Wild Burro Audio Labs has recently announced the release of a new Betsy driver .....

For quite a while now, there has been speculation about the possible creation of an Alnico magnet version of the Betsy full range driver.

This is now a reality .....  !!!



I have auditioned the Alnico drivers in a pair of Betsy baffles and was able to do an A/B comparison with a pair of the original Betsy baffles.

The new drivers are good ..... really good.

The owner of Wild Burro Audio Labs simply states that the new drivers are more "nuanced" than the original.  What I and a couple of my audio buddy / customers heard was very impressive.
More detail and air than the original with the characteristics many music lovers have come to expect from an Alnico magnet driver.

The Alnico drivers will be available in all Caintuck Audio Betsy baffles and will add 220.00 to the original pricing.
This is a very reasonable price for Alnico driver loudspeakers.  

By no means does this make the original Betsy drivers obsolete or less of a value.  Owners of the original Betsy baffles will continue to enjoy the excellent musicality and value of these speakers.

However, it's good to have options .....

I'm expecting a shipment of the new drivers before the end of November.

Website page here

Happy listening,
Randy

Hi Jeff,

I'm still disappointed that you were not able to attend Decware Fest 2018 ...  

We sure did have a blast the previous year .....  

The new Alnico drivers really do sound good.

An interesting thing is that when I had the prototype pair in my listening room and was able to A / B them with a pair of originals (in identical baffles), they sounded noticeably more efficient than the originals using the same amplifier and volume settings.

The owner of WBAL tells me that they actually have a lower sensitivity on paper ..... but all three of my audio buddy / customers agreed with me that they played louder at the same volume setting.

So ..... should I believe "what's on paper" or my own lying ears ?  

Two of my three buddies like the new drivers well enough that they will be buying them.

I'm really excited about this development because it gives the option of a fine sounding speaker at a true giant killer price with the original Betsy and a slightly upscale product with the Alnico version which still doesn't break the bank .....

Best wishes,
Randy

Jeff

Hi. I may have to take you up on your offer to trial your Betsy's.  ;) I'm in Pasadena.
I've been wanting to try a set of OB speakers, specifically Randy's Betsy's, for a while to see if they are for me.
My system consists of a ZP3 and Bifrost running through a ZR2 to two bridged UFO2's. I  believe the Betsy's are about 92db. I'm wondering if the UFO2 is a good match with the Betsy, or would I need more power?

Jeff,

  I'd also like to give those Betsy's a listen. Have heard nothing but good things about them over the last few years! Perhaps we can finally have that listening session at your place. Would be a good chance to hear your modded ZMA and my UFO25 head to head.

Ace

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Jeff, you're scaring me .....  

Remember ..... I'm just a poor old Caintuck hillbilly wood butcher .....

Best wishes,
Randy

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Hi Tal,

The Betsy drivers have a sensitivity rating of 92.4 DB.
However, something I was not aware of until Steve Deckert shared it with me is that a driver in a dipole configuration effectively gains about 3 DB.

That explains a lot.

In the audio storefront I operated in 2016, the main listening room was 17' x 35' with an 11.5' ceiling.  A pair of Betsy baffles powered by my single SE84UFO filled the room with music ..... with no compression, clipping or other nasties that I could detect .....

The lack of any crossover components and the "dipole boost" makes them very efficient.

A very common reaction from most folks hearing the Betsy baffles for the first time is "I can't believe all of that music is coming from those two small baffles" .....

Happy listening,
Randy

Jeff

I'll shot you a PM to see if we can arrange a time

Cheers

Tal

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There we go. Those are some fine looking baffles.  I really dig the two-tone.  

 I am a dreamer Randy  ::)

But... I am also a realist so if wood is hard to come by, lets work with what you've got.  Of course we are a couple months away from the Alnico's landing so maybe we'll get lucky and come across something extra special  :o

But nothing as dubious as that bit-murdering Bubinga!

Yes sir!!  The fun meter is pegged to the right!  I am really looking forward to this my friend.  

Has anyone purchased the Alnico Betsy’s yet?  I’m looking for an opinion on how they compare to the regulars.

Good morning Randy. Hope things are going well. I’m so happy with the regular driver, I can’t imagine changing anything. But you know how this Hobby is...

I certainly appreciate the offer to have someone contact me with their impressions. That would be great.

Best,

Geno

Thanks Steve. I have 2 of Randy’s 12” bass baffles, so no problem there. I think I’ll go ahead and order a pair. Hell, at that price, why not!

I’m glad that you posted this Randy, because Rogers email was in my Junk email folder for some reason. I just read it and responded to him. Thanks for your impressions too!

Best,

Geno

So I have an update on the Alnico drivers, they are nearing a full break-in at this point and finished better in the bass than I had estimated they would.  I am happy to report the overall balance ends up the same as the original betsy drivers and that was important, because those drivers have something wonderful to share with the world.

