Okay, help me decide?

Should I get the new UFO Mono's or the UFO Rachael?

(Don't get any idea's....my ZMA masterpiece is not for sale. I just need to have Steve's Pentodes run in Triode once again.....as well).

I'm intrigued about the Rachael using KT88's P to T and 6550's too...P to Triode......EL34's to start....then rolling.

.....what is the % off, by the way.....that was not listed in my email...... .


What are you guys (or gals), getting out there?

Good one Lon....."really me you'd be getting nothing."  ;D

Steve's Pentode in Triode will always have a place in my Room.

Now back to pondering the new UFO Mono's or the UFO Rachael........ .

Exactly, you have one of Eddie's and enjoy it when it's in....but it's no Torii.

Ditto here, enjoyed my SE84CS, SuperZen and Torii III (personally owned all three/purchased new)....but they were not my ZMA either. .....But, when in.....to be enjoyed..... .

Eddie V's ~ this paper....I've always enjoyed and shared with other people....what to expect and what the enjoyment factor is of UL vs. Triode..... . Knowing you're aware of it Lon (obviously).... it popped in my head...and I posted for other's to read....and why I enjoy both STEVE'S UL/PP Topology and his Pentode in Triode Topology.
http://www.x3mhc.no/dokumenter/SE-v-PP-Part1.pdf

.......but the cool part about Steve's UL/PP....damn thing sounds Triode Real.  But, having said this.....something about Steve's P in T..... = je ne sais quoi....reminds me of how good the ZMA is and why it will be nice to have a Pentode in Triode of his again..... .

Back, to pondering then..........UFO Mono's or UFO Rachael........ .

Monoblocks are $1195 each so, $2390 intro price.  I like how Steve mirrored the amps as a pair.  Very classy design.

I did not get an email, how come.

I guess so.

I notice Steve's E-mails sometimes get filtered...I miss all his personal E-mall responses to me, even though I have him as a trusted contact.  You should reach out to him about the sale, I'd post it here, but I don't want to step on any toes.

And get this, at Decfest I was talking to Steve about the new preamp - and he flat out talked me out of it! LOL  Not that it isn't any good, but he knows me well enough, and knows how I listen. When he was developing the preamp I popped by for some listening, and nothing we put between my DirectStream and ZMA made me happy. Everything we tried "did something good", but I felt it took a slight step back in purity.  

I think maybe that OTL amp ruined me for purity - I honestly think it also changed how I listen to things...I swear I've never been the same since. That's like two or three times Steve has done that to me.

I can't use a Pre anymore with my ZMA. The purity I'm getting with the purposefully designed output stage of the ZDSD is well put.

I'm leaning toward getting the Rachael. I don't need the tubes.... So I get to save there too.

Match,

Isn't the Blue Torii 12w/channel? That is two Rachels I believe before thinking of sound... But then, double the power with a good amp means a lot here in terms of sound. Both my 944s and HR1s just sound better to me with more power. They sound good with lower power, but sing with more power.

More transparency at lower volumes or resolution. Hallmark of Steve's Triode. Simpler power supply.....and UFO Output trannies.

See History of Revisions at the bottom of the Rachael Page.

I had an order in for a SE84UFO but after thinking it over I had it changed to a Rachel.  Fortunately, I did not lose my place in the build order.  WOOHOOO!!!  I did this because I have an SE84CSEX that I will upgrade to the current model.  Steve says he can do it.  So, I don't need two of the same thing.

Next year will be interesting.

Hi Pal. I think I will enjoy the Rachael and tube rolling. It will be nice to have two Decware References again, like you are enjoying with your Torii III and Rachael. I sold my SE84CS and SuperZen last year.

A little more output @ 5.8/ch and using the Hazin Grid (CCE) with EL34's + roll some KT77, 6550 or KT88's non Hazin with her too. I have my nice bevy pairs of input 6922 tube types as well. So, I'll be choosing the no ship tubes savings/option. Of course, it better fits my budget too, to get Decware Pentode's in Triode back in here with a Rachael. I have no doubt the new SE84UFO Mono's are special with tube regulation. However, I think the Rach' is a better fit for me.

With the advent of the UFO output transformer's....the Rach' has the Speaker impedance switches as well. Even though my Adagio's are modded....nice to have the switches. I do use the 8ohm taps from my ZMA; so no worries really....but you never know.


Match, awesome switch to the Rach'.....no duplicating for sure.

Trust me Match. I don't find the ZMA's tubes a burden. I'm coming up on 3 years for the Zen Mystery Amplifier. The best Audio decision I have ever made.

Good one Palomino. I can hear M.B. saying it.

