An audio system/room is just so complex, the variables can be huge! That is why I am not comfortable "recommending" anything!
That said, theory, beliefs, and incomplete use of words aside…if a system/room is relatively clean and capable of resolving fine detail, the benefits of noise reduction and how evenly it effects the frequency spectrum can be easily heard.
To this end, where even one tube choice or cable can limit transparency and resolution, resolving impediments can clearly improve our musical experience. Associated, with so many ways to introduce noise (vibration and electronic), the likelihood of better sound through solving noise is a big player.
Signal complexity and integrity compromised by noise is more a given than an anomaly, and about anything can contribute...from design weaknesses in each component, noise filter, foot …Qualities of resistors, caps, wires, dielectrics, connectors...ICs, PCs...Fat single wire speaker cables that introduce slurring...Vibration and electronic noise... Room based amplification and attenuation issues...You name it. Even with good equipment, there can be dozens of unnoticed impediments to optimal presentation, and when added up, these can easily define what can or cannot be heard in a system.
I recently changed the IEC inlet on the Torii, and the volume pot on the CSP3, and those alone made my system notably more resolving and quiet.
If the resolution is not there to begin with, and/or if there is slurring and distortion of any information, we lose (or never hear) deeper nuance, complexity and speed. And if enough areas are compromised, restricting spaciousness and resolution, the cumulative effect could be enough to make it hard to hear subtler changes brought about by feet, or power filters, or anything else with subtler effect than the qualities and magnitude of noise needing resolution.
Alternately, if space and resolution are mostly there, source to speakers, empty background enhances resolution and definition...micro dynamics, subtle harmonics and ambient information, subtle textures and nuance...all the little things that make it possible to hear a quiet breath of a singer, subtler parts in complex material we could not hear before, the wood of a cello vibrating, the sound of the skin of drum, the physical sensation of a clean bass note after the sound of the finger plucking the string, the vibration of string on neck, the side and back wood of a bass, the breath of the player...exceptional soundstage saturation, etc
Clarifying noise can allow the sense that there is no real beginning or end to a note ….more complete, natural, and “organic.”
I don’t think the level of transparency I am pointing to is possible without an exceptional source, exceptional cables and amps, exceptional tubes, exceptional speakers, exceptional vibration and electronic noise mitigation, an exceptional room, and all of the above carefully tuned individually and together.
Feet from ExperienceEvery foot I have tried, including Archie’s, has a sound. Especially less transparent ones tend to sound like the material they are made of...thick Sorbothane blobs, mushy and uneven...closed cell foams (the few I tried) a little veiled and thick in places, while clearer in others, and a little “foamy” ...Herbie’s Tenderfeet, good spectrum balance, but soft/warm/thick sounding, a bit “rubbery.” I can believe there may be good variations using these materials, but my 1st experiments didn’t stimulate pursuing them.
The most effective feet solve vibration in a complete, neutral and transparent way. And there is little doubt that most serious foot developers think they have done that!
Yet effective feet sound different. This indicates how varied and subtle the effects of noise can be, how different materials and designs pretty obviously effect the sound, and how personal sound preferences effect materials and designs used. Under these conditions, how can feet be any different than any other component, cable, room treatment, etc...Optimal sound is inevitably about tuning all that makes up the system/room sound.
Less-than stellar CommunicationIf the interest is in finding better transparency in our systems, do broad judgements and accusations intended to dismiss something really help, especially without having all the scientific or theoretical details from which to draw these conclusions? If words like “grounding,” from feet rankle, why not ask the makers what they meant using the term? Obviously, if a foot resolves vibration, the energy has to be transformed and/or go somewhere, be it heat, “to ground” or whatever. Finally, innovators not explaining (or even understanding) their theory fully can be a drag, but it does not necessarily mean the theory or product are irrelevant.
I think reaction to ideas and words being enough to throw out a potentially good tool (or developer) without clarified investigation, and/or hearing, is unfortunate. If it is good, and can’t be checked out due to biases, who loses?
