Scrapper - Welcome aboard! Great forum here, tons of advice, knowledge, experience (painful and otherwise) and fun. I lurked, bought a Zen SE84CS kit way back in the day, and then lusted for a Rachael and ZP3 which now reside in my rack. LOVE THEM!! Even my wife comments how much better things sound now and is excited about some new speakers (Omega 7 & sub) which I will order within the next week after finish samples arrive. Dive in, keep us posted!! Happy listening, Chris,

Thanks for the Replies! What is everones opinion on Bose? I think I can pick up a set of their speakers from the local resell shop fairly cheap ($350/each), I think they are 501 Series V? Thoughts? I'm not sure what I will drive (I think thats the right word) them with yet.

Welcome Scrapper!

+1 to what Acetone said.  Efficienct and easy to drive speakers are very important when it comes to low wattage tube amps.  I'm not sure what the specs are for the Bose, but I would look into speakers that start around 94dB sensitivity and higher.

A few brands to look into are: Zu Audio, Tekton, Omega, Decware's own line of speakers, Blumenstein Audio and Klipsch.  Consider used speakers if you are on a budget check out the Classifieds here on the Decware forums and Audiogon.

They should work. I used my Zen Rev. A amp and my Select with 4.1 and 10.2s in a small listening room and they were quite loud enough for all but heavy metal and orchestral climaxes, and had an interesting sound.

Scrapper,
It all boils down to how you want to approach this hobby. Some like to pile drive their music and some like the finess of music reproduced with style.
I have been known to rattle the windows but have came to appreciate the finer aspects of music.
Make sure that you pay attention to the details like cables, interconnects , and vibration control. They will all pay off in the long run.

Dan,

when I started on my hifi tubefi decwarefi journey several years ago, I didn't know what was good.  what was real.  what mattered.  what differences could be heard.  

Today, I own, a se84, torii3, and ZMA, and some decware seakers.  I haven't heard a better stereo system out there, and frankly have stopped looking.

in this thread, people are leading you toward high efficiency, and you might not know why, but Steve Deckert has written a bunch of really useful articles about this stuff.  (over time, as I bought equipment, and started learning and hearing the differences, I learned that "Oh, this is what Steve meant in article X when he describes this phenomena".

I recommend reading some (all) of this stuff.  

articles: https://www.decware.com/newsite/articles.html

And the one to start with: https://www.decware.com/paper43.htm
high efficiency speakers: https://www.decware.com/paper49.htm

once you know some of this stuff, you'll answer your own question about name brand less efficient speakers.

What about macintosh?

Scrapper, My Torii is red but I did it myself. Spray paint is cheap. You can get custom wood bases made in about any kind of wood that you could imagine.
And I have to ask, Product??? That sounds nefarious, lol!

Seriously, if you're going to spend that kind of money, take a trip to Illinois and audition everything with Steve, after you have auditioned everything you think sounds good... bose, McIntosh, etc.  that air fare will more than pay for itself in "not changing your mind" in the future, aka, getting off the audio equipment merri-go round.  hearing is believing.  you won't af first believe what you hear.

"Take your time" advice is very good and appropriate.  I jumped straight to the end: "Just go to Illinois and hear for yourself" because of my story with Decware.

As I said, I didn't know anything: Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo, receivers were my hi-fi world.  I bought speakers if they were heavy and had big magnets (embarrassingly).

I had just started dabbling with used SS and tube amps from Jolida and Myriad, and realized you can hear the difference over a consumer receiver.  I read about SET and started small with a SE84C.  not too much money.  But definitely heard a difference.  It blew my used "hifi" stuff away.  The clarity and more so the speed of the small SE84 is unmatched.  You can't understand it until you hear it, on efficient speakers.  That's key, you (we all) have to learn what "speed" means, or really sounds like.  And once you know, then you can't live without it.  I gained some trust in Decware, and wanted more power, so I bought into the bigger Torii3.  it trades some speed for lots more power, but still beats the pants off the other stuff I heard.  Trust grew. And then the ZMA... and that's, well, just awesome in a whole different way.  (tight and big low end, to say the least).  Anyway, as my knowledge (including going to 2 Decfests in Illinois and hearing all their gear) and trust grew, I spent more $$$ and have zero buyers remorse.