These new Alnico drivers, are the same driver, just a different magnet material. The resolution and presence of the Alnico is perhaps nearly double the original driver, yet it somehow managed after break-in to maintain a warm character. Simply Amazing.  

I don't remember what amplifier I was using, other than it was probably not burned-in and when combined with fresh out-of-the box alnico drivers I did not have an out-of-body experience. I could not even listen to them at first. Fast forward to the third or fourth try and putting in my well seasoned 25th Anniversary Zen Triode amplifier and suddenly the weight and body I felt was lacking was there and in good balance. Simply amazing.  

I have to admit that the combination of Alnico magnet and open baffle have shoved the playback ecstasy of this amplifier to yet ANOTHER level. It's simply astounding what these damn things do.  

The sound is so good it has inspired me to create some 15 inch bass baffles using vintage alnico 15 inch drivers to see if I can wean myself off the DNA2's and Bob's HR-1's. ; ).  I already have the woofers... probably worth around 3 grand -- the universe brought them to me for $150.   so it would be an insult not to use them.  

On a final note, I have to say -- and the way these Alnico drivers finished in these baffles just proves it -- that there is something special going on with Randy's baffle design.  By the math there is no way these baffles can reproduce the full rich bass response that they do.  So how is it happening?  

Tonight I decided to get the cad program out and draw the baffle exactly so that I could see what it looked like if it were perfectly scaled up for a fifteen-inch driver.  Lots of measuring, and interestingly, lot's of prime numbers and ratios discovered here.  If you do research into ancient harmonic architecture you will learn that certain shapes and mathematical ratios create particular energies.  When I see these ratios in the betsy baffle shape and hear the warm full bass that they reproduce I have to wonder...

In any case, the final analysis is that the new betsy baffles with a single 8 inch alnico diver in them can be fully enjoyed on their own without bass augmentation.  This is my prerequisite for all Decware speakers and or recommended speakers.

Taking it a bit further, they are so outrageous they dare to compete for top bidding in the Decware listening room.  Despite the DNA2's and or the HR-1' having probably two octaves lower bass, the midrange of these is so realistic and well-rounded that I am no longer sure which is actually the better speakers.

-Steve

I received my Alnico’s this afternoon. Like Steve said, they were a little harsh at first, but after just an hour, the sound was already getting much better.  Now about 3 hours in I am getting really excited about how they should sound 100 hours in. Loving it!!!

Hey Randy! Check it out! I took your advice, called Douglas at Wild Burro to get Alnicos for a pair of my existing baffles, and he told me that a group of Betsy owners were cutting the dust caps out of the Alnico drivers, and replacing them with phase plugs. I gave it a try, and WOWZER! Very dynamic! Anyway, I'm still breaking them in, but for $335.00, $10.00 or so for shipping, $4.00 worth of materials, and about 15 minutes worth of labor (not counting priming and painting the phase plugs), I'm WAY impressed. For anyone interested in doing the mod, Online Metals is a good source for round stock, and they don't mind cutting and shipping small orders. The phase plug in the picture is 7/8", but I could have easily gone to 1", and still had room for the former/cone to move. The best part? You don't need adhesive for the phase plugs, as long as you use steel. Aluminum wouldn't work - needs to be magnetic.
Anyway, thanks for the tip.

Randy

Hey, Geno. As far as the difference in sound from the stock to the modded Alnico, I may not be the best person to answer that, as I didn't really let the stock driver break in before I modded it. I got too jazzed and impatient after hearing Douglas from Wild Burro talk about the phase plug mod. You might want to touch base with him. I will say that the modded version seems more open and dynamic, but part of that could be the lack of hours on the stock driver.

As far as the mod itself, it's really simple. I just used an Xacto knife, and very carefully (with what Douglas called "gentle hands") cut the dust cap out as close as I could to the former (inner cone). If your knife is as sharp as it should be, you just need to be careful not to cut into the former. Once the dust cap is removed, you will see the front side of the Alnico magnet. That's the silver that you can see around the phase plug in the picture of my mod. Get two pieces of 1" diameter round stock steel (doesn't have to be anything special), each 1.5" long. (I got mine from Online Metals for about $4.00 + shipping). Those will stick directly to the Alnico magnet, and still allow the cone(s) to move. That's about all there is to it. You don't have to sand/prime/paint the steel plugs, unless you're picky like I am about aesthetics. As a matter of fact, I'm probably going to give the 7/8" plugs to a friend of mine who wants to mod his Betsy drivers, and replace mine with 1" plugs. Those will look more in proportion, and I can use a flat paint instead of the satin finish that I used. Looks too shiny for the rest of the driver, in my opinion.