Obviously science does not approach human perception, and though we may not fully understand what makes a good foot, if we can hear it, we can make design or placement decisions based on hearing.
And when one can hear something, and others cannot, why is it so easy for those who don’t hear it to call it “snake oil,” or psycho acoustic delusion? Is it not equally possible that system impediments or imbalances can reduce transparency and resolution enough to cause subtle things not to be heard?
If I can’t hear something in my system, it stimulates exploration.Of course there are scammers, but realistically, most innovative audio developers started as audiophiles, their considerable explorations in listening and DIY leading them to become pro. From them, less-than-ideal communication of thoughts does not stimulate “the judge” as much for me, especially within a context of good reviews and if similar things have worked for me in the past. I just don’t see the benefit of jumping first to skepticism if real answers are the goal.
Transparency and HearingHere, as things become cumulatively cleaner and more resolving, changes are generally more noticeable, though sometimes subtler if they are somewhat redundant. And considering all the noise from our house power and appliances, from the audio system, and mechanical vibrations...It is hard for me to imagine, but I suppose it is conceptually possible to have a system/room so free of noise, that noise filtering and feet have little or nothing to solve, rendering them irrelevant. Maybe this is what you are experiencing Raven.
But I suspect most systems are like mine, where after things are clean enough to hear deeper subtleties, more refinement reveals subtle changes more.
Finally, the last few percent are as important to me as the first 95 in terms of the sense of “real.” There is nothing like the fine detail empty space can allow to “finish” the sound (assuming relatively complete resolution is not truncated elsewhere). I am coming to the conclusion that for deeper refinement, subtle noise (and other resolution maskers) that are hard to notice until gone, can add up to pretty big impediments.
Speed has become a reliable read toward this end. If a noise change makes the pace feel slower, the slowed pace is caused by sounds coming and going more quickly from within a greater “black,” revealing more subtle note beginnings and ends with more space between. But this reflection of better noise management and high level resolution only shows up here when the system is revealing enough to begin with.
It is clearly relative to the levels of noise we begin with as to whether something working in subtle areas can do enough to hear the change.MadscientistI have tried a number of madscientist things over a few years, and as he says, the effects depend a lot on placement and size. In my experiments, they are sometimes quite subtle, sometimes pretty noticeable, sometimes good sounding, and sometimes not as good. But in the right places, they all are capable of clarifying the signal musically here. Just today, I noticed some lack of clarity I attributed to burnin, then I found one of the discuss sticks had fallen off one negative speaker terminal/cable connection on the amp. Replaced, the clarity I was missing returned.
Not necessarily night and day, here they are meaningful, especially for those difficult last few percent.
Clean PowerRelative to noise and hearing, I think I have what is likely an exceptionally clean electrical environment. Helping resolution, this helps hearing.
Having sensitivities to electronic pollution, and loving sound, over many years I have tried numerous variations on noise reduction...both whole house, and system specific. And the house ones help the system. One of my first EMF/RFI filters clarified my sound while being plugged into the adjacent kitchen circuit (though in the same room as the audio.) Now, coming at it from many angles has a progressive and cumulative effect.
Dedicated circuits and power regenerators can definitely help, but from my explorations it would be a miracle for these to be enough for optimal resolution. My PSAudio P5 on its own is incapable of ultimate transparency, even with measured pre regen THD usually around 2.5 and the final .1. Finally, with a lot of effort adjusting it, filtering my source components separately, optimized power cords, and by carefully using various noise filters, my power management seems quite transparent….But the stock P5, with normal settings, and PSAudio’s best cable feeding it, was simply too dull and colored in my system and had to be carefully adapted to utilize the voltage regulation I needed from it. Since most folks like PSAudio regenerators right off, and on their own, I am guessing the P5 weaknesses showed up for me because my house and system power were extra clean before the P5.
