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Year End CDApS Meeting (Read 64580 times)
Donnie
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #100 - 02/03/17 at 00:41:04
 
I'm wondering what a Betsy-Eminence Alpha combo would sound like?
It would be pretty cost effective unless you went bonkers and doubled the alpha's up! I can't imagine anyone crazy enough to do something like that.
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ProggRob
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #101 - 02/03/17 at 02:47:07
 
Seikosha, Pal, LR and Maddog... the Decware forum steps up once again!  You guys rock.

I think it bears repeating that I will keep my Hawthornes for bass (and head banging) purposes, so stereo bass is in play with one Rythmik plate amp and 2x 15" Augies per channel.  No issues there.  I can even move them around for best integration as MD suggests.

The issue is now whether or not to fill out the highs.  Depending on cost, I may decide to pass on it for now.  However, having owned the Hawthornes I am kind of desperate for better extension... I guess we'll see.  I really want to keep the cost down and save the extra money for other goals, like a dedicated power line (maybe with its own ground) and diffusion.

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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Denefrips Terminator -> Black Cat Setsuna XLR -> LTA Ultralinear Integrated -> Black Cat Setsuna SC -> Betsy Alnicos
Bass: 4x Hawthorne Augies w/ 2 Rythmik amps
Power: TWL 7+ and Digital, UberBUSS, Furutech Outl
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Dave1210
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #102 - 02/03/17 at 12:26:13
 
Some light reading on open baffles for everyone to enjoy!

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/kih-40-openly-baffled/

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Palomino
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #103 - 02/03/17 at 18:33:29
 
Good article.  Thanks Dave.

In the comments, it references a youtube OB video.  While I think that particular recording would sound pretty "big" on any speakers the video does get across the OB sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozT41TKqRM
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #104 - 02/03/17 at 21:31:13
 
"Rob, I have seen various configurations that Randy has built including floor to ceiling multi-driver monsters.  I am sure he could build you whatever fits your needs."

Since you asked .....



Larger photo here.

I have no intention on adding anything to this thread ..... since I am slightly biased toward the Betsy baffles I build, except to say that I prefer a pair of Betsy baffles and a pair of Augie drivers in separate baffles to the speakers in the photo above .....

Happy listening,

Randy
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Palomino
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #105 - 02/03/17 at 21:40:28
 
That's the photo Smiley

Why do you prefer them separate?  Positioning options as suggested above?
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #106 - 02/04/17 at 01:52:42
 
Hi Palomino,

I really didn't want to interject myself in this thread for obvious reasons.
Since I sell a speaker that uses the Betsy driver it's impossible for me to not have a slight bias ..... even though Caintuck Audio is a hobby as much as a business.

The audio hobby is very much dependent on personal taste and preference .... so the following comments are to be understood as such.

The speakers in the photo use two Hawthorne Audio Augie 15" drivers, two Visaton B200 drivers and a Heil Air Motion Transformer in an enhanced MTM configuration.
The Augie drivers were powered by duel plate amplifiers ..... one for each channel.

Anyone familiar with the Heil AMT driver knows that the high frequencies are excellent, probably world class. So, it shouldn't be expected that the top end of the Betsy driver will match the extension and air of the AMT.
Having said that, when listening to the Betsy baffles without any additional help on the top end, I don't feel that I'm missing anything. The top end is extremely natural sounding and things like bells and chimes sound very good as well as the upper harmonics of other instruments.

It has been my experience that it's very easy to be impressed by the "wow factor" of any component during the initial listening session, but long term listening often reveals that too much of anything creates listener fatigue. The natural sounding top end of the Betsy driver contributes to long listening sessions and that is important to me.

I have been a big fan of "low boy" open baffles for a long time.
Being able to look over the tops of the baffles and still have a full height image and sound stage is an amazing illusion and it allows me to focus on the music rather than the equipment.

The speakers in the photo produced a BIG sound .....  but as crazy as it sounds the little Betsy baffles produce a sound that is nearly as big and I can move the Betsy baffles with two fingers.
Moving those big baffles required two men and a boy .....

I prefer to have the bass drivers on separate baffles for a couple of reasons.
First, it allows me to keep the main baffles under 24" in height.
Second, while it is certainly possible to mechanically isolate the drivers on a single baffle to reduce vibration affecting the Betsy drivers ... it is easier in my opinion to just put them on separate baffles.
It has already been mentioned that being able to move the bass drivers around is useful for optimizing the sound from them. I have found this to be true.