Good luck,
Randy

Hi Geno,

Nope ..... I have been kind of busy filling existing orders and trying to get a couple of pairs of two tone hardwood baffles built to have a small "inventory" ready to ship .....

If memory serves me, there has been some discussion in the past (on the DIY forum) about adding a phase plug to the original Betsy drivers.
I gave it some thought but never got around to it.
Maybe in the near future .....

I have a short list of possible "tweaks" for the Betsy baffles on the Questions page of my website ..... I guess this should be added to the list. I add the caveat to the tweaks list that I neither endorse nor discourage modifications ..... since different mods can result in different results for each music lover .....

If you and Randy are hearing benefits, that is a good thing .....

Happy listening,
Randy

I have used a 12" Alnico driver from commonsenseaudio (Audio Nirvana)... both in a large ported box and in two different open baffle designs.. one of them Randy's exact barrel baffle size/dimensions for the Betsy's with a bigger hole.
Can't really find much to complain about in either case.

Tnight I am listening to another iteration of the open baffle array I've been working on all Spring featuring the solid hardwood Betsy Open Baffle speakers with Alnico drivers supplemented by a scaled up pair of solid hardwood Betsy Baffles for 15 inch low frequency drivers with the goal of seeing if I could wean myself off the DNA2 and HR1 speakers which are my current favorites when I'm not listening to the ZOB and Imperial Horn combo.  

What I heard tonight had just destroyed that reference.  I've never heard the exquisite combination of anything sound this good before. This will be demoed at this years DECFEST in October so you can hear it for yourself.  

Tonight I heard at the beginning of each bar in a particular jazz/blues recording a snare hit that I have never even heard from my own drum kit over 10 years time.  It was so explosive and staccato with such a dead stop that I have never heard anything like it.  It was like a dopamine high that you didn't realize was possible from music.  Holy crap...  Boy, I'm having way too much fun.  The speed of this system is simply unbelievable.  The 25th Anniversary amplifier and preamp sound like you are listening to 100's of watts.  It's just crazy.  

Last night my son-in-law found a bunch of reel-to-reel tapes in a dumpster and rushed them right over to me.  They turned out to be live 2-track masters of the Peoria Symphony Orchestra from 1965 where the all tube tape machine was set up in the audience with two microphones. It sounds so frikin real that I had a really hard time processing it. You know when sound quality and recording excellence cross that line where it suddenly sounds and feels real, a fight or flight instinct comes over you and you have to shake your head and press pause while you wait for your feet to touch the ground again!  Best way I can describe it is like having a reverse-lucid dream.

Anyway when the time is right I'll make a video of these speakers and I think you'll have little problem hearing the magnified effect of Betsy open baffles on what we would love to think is possibly the worlds best amplification.

Steve

slide the O-Ring over the phase guide until it almost hits the cone when the cone is a max excursion.

Thanks for the advice, Steve. I'm leaving on an out-of-state trip Monday morning, but when I get back in a few weeks, I'm going to spend some time with it.

Hey Geno, I'm surprised by the amount of toe-in that works for you with the open baffle. I have mine essentially parallel with the wall behind them - just toed in an inch or so, but your room may need more. My soundstage collapses, and my center image (which the Betsys do so well) suffers the more that I toe them in. I will say, though, that I don't have the best audio setup at this point. I'm looking to create a better space for listening when I get moved, and settled in.

Randy

Also, with the strong Alnico magnet, I did not need to solder a washer onto the tube pins. The pins hold the tube in place just fine. And I off-centered the tube as Steve suggested.

Hey Bottlehead,
What an awesome sounding trip...just getting to Ocean Shores was a trial.
I have a set of the original drivers still in the box and  need some inspiration to get them built.
When you get back and you were so inclined I'd love to wrangle an audition invite.

Dana

I'm hoping that some of you audio wizards can help with a phase-plug problem that I'm having on my Betsy Alnicos. I took Steve's suggestion to use tubes for phase plugs, and because the magnets are so strong, I tried  sticking the tube in place just by the pins. That works great until you want to give it some volume, then they buzz and vibrate out of place. Another of Steve's suggestions was to solder the tube pins to a copper-coated washer. I looked all over for such an animal, but drew a blank. So I soldered a copper washer to an uncoated steel washer, and soldered the tube pins to the copper washer, as the picture shows. Evidently my concept is out of whack. The first thing that I noticed was that they didn't want to seat securely against the magnets. Almost like when you try to push south poles or north poles of two magnets together. And when I tried to play the system, they were all over the place, buzzing and jumping around. I'll post a picture so that you can see what I'm talking about, but any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Randy

Bottlehead,
I would take a wooden dowel the same size as your plug and the length of the pins and drill holes in it for the pins. Then I would epoxy glue them together. Then at the bottom of the wooden dowel I would put a good size flat screw in the middle or 3 smaller screws equally spaced. That should hold the phase plug in place.