I put in the time and money to gain the knowledge and trust with these products over time.  I love my3 amps.  They are different, and all fantastic.  think Swedish super model triplets.  each amazing, but slightly different.  And compared to "lesser" (other) gear, there's no comparison.

Now, speakers.  yes, this is very subjective, but a general rule is more efficiency is better (as the articles explain... you don't want to waste audio information (music clarity) generating heat in a speaker or crossover. )  Also, there are synergies between different amps and different speakers (due to damping and impedance curve differences).  read the decfest threads and you'll see preferences about which speakers sound best with which amps.  you can spend a lot of time trying different combinations (of any brand speaker).  

So again, I say, go to the source.  Steve D has his opinions of which speakers best match amps and the reasons why.  People here do too.  He knows what will likely sound good in your room when you describe what you're trying to do.  

If the cost of the trip is a small enough fraction of the money you want to spend, and you want to get to the end result sooner than later, go to the source is still my advice.  What you gain from that trip is the knowledge you need to feel you're making sound choices.  

free advice is worth what you pay for it.

Oh my, $20k ! I missed that post, there`s been a lot of helpful recomendations.
Scrapper, you could enter the Decware house sound and have problems deciding, mainly which amp to buy, CSP3 as well.
Speakers, I`d love to hear a pair myself. Excelent DSR i/c`s.
Bose speakers, I`ve read some really crap stuff about them, I mean really crap. I suppose they had a decent model somewhere.
I bought into the dream and thats where I am when I listen. It just took the ZP3 to open my eyes as to what was on offer.
I reckon Steve could give you some good advice as to the power range best suited.

Road Trip!

Dan, you asked about Bose and McIntosh, two opposite ends of consumer price and recognition from the average person's perspective.  You ask a person on the street about Bose and they have heard the name, and probably think it is for people wanting the best.  Ask about McIntosh and they think you are asking about a PC.

Truth:  Bose does make interesting products that are quite suited to those who don't want sound products that impose visually in the room, and to the average listener they sound good.  You are paying for name recognition via very heavy advertising.  All of their products at their respective price can be beaten sonically by other brands less well known.

McIntosh makes very good (not the best) sounding equipment and their gear is built like a tank.  Their appeal has always been the blue meters that beam out at you and signify the Mac brand.  I had one of their amps and it did perform quite well for over 25 years before I learned better sound could be had for less money.  Their gear is over-built and well made but you break your back moving it.  My amp was right at 100 pounds.  Oomph!!!

Many have suggested visiting Decware for the full monty demo.  I agree, it would give you a great understanding of Decware if a trip to E. Peoria is possible.  In any system the speakers make the most impact into the kind of sound you will be getting.  They also sometimes dictate your room and setup decisions.  Large planar dipoles for example pull a lot of power and require that they be placed well into the room. I had Magnepan speakers not long ago and they are not good speakers for Decware amps.  

Decware amps (lower power models) work best with high sensitivity speakers as has already been stated.  Their upper amps (ZMA and Monos) will work well with moderate sensitivity speakers (87dB and up) provided the speaker isn't a complex load (multiple crossovers and wide impedance swings).  I use my ZMA amp with JansZen hybrid electrostatic speakers.  These are only 87dB sensitive but an easy load for the the ZMA.  Steve's speakers are both high sensitivity and an easy load, a great combination.

easy now guys, I've been lurking and reading up a bunch(and production has been heavy too)

I would love to come Pay a visit, I'll have to see when the next time I'm state side visiting my associates if I can fit illinios in.

I did manage to do some research on cabling and found a guy not to far from my home town that's into making high end speaker wire, his company is called Wire Tech. He says he runs solid single core wire made from blue spun titanium then isolates each strand in a fabric sheathing. He charges around 150/ft. but says he'd cut me a deal if I take care of a few things for him.

As far as the McIntosh stuff goes, I did some more research and it seems over priced for what you get. I do have the 20k to spend but don't want to spend it like an ass hole, you know?

Titanium cables interest me. The properties of it makes sense. I do wonder about the sound and the cost.
It wouldn't ever corrode, that's for sure. They wouldn't be heavy. I wonder how they terminate because Ti doesn't like to bend. Nasty stuff to cut and handle.  

Lol customs won't be an issue...

I know Pure Note makes a Titanium interconnect, though the wire inside is Palladium, the titanium is a component of the jacket I believe.