Am i to assume the giant Black Friday Sale ad along with the countdown clock is letting everyone who didn't receive an e-mail know there will be a sale?  Is the Black Friday sale the same as what some received in their In-Box?  Just curious, trying to decide on a ZDSD or ZCD240 and every little bit helps  :)

I am so ruined by the ZMA-nothing else will do................ .

I have decided to get the last pair of NOS Platinum Tubes I want from Kevin.....to complete my 6922 tube type NOS wants'/ALL SO GOOD ROLLING IN THE ZMA + buy a boat load of Music....to keep me busy all Winter.

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.   Enjoy.

PS~if you're out there on the fence? Buy a Decware piece that fits you.....discover your Music for real. I own the ZDSD to ZMA and their is no looking back.











Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.

From what I remember, I felt the monos were too laid back as well...they sounded good, but they weren't projecting sound into the room, the sound was literally laid back. On the other side of the room Zygi setup a pair of Zen Select (I think) bridged, and I thought they crushed the Mono pair. But then Bob flipped the input bias switch and suddenly the bridged selects sounded laid back like the monos and a lightbulb went on; my gut instinct was right again. I brought this up to Steve and he said yeah the monos have only one bias setting and it's more like the laid back setting - I suggested he either change the bias to the more forward bias or put the same bias switch in them, and he did that thing where he nodded sagely with a far-off like he was already changing the design in his head.

Hi guys

Just considering this piece of info, because i was about to pull the trigger on these amps. Can anyone who have heard them comment further? I had the understanding that these monos were a no-nonsense Upgrade from the "old"! Zen amp, and even the Select. I find them really attractive and i have borrowed a Zen Select and reallty liked that amp. So i was kind of sure that they would be an even better amp for my (New) Omega custom alnico 1.5 speakers.

Quote:


Stone, you crack me up!  

Word on the Black Friday Sale?

I was looking for the specifics of the sale from my iPhone. Neither the countdown timer nor the coupon code were rendering in the Chrome browser, using the Safari browser the countdown timer was present but was stuck at 0 00 00 00.

I then visited the site from my PC and everything looks normal with the coupon code at the top of the site.

Using the latest Safari in Yosemite I saw only the countdown, even when I was opening the homepage anew. busterfree's tip of reload/refreshing the page worked here this morning. Now there is a discount amount and a code.

So likely a cache thing for those of us who have been checking out the page to see what would happen before it officially became "black friday."

Always sounded dark and a little scary to me. Black Friday.

Weird. I just opened it in Chrome in Yosemite...works fine, but I had not tried it there before, so maybe no cache problem? Did you try clearing the cache?

Thanks Stone!  Refreshed the page and it appeared!

Yes, Black Friday makes me think of the first Friday the 13th when the Pope covertly managed to have almost all Knights Templar in the world executed on that one day!

True, no pic of the rear of the UFO2?

But, he did write in Blue colored type (addendum) it is there/has it/impedance switch.... Has to be in the back.

Cool Tal, thanks.

I like that it is two separate switches for impedance/each channel and in the back. Of course the one on the front is the source one or two switch.

The UFO2 allows three things:
Room to add Balanced Inputs
Have a wood base
Meters to see the quality of your tubes and clipping for the eye besides your ears.

It is way more Purdy I tell ya... Than the Spartan one. 😜😜

There is no bias switch on the UFO2. I don't see one on the monos either.

If you want the bias switch, you have to get the UFO.

I went for the new mono amps. Upgrades and everything. A little bit ambivalent when read about bridged select amps. Just about the same price if I went that direction. How does bridging affect sound characteristics?

Anyone know why the Chicken Head Knobs are not compatible with the Stepped Attenuator on the UFO2 but are compatible with the Stepped Attenuator on the UFO model ????

Quote:


Great info!  So, the bias switch might like to live in the forward position which, as I understand, would give more "forward" sound.  I think Raven said the new UFO3 monos did not have the switch but seemed to be voiced more towards the back position or "laid back" sound.  I'd guess that the UFO2 is voiced for the forward position?

Stone, the SE84UFO manual says that it has BOTH the bias and impedance switches.  I trust Steve in his choices but I was thrown a bit by the Decfest evaluation of the monos that said they sounded too laid back compared with the UFO (I think).  At this point I too favor the UFO2 due to it's meters and slick look.  

There is a lot to be said for flexibility.  Back to the SE84UFO!

Stone, did you order the Rachael?  How'd you configure it?  I noticed that the Sans Tube option also waives the 30 day trial.  

I also have Kimber 8TC clear jacket, Hero IC, KCAG and Kimber Timbre, if the Omega's can't handle the resolution of timbre and high and low frequency resolution of my reference Kimber Ag 1030 IC and/or KS6063 speaker cable.

