Does anyone have any experience?  I am still on the hunt to replace my Rega P1 and have thought it might be fun to go the direct drive route, and at the same time have an absolute classic name/model.


I'd likely pair with an Ortofon 2M Bronze, or Nagaoka MP200.

Archie -

That is good to know about KAB. I had heard about KAB, and wondered about the tone arm fluid damper and how much benefit I would actually see/hear.  

Does the silicone fluid attract dust? How much upkeep is necessary ?



Andrew

That is great to hear.  The GR appeals to me on so many levels.


I've got to get on the wait list for one... I'd imagine it will be at least 4/5/6  months..........even at that, it will still arrive before my Torii V........HAHA!

Is the vendor list on the Technics website? It seemed to offer pretty limited info… most B&H… Of course Google can lead me to many other retailers, but a list is always handy.

I’ve encountered it on at least 10 websites, from mom and pop to big boys like Crutchfield, Hifi Heaven, etc. All back ordered. Im not ordering until years end, so I have time to explore options.

Fantastic!  Thanks for the link!

Awesome!  I think you'll be really pleased with the TT.  Check out the KAB arm damping if you haven't already.  I use a Mitchell Rega clamp with mine.  They are too pricey for what they are but they work really well with the Technics.  The Rega clamp is preferred to the standard clamp since the 1200 spindle is relatively short -- especially with heavy vinyl.  I also replaced the stock mat with a Herbies mat.  That's another good (but not required) tweak.

Those are both things you can add yourself.  The damper clamps onto the arm gimble and the feet just screw into the same  fittings that the stock feet do.  One thing that he offers is the tonearm re-wiring and the inner damping tube.  I doubt the wiring would be worth the expense but the arm damper sleeve might be good to have.  However, you'd have to rewire the arm to insert the tube.  My solution was to get some thin-walled surgical tubing and put it on the outside of the arm.  It was a little challenging to put the tube on but it cleared up the single resonance identified in the 1200G arm.  The 1200GR has several spikes.  Without damping I think every arm will have some resonance somewhere.  There are Internet references to applying heat shrink tubing to the arms and I did just that on my 1200 Mk2 arm but Kevin doesn't think this does any good and I tend to agree given my experience with the latex tube on my G.

The stock feet may be pretty good.  I don't know how the GR feet compare to the Mk2 or G though.  The Iso-noe are markedly superior to the stock Mk2 but the G feet are probably equivalent or better than the Iso-noe.  When I bought my Mk2 (from Kevin with tons of mods) he didn't recommend the Iso-noe footers until I could see how the table was in operation first.  I eventually bought a set years later but only for "insurance."  It's probably worth a call to ask him about some of this.  I'm sure by now that he's very familiar with the GR although he still seems to cater to the Mk series.

In general you have a good plan.  With my G I played around with feedback and found a problem so I fixed it with the tubing.  Granted, to find the problem I had to artificially induce it at 100% gain.

The stock HS is good and has azimuth adjustment which is really nice.  The problem I have with the Technics HS though is that my cartridges have a nub on top which is supposed to sit on a flat surface.  The Technics HS has a recess in it that defeats this.  I do like the Ortofon HS but they too have issues.  I feel like they are too heavy so I drilled holes in mine to reduce the weight.  They also cause the cartridge to ride higher than the stock HS which throws off the height adjustment.  I made shims so that my cartridge now corresponds closer to the tonearm height adjusting ring gage.  Without the shim I couldn't lower my cartridge enough to level the tonearm.  I don't believe in exotic HSs either way.

That looks like a fine cartridge but before you decide, check out KAB's Concord.  I loved mine before I went to Moving Coil.  I have both the STY30 and STY40 and I don't recall hearing much difference on my Mk2 TT.

https://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

The Fritz Geiger stylus seems to be pretty great.

On my Technics table, I had been using the Concorde cart with a Sty 40 for a few years, and thought it sounded great.

Also, a few years ago, I picked up a Soundsmith Carmen MKII, and liked the sound, but the output was a bit lower than the Concorde, and I had hum issues that were aggravating, so I stopped using it.

I recently changed my phono stage setup, and went back to the Soundsmith, and using Steves quality analogy on improvement, the Carmen has given me a solid 30% jump in quality. So much so that I just ordered a lightly used Soundsmith Aida MKII and look forward to its arrival.

For me, Soundsmith is the real deal.

