I love my Decware gear. That said, they are not, in my opinion, sonically unique or superior enough to in anyway justify a 4 year wait vs other choices on the market.

Oddly, the absurdly long list serves as an effective marketing tool to make a yet longer list. Such is audiophile psychology.

In the beginning of list madness Decware failed to be transparent about wait times.  I cannot speak for if their motivations for doing so were an honest mistake or purposefully deceptive.  That’s between them and the Good Lord.  Things are better now, but in no way fully transparent.

As for Steve’s public response about the list, it’s clear it was written by someone not accustomed to dealing with such situations. An engineer’s response rather than a skilled businessman. The public shaming of a customer was a large mistake.

It is what it is.  A learning experience for all.

There seems to be something about the way I express myself that sets off controversy, sorry about that. My bad. I guess if you don't make it crystal-clear where you're coming from, people infer the worst.

To be clear, I love Decware.

I also think a lot of us are too willing to buy almost anything without even demoing it when we are told it has a big impact on the sound--even if it costs thousands. I dropped 5 figures on Decware equipment on other people's recommendation, not on feedback from my ears. Past a point I think this gets weird.

Audiophilia has the potential to stress people's finances in a pursuit of better sound that never ends. I simply suggested people thinking about a 4-year wait maybe should dump some ice water on their heads and look elsewhere -- or maybe better yet, stick with the system you have. It might be so close to Decware's that it's fine.

And just for avoidance of doubt, I don't think Decware has ever been misleading in its communications. Steve's delight in the results of his tinkering is contagious, that's all. But if you have audiophilia, they can set off lust for a product whose 4-year wait only makes it look even better. This is crazy, unless you have money and remaining lifespan to burn.

This is still on topic, about the "wait list."

RisingSun posted twice and seemed to double down on the notion of misrepresentation.  The careless (and hurtful) use of that word upset me as someone who has been waiting for almost two years and I wanted to share my thoughts and observations:

Discussing current production stats and exchanging notes with fellow Decwarians continues to be just that—estimating wait times for our stuff from time to time so we can level set our collective expectations.  It was not an invitation to make assertions about the Deckerts transparency w.r.t. the waitlist or lack thereof.  To come to the forum that they host and question their motivations is in extremely bad taste and demonstrates a colossal lack of tact.

Decware is not your typical Audio Corp making transistor based tech on assembly lines with access to both large corporate teams and cheap labor—nor are they answerable to investors who demand a quick profit and compel such hi-fi outfits to cut costs, often at the expense of quality.  They also don’t have a Marketing Communications team ready to keep customers apprised of exact wait times.

But what they have is very hard to get right—-a family run business where most members wear multiple hats and work methodically and meticulously to produce high quality products that have touched the life of thousands and continue to sweep customers off their feet.  They are fueled by their love of high fidelity audio, their passion to tinker and innovate, and to make deeply impactful products. Not for nothing, I’d rather have an engineer answer my questions vs. a slick businessman.

No—they are decidedly not a typical hi end audio co — thank goodness!  We’re all better for it.

For folks on the fringes—Yes, the waitlist is long, yes it’s painful.  You be the judge whether you want to weather this storm.  Want to make an informed decision? Go read the reviews on this forum, setup a listening appt, or attend their annual fest- where you can evaluate multiple combinations of amps and speakers.  You’ll be dazed by their hospitality and make some amazing and lifelong connections with fellow members.  

Could they do better? Sure, everyone can improve and adapt.  It just takes time to figure out while staying true to your ideals.  But there’s a way to articulate such feedback, so it comes off as constructive vs. destructive.

Karman

Well said!

The death of many businesses comes down to the choices made, when the company tries to expand rapidly to meet the demand for its product. A small business is especially vulnerable if the right decisions are not made.

There is one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Decware has a lifetime warranty on their products. By trying to ramp up production, if the same quality is not maintained during the expansion, an even larger problem is created in the long term, which would likely lead to its death knell. This would be true for both its reputation and future costs to service the failures of its products.

This is especially true today due to the breaking down of global supply chain and the challenges of sourcing parts.

From what I have seen, Steve has chosen to make his decisions based on maintaining quality control. Even though it sacrifices quantities sold and profit, it is a more sound approach to expansion and increases the odds of this family business continuing to exist in the long run.

For a family owned, small business with a hard earned reputation for quality and value, the choices Steve has made for this expansion is just as sound as the reputation of his products. I personally applaud his decisions he has made from a business perspective.

Agree with several of the previous comments.

