We had a short and sweet CDaPs meeting yesterday at President Raven's multi-media Lair.  Rob, Jay and I seated in the listening area with Raven off to the side like the wizard of Oz pulling levers behind the curtain.

We listened to Raven's ZMA/DS combo the entire time, but swapped in speakers and IC's.

We started out with some Elvis which was pretty amazing given its recording date.  We also heard some Beach Boys Pet Sounds which was also amazing given the 60's vintage.  Lots of other music heard, but those two stand out.   Oh, and what became a test track for the day - Summertime with Louis Armstrong/Ella Fitzgerald.

Speakers compared were the 944s, El Caminos and the Blue Zu.  I knew what to expect from the 944s and El Caminos, but was pleasantly surprised by the Blue Zu's.  They had more of the open sound I look for and imaged really well in Raven's difficult room.  I would still plunk down my money on the 944s if I had to pick a pair for all round listening, but the Blue Zu had me wondering.

On the IC front, we heard Raven's Morrow's, Rob's Coincident (sp?) which are both balanced and my $50 DIY Belden 8402s with Switchcraft RCAs.  Rob's ICs easily won in my mind, followed by the Morrow's.  The Belden were harder to compare because of playback level differences, but held their own with the more expensive cables.  Closer to the Morrow's than the Coincident.

We toured Raven's future "intimate" listening room, a spare bedroom that is being emptied for a higher calling.

Oh, and I almost forgot.  I did sense a difference in the DS firmware.  For me, it seemed smoother and more detailed than times past, but it had been a while.  Certainly better than we heard in my room last time around (may have been a technical issue then).

That's about it.  Other members may chime it with impressions.

Sorry for the crummy photos, but it's really dark in my media room. And honestly, I took them all near the end in about 30 seconds.  :)

Quote:


That's a quote for the ages right there! I love it!

Don't forget about the Blue Zu! I knew right away that was a sound more closer to your system. They are good, but not *my* sound. And I think you nailed the description of my sound right there with the quote above.  Thanks for the good laugh, and I really enjoyed having you guys over.

I don't expect Jester/Jason to post here. He's too busy and we're a boring crowd to the non-hardcore Decare/Audiophile fiends. I did however plant the seed of him getting that Decware ZCD, or maybe the stock version of it since he doesn't spend like we do on audio.  :)

Oh yeah, I'm still considering a DAC for my computer - the buzzing off the speakers is driving me nuts, which sucks because the Zen amp on my PC, even with cheap ass PC speakers sounds amazing. The sound card just has too much noise, so i need to bypass it. Can I borrow a budget DAC from someone to see if that works?

I'm still considering buying some decent speakers for the computer to mate up to my Zen amp - I'm hoping something really inexpensive but decent sounding pops up in the Classifieds soon.  :)

~Eric~

Hahaha, glad you liked it!  Who wouldn't want to take home a lap dancer?

The Blue Zu Omen were (are) more to my taste than the 944.  I know it wasn't a surprise to anyone, except maybe Jason, that I preferred them in our A/B.  It was funny, because Jason said he felt pretty much the opposite of how I felt.  I like the open, airy soundstage with a strong yet still secondary love for detail and focus.  I think you and Palo are more in his camp, too, though Palo has been using the word "musical" a lot lately so maybe him and I are closer than I think

This was a case in point why there is probably no such thing as "The Absolute Sound".  Everyone has a different preference.

There are a bunch of uncontrolled variables in what I am about to say, but since they echo what you guys observed in a more controlled experiment I will mention them anyway.

My buddy owns Zu speakers and I too find them more laid back vs. the 944's.  Sounds like you are observing the same.  I find that the soundstage starts further behind the speakers than the 944's.  Therefore, depth of the stage appears to be greater.

That said, without the detail I get in my system I find it more difficult to hear into the music.  This is where I would apply the caveat above, because I haven't heard the Zu's in my system (with my DAC, room treatments, etc).  I have only heard them at my buddies place.

Also, one thing I noticed immediately with the Zu's vs. the 944's is how the tweeters on the Zu's separate tape hiss from the rest of the recording.  Tape hiss is rendered in front of the speakers while the music starts behind the plane of the speakers.   I don't get this 'effect' on my speakers.  That said, I have experienced this on Magnepan speakers in the past.

So...I was hoping you guys would comment further on your observations.

Hi Rob.  Did you by any chance demo the Triode Wire Labs interconnect when you were on your search for an XLR cable?  Curious because your power and speaker cables are TWL...