Back to Feet!From Archie referring to madscientist BlackPods:
Quote:These are essentially a "spike" and would couple between the component and stand. That they work may be a credit to Murphy's Law and some good upstream engineering but this "channeled to earth" kind of explanation rings false, in my opinion.
Language from the MadScientist site with his take on issues with vibration control:
"There are many theories as to how to control vibration in audio systems, along with a plethora of footers, stands, supports and so on. Two themes that come up regularly are 'rigid pointy things' like cones and spikes, and 'squashy rubbery things' like damping pads, etc.Both of these suffer big problems.
Firstly, resonances. Just about any stiff, pointy device (cone or spike) is going to have a slew of resonances of varying Q factors - in other words they 'ring like a bell', usually at several different frequenicies, and this will pass through to the system. The effect can be overly etched treble with some notes being particularly screechy.
Second problem is 'delayed energy release' - anything that is springy or rubbery is going to store energy and release it at a later time, smearing the music. Often using soft footers results in muddy, soft music that lacks bite.
Combining a spike/cone device with damping does not solve anything, and just gives you both problems. This is why damping and isolation efforts are often akin to a crap shoot." [end quote]
Sounds pretty real and logical, and similar to what you talk about Archie. Why he is vague as to why his feet are different, only he can answer, but he was obviously out to solve real issues. He is also clearly caught by proprietary nervousness, resulting in limitted explanations, which in turn contributes to suspicion. But that he is not clear on technical solutions from his discoveries, and that he uses a lot of tongue and cheek, these do not rule out his audio intelligence, his extensive experimentation, or the potential for quality from his discoveries.
“Essentially spikes,” for me would require more explanation. I think of spikes as spikes...one material, typically metal, cone shaped, pointy...and for the most part, I have not liked them.
Though the BlackPods are hard, they appear to have 5 layers of what look like three different composites, finished with an embedded ball of either Tungsten Carbide or Zirconia. We don't know what the layers are, or if there is anything else hidden in the casts, but metals, magnets, composite choices, densities of layers, minerals, and who know what, may contribute... From back in the day, I seem to recall his discusses utilizing minerals, presumably drawing off/absorbing, and transforming/dissipating unwanted energy....noise...vibration.
Finally, it seems vibration and noise are totally interrelated. Mechanical vibration causes noise and distortions, and noise/distortions cause vibration. Since BlackPod feet came after his noise reduction discusses, and since it looks to me like he is likely using similar materials in the feet, I guess the electronic noise tech may be helping to resolve both ambient electronic noise and sheerly mechanical vibrations in the feet. This may help explain the "transparent" resolution these feet can help create, at least here.This also points to listening...the bottom line.
For me, hearing is finally the only real test. And I hear most everything here, implying few serious impediments to resolution, transparency, and neutrality. This includes the feet I use. They must be good enough in their individual and cumulative effects to resolve noise and reveal subtle beauty.
One could get caught by words and ideas that are less than fully fleshed out forever. But no matter the maker, if we can “tune” with their feet to reduce noise evenly, and without losing something on the way, we win. Take the noise away in complete ways, and you can hear the space and subtler information that distortions were masking.
To this end, Archie’s tuned platform (CSP3) and the BlackPods (Torii) individually improved my sound over isocups. Both had similar overall effects, sounding good at solving noise across the spectrum. I had tuned both, the platform with homemade feet, to my tastes for “no sound,” and the Pods via placement under the Torii for best musical resolution (with individual feet under the Torii, the sound can vary quite a lot depending on placement).
But here is the catcher...I recall the BlackPods increasing resolution and transparency “better” than the platform. To me, something so difficult to get right, working so well, does not imply pseudo-science, or snake oil, or whatever, but rather good perception, knowledge and skills.Since both “feet” were put in a while ago, I guess I need to verify this though...maybe I can get to that soon. With new mods and cables, I am about due for some tuning.
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Do noise isolation feet like vibrapods help? (Read 40259 times)