There aren't many options for Decware and the wait list/production capacity. There are only so many people who can be hired and keep up the company's level of quality. Expansion of the production space would be ideal, but it's risky and would take some time anyway, and I understand Steve's decision not to pursue this option. Some companies (I think Omega speakers did this) have suspending taking orders while they work through the wait list. I'm not sure what this would help (besides the used market, which is already insane for Decware products). In the meantime, they've streamlined the list in two ways that make it more efficient and accurate: 1) they've eliminated the possibility of someone adding to their order (this prevents the used market from dominating and taking over the new market) and 2) moved the non-amp production to a separate list.

For those struggling to keep track, my items (ordered several months apart) have moved about 36 spots on the list per month (this is consistent with another poster's estimate of 10 amps per week/40 per month; several orders are for 2 amps; I count that as one spot moved). The newer order has moved right at 40 spots per month this year (I assume the extra movement is due to people dropping out).

Well, after 22 months, my SE84UFO shipped today. I ordered just a few weeks before the waitlist topped the 1000 order mark. I think I was 930 to start.

This is my second SE84, and when I ordered the first one in 2017, I think there were like 150 orders. If I remember correctly, it took about a month to get it. Back then, Decware was still audio’s best kept secret

Sometimes I get overwhelmed with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome).  The backlog is a blessing to me. If it wasn't there I would have pulled the plug on at least 4 items this year.  Whew!!  The thing with GAS is that I want it NOW and if I can't have it now then I move along.  Again, depending on where you are coming from, this is a blessing.

Right on Geno! I'm ready for you to stop with the wait list updates and start with the listening impressions. I also want to know if they are still sending t-shirts with the amp?

If anyone is keeping score I waited 5 months and a day for the UFOs I ordered in June '20, back when that seemed like a long time. When I ordered my UFO25s, on Black Friday '21, it took over 2 months just to get on the waiting list. I'm #88 today, I hope to be listening to them by the end of October, so 23 months.

Geno,

Congratulations on your new amplifier. I'm glad you had a short wait, excellent timing with the order on your part. I look forward to your impressions as the amp settles in and your tube rolling experiments begin. Enjoy!

HK

Geno, open baffles with Lii Audio drivers are amazing. Never thought I could get such terrific sound quality for single driver speakers under $2K.

HK

The wait for the wat

Good morning Chris.

That is good to hear. But how are they determining the correct size of the shirt? I was not asked that.

Best,

Geno

Mental note: Tell Sarah my shirt size in advance.  If they only have XL, I might end up framing it on my wall. Hehe

Thx Geno, that will most likely be the outcome if it’s too big.

Two milestones today:

In double digits now (97 last time I checked)
Finally paid off the amp

I can see the finish line…

That's awesome Kamran!

If you are 97 that would make me 87ish. It looks like there is a hiccup in the UFO25 production, hopefully it is brief.

CAJames: Are you reassessing your timeline yet? Transferring some of my optimism your way  :)

I made it to the first page !  [smiley=beer.gif]
1 year and 8 months later. Let's see if I get my amp still in 2023.

Congrats! As James notes the supply chain issues will have a hand in your delivery time. When I hit the first page it was about three months before my amp was delivered. You're closer than you were!

B*tch

Awesome! (That you ordered after me but your amp will be done first )

LOL James. I’ll take it (no pun intended). For a fleeting second last week, I thought about asking Sarah to delay it until after you got yours, but recall what I said about fleeting…

If it’s any consolation, I don’t see my self using the amp on arrival due to this never ending remodeling project—will most likely park the box in the basement until the project is over. Haven’t listened to music in my rig for 10 days…

Haven’t listened to music in my rig for 10 days…

Ouch! Kamran, that sounds rough.  Hopefully, you will be back up and listening soon. I look forward to your review when that happens.

Thx guys. This is my better half’s dream project to get the house remodeled  including gutting our kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, and adding additional closets,  pantry space and extending the sq. footage a tad. It’s a lot and I figured if she can put up with my time and investment for hifi, then I can put up with helping her finish the project on time. The only exception is that I was allowed to attend Decfest next month!

For now, I’m just enjoying audio vicariously through you guys.

You're close and your patience is about to be rewarded! I ordered in April last year and by my calculations, I should get mine in early Dec next year (about 2 yrs 7m). At the current rate of production, ordering today should see them arriving in early Dec 2027.

I just received my SE84 UFO today. I ordered Black Friday of 2021, so 1 year 10 months and some change from order to delivery. It seems the one year club t-shirts are no longer a thing as one was not included in the box. Kind of would have been cool, but I ordered an amp not a T-shirt so no big deal. Just started my first itineration of burn in and well pleased so far.