Have you guys done any Cap rolling in these Speaker's (pictured: 944, Zu & Zggy modified El Camino)?

Curious what Caps are in each?

I'm considering having Mundorf M-CAP® Supreme Silver & Oil put in. Currently, I have Mcap Supremes in my Acoustic Zen Adagio's/4.5kHz cross.

Stone dont' do ~ and don't like Zus design ethos around stitching their wide banders and tweeters together. My Adagio's are very nice, but intrigued about squeezing even more Juice from Silver Oils ~an even fuller and smoother tonal richness and diversity.
Burn in sucks....but I might have to go for it!

What Palomino said.

My 944 have crossovers, whereas the previous ones didn't - and it's installed in such a way that I can't access the crossover.

The Zu I've not touched except to put hours on them. They sound decent, just not quite my sound. I do love the *blue* though.

My current experience in a similarly sized listening room indicates it is enough to make one listener happy at the sweet spot, nothing else. It does not help to disseminate the good sound to other people or its surroundings, nor it excels in bass management unless you go with plenty of bass traps around.

Absorption panels help but kill the liveliness of the sound so Diffusors are a must: I would say, 50% each of this two types spread around are ideal. I'm working towards that goal and feel I'm on the right track. The bottom line is, sometimes you feel you are imprisoned inside that 'cell', but the sound variables can more easily be controlled and low power amps with high sensitive speakers in this environment rule.

There's a difference between near-field listening and a larger acoustic environment, each with its own tradeoffs.

We could also bring in Palomino's rolling QRD diffuser lab to test.

I won't be happy till your room looks like that production studio with floor to ceiling (and ceiling) skylines.

Oh yeah, the two windows will be filled by the hard pink foam insulation sheets. I'm basically going to cut out plugs and make them flush with the wall...which will kind of suck because this is the nicest room in the house for ambient light...but it will drop the noise floor quite a bit.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement!

I'll at least have this as an experiment. Running clean power to this room will be a bear, and I need to remove the ceiling fan and add at least 4 (LED) recessed lights. Plug the Windows. Paint. Build the Stereo Rack. Then start moving gear in and testing empty, absorbed, then absorbers+diffusers.

Somewhere in the listening Stage, I'll have CDApS over for some listening sessions and to help me decide what diffuser layout sounds the best.

I'll take photos and post the journey here in the forums of course. Ultimately, if I can't get a listening room at least up to the level that Palomino has built up...then I'll scrap this room and probably turn it into a workout room or something.

LR, you should definitely start a thread on your 2nd listening space.  Of course I am happy to come over and evaluate as it progresses!

I ended up selling my Coincident IC's and bought some Triode Wire Labs "Spirit" ICs to complete my TWL loom.  On a whim, I also bought the "Digital American" power cord to replace my 10+ power cord on the DAC.  If that wasn't good enough, ZenWave Audio (f/k/a Dave's Cables) is sending me some interconnects for demo early next week: a pair of XLR D2 Ultras and some D4.  The D2 are newly revamped and I don't believe that he's posted them on his website yet.  You can find details on AudioCircle, though.

Ain't life grand?

Rob

PS - I've been playing around with Furutech GTX-D outlets and have much to say about them.  I'll be posting a new thread about those when I get the energy.

Rob...I have had my eye on both of those cables from TWL, so I am curious what your thoughts are.  My primary need at the moment is for a good XLR cable to run from the DS DAC to the ZMA.  

I am currently using Anti-Cable reference RCA interconnects, but I am in need of some extra weight and dynamics (that I am hoping the XLR will provide via a bit more voltage).  I have had the Anti-Cable reference XLR in for demo in the past but ultimately sent it back.  That said, it could have been my previous DAC vs. the cable, so maybe I should give it another chance.

I just got started listening to the official release of Yale on my DS.  Melody Gardot appears to be singing in my room as I write this.  That's fine by me.  

Cheers and happy listening!
Dave      

The rest of CDApS is missing out - I have Jester here and we're trying out the Decware CD player via the stock XLR outs, and it simply sounds outstanding!

If you're sure you don't need it for another week, Steve, I wouldn't mind playing with it more. I did lots of radio listening (this is really good for that!) and we tested some CDs last night, plus played files off USB Flash Drive.

We had some trouble with getting the device to see my NAS, and it was getting late so I pulled the plug on that. I'd really like to spend more time on the devices network features and flesh it out some.

For the money, this is a really great unit!

Putting your family over CDApS! Pishaw!