Geno

I have considered the Carmen MK-II in the past- it would definitely max out my cartridge budget but might be worth it from the principle of “cry once”. The retipping costs through Soundsmith are pretty reasonable as well.

With my PS Audio Stellar phonostage, it would lhopefully play well with the Carmen.

Keep in mind, with the 2mV+ output, you'll likely need a boost if you're using a ZP3 or ZP3 level phono stage.

The re-tipping option is important.  To rebuild my MC carts costs as much as I paid for the cart.  I wonder if Soundsmith would retip with a "better" profile when the time came?

That looks good.  The ZP3 is about 42dB and really underpowered since most Decware amps need 2 volts to reach full power.  I think with a 5mV input the ZP3 only puts out around 1 volt.  You'll have to see whether the higher gains give any distortion.  I have a inexpensive NAD PP1 that has both MM and MC settings but the higher gain MC setting really doesn't seem to work well.

Geno, Do you happen to know if they retip other makes of cartridges?  It'd be nice if I could get a new needle on my Ortofon Jubilee (one spent, one in
use and one in the bullpen).  Ortofon rebuilds but they only do a whole new motor, cantilever and diamond.  About $1200!

Thanks Geno.  I sent them an email with my question since their standard service didn't exactly cover what I'd like.  I'm guess less than half of Ortofon which is better than throwing the cart away.

When Ortofon does a job they replace everything but the shell so you really get a brand new cartridge.  That's how I bought my Jubilee's so "cheap."  Less than $1200 for what is essentially a Cadenza Black ($3000).  Since they want more than I paid originally, I'm looking for an alternative.  I'd rather no one goes inside the cartridge so I'm hoping SM can just replace the diamond on my existing boron cantilever.  They offer a "fine line" stylus but I don't know how that compares to the Shibata profile that's on the Jubilee.  The Jubilee uses pure silver windings so the less SM would have to do the more it should stay a Jubilee and not become a franken-cart.

Dammit. I don’t know why that link isn’t going to the right place, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat…

 

Thanks Geno.  I stumbled around the Internet a bit and ended up emailing Andy with http://www.phonocartridgeretipping.com/index.html

I have a Way Excellent II mat 3mmX292.  The 1200G stock mat is 1/8" whereas the 1200MkII mat is 1/4".  For the Ortofon headshells I use, a thicker mat would be nice for VTA but the 1200G spindle isn't very long and with heavy LPs a thicker mat would interfere with my Rega clamp.

My guess is that the GR spindle is similar to the G.  My inclination is to stick with the stock mat thickness.  I did look at my correspondence with Audio Lab and they mentioned a ridge at the edge of the platter so a 285mm mat would be needed.  The G platter is completely flat but if the GR platter has a ridge you may need to consider this.  Audio Lab said the mad needs to sit flat.  (Not sure if you have a G or GR.)

BTW, Audio Lab recommended the 4mm mat but I over ruled them due to the short spindle.

Good mat size info if you haven't seen:  https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/turntable-mats/products/way-excellent-ii...

You may want to wait and see what the platter and spindle are like before getting the mat then.  I think the Mitchell Rega clamp is a good thing to have too.

Archie -

Can't wait to hear about the Jubilee. I get to live vicariously thorough you.

I'll eventually wade into the pricier cartridge waters,  Geno has spoken highly of Soundsmith, but I  will likely be starting in the $500-700 range as my first cart with the GR given that I want new speakers in the next year or two, and that will be 5K on top of the 4.5k for the MKV, and outlay for the GR.  My wallet is smoking...

Thanks for all your advice Archie, and Geno!

7 months after ordering, my GR arrived.  I am having a Dynavector 10x5 MKII fitted to it.  

Very excited to hear the difference from my Rega P1/Ortofon BLue.

Any updated thoughts on the Technics SL-1200GR? My Pioneer PLX-1000, which I quite liked, bit the dust last week, and I'm looking to stay in Direct DriveLand  but less than 2k. Can get a good deal on a GR as an educator through B&H, so thinking it is my best bet.

Anyone's thoughts would be welcomed. I'll be using an Ortofon 2M Black on it. Cheers.

Great! I have an SL-1200MK3D and think it sounds fantastic. The ability to easily swap head shells/ carts is a great benefit. Additionally, the combination of torque and speed stability are miles better than my much more expensive well regarded belt drive turntable. So much so, that I sold it.