You bet Dave. However, it will be about a year from now if I possibly sell it. I figure it will be 4 to 7 months until the release of Steve's Omega and another 3 months to get. But, I might get a pair from Louis/Omega before that. Or, if I'm digging the Rach' with my modified Adagio's which it/Rach, can easily drive (my little Zens could). I'm then, set with both of my Decware Amps and my Adagio's.

I'm fine with Jupiter's she is coming with....they will open up nicely with my NOS Platinum 6922 tube types + some choice EL34's for the Hazin and 6550's non Hazin.

Drum roll please: All about the UFO Transformers too!  ..... Need to season in.

Pal, have you tried different output tubes? Thoughts on those?

Stone, its been so long since I rolled anything in Rachael, I am not sure I know what is in there!  

I am pretty sure they are JJ cryo'd EL 34s.  I recall liking them better than the Tung Sol, but not sure why.  I have tried TAD KT77s which came with the amp, but found them muddy, underpowered and they didn't image as well (perhaps due to not enabling the Hazen mod).

Historically, I feel I get the most out of rolling input tubes.

I have rolled rectifiers.  I ended up with a cryo'd 274B that Steve includes as standard issue.  I found it more dynamic than others I have tried - most notably NOS RCA 5U4G (both smooth and ripple plates).  I also tried the GZ34 that came with the amp but didn't like it.  Don't remember why.

Now that I am listening to Rachael full time, I should start to roll again.

MUST.  FINISH. DIFFUSERS.

I am off starting the 17th so we should have time for a CDApS meeting.

We need to recruite some new members.

Stone,

Yesterday for fun I tossed in the TAD cyo'd GZ34.  Sounded more open.  Interesting.

Quote:


I have Aaron on Facebook - who else is in our area that we need to reach out to?

Quote:


For the most part I agree with this, but not 100%. With the ZMA especially the input tubes make more of a difference, but I'm not so sure with the Rachel. I think she's happier with Hazen enabled tubes.

Man, wish I lived closer to you guys. Maybe, next Spring or Summer, I will road trip it for a visit.


Quote from stone:
Pal, it is all about rolling input tubes. Don't let anyone say differently. I'm looking forward to rolling in my Rachael as I do in my ZMA.

Quote from LR:
For the most part I agree with this, but not 100%. With the ZMA especially the input tubes make more of a difference, but I'm not so sure with the Rachel. I think she's happier with Hazen enabled tubes.



The jury is out on the Rachael for input tubes ~ agreed. But, if they don't make the same impact as they do in my ZMA? = keeps them solely for the ZMA.

The Rach' for me:

Steve's UFO Transformer's
Steve's pentodes in triode back in the house
Hazen Grid/EL34 and non Hazen/6550 (for example) comparison as well
Roll Rectifier's too
Dual Volume Controls
Fun comparison to my ZMA.

If it happen's to love NOS Platinum input tube rolling? = added BONUS.

Vaughn Audio Carina in the house since Thursday. Nice Amp. I'm enjoying it in Ultralinear Mode @ 3.2 watts per channel this morning and my Ediswan 6922 as input tube with JJ EL84's + JJ GZ34. Establishing a baseline with her....before further tube rolling. The Carina also does 1.5/ch in Triode....very, very nice.

Do we still have access to the build sheet Que? I looked on the Contact page where access once was. I did not see?

I was going to cancel my UFO Rachael. However, I need to hear the Rach' beauty at 5.8 Triode output per channel and tube rolling my 6922 tube types + Steve's new UFO transformer's.

For me, the ZMA Reigns supreme. However, to have the Carina/EL84 Triode & UL based and the Rachael coming EL34 Triode based.....allows me points of reference I do/will much enjoy.










Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain

Eddie Vaughn Carina Triode & UL


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.

Here you go Larry:

https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting...
_List/hAqfNhyE7rNXQFUDfyb7Y8G8r0RRrP82DMY814hPnsknzr8711vTq3QU2gaK0CVOwv4Kdps4kP
sAeNCtpP8sawfYKv3E46OMpk6T

Thanks for the Link Lon. However, it is giving me this message:
"There is no such view in Zoho Creator". .....with no connection.

I will check back later tonight.....off to work I go....because I owe, I owe........ .

https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting...
_List/hAqfNhyE7rNXQFUDfyb7Y8G8r0RRrP82DMY814hPnsknzr8711vTq3QU2gaK0CVOwv4Kdps4kP
sAeNCtpP8sawfYKv3E46OMpk6T

Hmmmm. . . don't know why I can paste the link from the email I have and it works, but posting the link here doesn't! I assure you that it works. . . .Your order is still reading "NEW". . . .