I know that many folks are fans of "nearfield" listening and many people do not have the luxury of a large listening room, but unless a person has heard the Betsy drivers 10 to 12 feet from the listening seat they really haven't heard them.
Truthfully, at 15 to 20 feet from the baffles the sound resembles a live event.
The sound I was getting in the 17' x 35' room at my recently closed storefront was so good that many visitors didn't believe the music was actually coming from "those little speakers".

As a final thought, there is something about the sound of a single full range driver that is special ..... especially when powered by an amplifier like a Decware SET.
The coherency can be jaw dropping .....

To make the system truly full range, the bottom end needs to be enhanced ..... but that is easily and inexpensively done with an Augie or Eminence Alpha driver on a third baffle and a plate amp. A 12" Alpha driver works as well as a 15" Alpha ..... just a different sound. The 15" goes lower, the 12" is tighter and faster.

So ..... there's my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Whether a person buys speakers from me or builds their own using the Betsy drivers, the results are a lot of musical bang for the buck.

Happy listening,


Randy

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CEC TL5N belt drive CD transport
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N DAC / Streamer
Decware SE84UFO amplifier
Caintuck Audio Betsy Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii Silver-10 Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii 15 Open Bass Baffle
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #107 - 02/04/17 at 03:12:04
 
Here is a photo of my current setup in my home listening room :



Larger photo here.

The 12" Alpha drivers in the baffles to the outsides of the room are crossed over at 100 HZ with a low pass filter like Steve had set up with the SO Imperials at Decware Fest 2016.

An SE84UFO is driving everything and the sound is superb .....

The room is 16' x 26' with an 8' ceiling.

Happy listening,

Randy
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CEC TL5N belt drive CD transport
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N DAC / Streamer
Decware SE84UFO amplifier
Caintuck Audio Betsy Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii Silver-10 Open Baffles
Caintuck Audio Lii 15 Open Bass Baffle
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Palomino
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #108 - 02/04/17 at 14:45:01
 
Do you mean that hobby that got your Betsys on the Stereo Times Most Wanted List for 2016? Wink. I always like to mention that fact because of all your contributions to this forum.   I hope that for every poser like me that thinks he can run a router that there are 20 more who will do the smart thing and just buy your proven design.

I do recall that the further back from the Betsys the better at the fest.  This may not work as well for me given my room size.  At my cottage they may work much better as it's a much longer and taller room.

I also can relate to the low profile design having advantages.  It took me some time to put my baffles out of my mind when I first built them.  You actually think you can hear them until you put it out of your mind.

Anyway, thanks for popping in and sharing.  I will continue to play around with open baffles.  I don't think there is any going back to monkey coffins for me.
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Donnie
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #109 - 02/04/17 at 17:02:43
 
Palo,
No more "Monkey Coffins" for me either.
But I am thinking about Snake Coffins.
I have been looking at Sonotube concrete forms more and more and a plan is starting to come together in my head.
Something round, the ends cut at 45 degrees, parallel to each other, mounted on a 45 degree cradle.
It is the time of the year when I start getting the itch to build something.
I wonder how to finish a cardboard tube to my satisfaction.....?
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ZYGI
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #110 - 02/05/17 at 00:00:05
 
Donnie,

You veneer it!
Zygi
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Palomino
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #111 - 02/05/17 at 15:32:35
 
Well I got the Betsys from El Presidente.  Got them to work in my old baffles and gave them a listen.  As maddog said nothing seems to be missing.  They are not as pinpoint precise as the Tang Bands but I do feel they are more musical and forgiving.  

When I put them in I at first thought they were a little flat but again I think that is the transition from the hot tang bands.  I am listening to some hit hat cymbals right now and all is fine.

I do think that Randy is right in that these are better near the floor.  I think the cast a bigger soundstage from that position than at ear level. Overall an enjoyable and non fatiguing driver.  I have caught myself Toe tapping on several occasions.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
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Palomino
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #112 - 02/05/17 at 15:44:25
 
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Donnie
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Re: Year End CDApS Meeting
Reply #113 - 02/05/17 at 17:47:52
 
Nice bolts!
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