

1) Imaging.  Did not change, still very good.

2) Smoothness.  We lost some ground here because resolution is the edge on a sharp blade.  We now have a very sharp blade. So the speaker is less forgiving that it was when it had the spongey crossover parts and sloppy solder and crappy wire.

3) 1970's bass.  Something I enjoyed because I haven't heard it in nearly 50 years, but pretty much totally gone now.  The bass is easily twice as tight and twice as fast as it was.  And as a result it no longer draws attention to itself.  I find the change very refreshing and it has raised my opinion of this particular Scanspeak woofer.


If I was retired and bored, two things that will never happen in my life, I would update the woofer coils in the original crossover and leave everything else alone -- except the solder and wire -- and then I would compare that to what I have now.  I expect that I would probably like it as much or more because it had a touch less resolution and was more forgiving which is a way of trying to say it was slightly more musical.

The current crossover is no disappointment, but my instincts I shared when I tore into the crossover were largely spot on.  BTW, the final cost of two crossovers not including labor or installation was $1K.  Suggesting that when you see a 3 way loudspeaker for sale at a killer price, it probably doesn't have a 1K crossover in it.

So what does this higher level of performance do to an already impressive sound?  Well, the final result so far seems more than worthy.  I'm glad to have them, they make listening to the Zen TORII Mono's a thrill.  In fact the other night while flexing the system for the first time and really seeing how far I could take it, the bass shocked me on one particular track of electronic music, it was splitting the air like a knife and I could feel the concrete slab moving - literally.  I'm not kidding.  That got me off pretty damn hard, I'm not going to lie because nothing has ever quite done that in this way in this room before.  The only thing that has done it in a different way is the Imperial SO subs that I have in here.  Some DECFEST attendees will remember what that sounded like.  It was more than memorable.  But this was actually better, more visceral.  I was standing during this test, which is often the case because I am short enough to get away with that.  But feeling the slab moving under my feet and the crack going through the space was just priceless.

In fairness I should add that this was done at around midnight against the blackest of backgrounds, so the dynamic range was +10dB vs. during the day at work.  It was just grazing 100dB where I was standing.  This is the luxury of having a free-standing building with a listening room in it. You can rock out without pissing anyone off including your beautiful wife : )  And frankly it is the ultimate time to listen to music.  I recommend it highly.

To put that SPL in perspective you need to understand that it's not about SPL.  It's about dynamic range.  Quietest blackest (idle ear drums) to loudest and how fast the rise time is.  So at this time of night the noise floor in the room is about 31dB on an A-weighted scale.  That's 69dB of dynamic range, where most audio systems during the day playing streaming limited music resulting from volume wars, are lucky to have 20dB of dynamic range.

My only regret was ignoring the strong urge to make the crossover external, but honestly that's only because I have more exotic caps I would like to listen to and as you saw, I buried that baby so deep that the only way to make a change is to remove all three drivers, and the binding post plate and both crossover boards in each speaker... an entire weekend.  So it's obvious that the Flat Stacked Cryo Treated Beeswax bypass caps were going to be good enough I made it impossible to upgrade.

It would have cost a fortune to do it in an external crossover with enclosure and the speaker cables for each driver would have made the experience cost $3K or more.  I like the clean look and having it inside the speaker where I can't jack with it... ; ) so I probably made the correct decision, given the fact I have to run a business as well.

Steve


P.S.  Back to the discussion of dynamics... It's a lot like drag racing.  20 dB of dynamic range is like a 16 second quarter mile.  My moms station wagon would do that back in the 1970's.  69dB on the other hand is like being in a top fuel funny car.  It had me grinning from ear to ear that's for sure.  For those of you new to tubes, this is fun because there is ZERO ear fatigue or trauma. What wrecks the ear is bad harmonics from odd order distortions at high SPL. You could literally listen to this for several hours at this SPL and feel like you've never even listened to music that evening when you were done. This is important to understand. You can listen loud without consequences to your hearing when done in these conditions with these amplifiers and cables.

As a final followup to this thread you must be very careful when buying from AliExpress. You can see what was delivered to me and what I had to do to make the speakers right. We got zero compensation for these speakers and sadly 8 pair of other speakers we had also ordered for evaluation were lost in shipping and there has been 6 months of run around with zero compensation or refund. Once my patients clock finally ran out on the missing packages they changed their tune and decided to claim that 7 had been delivered with different UPS numbers and only 1 was missing. Big shock there.

The store name is circled in green.




And the owner's picture

So with some great irony while I update my personal pair of TORII MONO's, I have been using the House Speakers to evaluate the new 300B amplifier that is in development called Sarah.  It has 4 watts with reasonable headroom and turned up as loud as it can go without hearing any distortion, it gives me the perfect listening volume in this room on these 88dB speakers.  This has allowed me to listen to the amp in the high end of its range.

Anyway, the sound is very compelling.  I plan to use them to demo the amp at this years DECFEST.  As well, the TORII MONO's will get some more air time which is to say I expect these speakers to be well liked during the fest.  

I have also used them for several YouTube demos over the summer, so you can check our YouTube Channel and with some headphones get a good feel for what they sound like.

-Steve

appreciated!