What up BOB? When I first started out I was using two HWK15 to "feel the LFE in my chest" but the SPL was painful. Like 60 pointed out the auras are awesome for home theater. I have used auras, pros, clarks, and now buttkicker lfe and now I can't do with out them. Don't get me wrong STEVE's designs are second to none but if I understand what your after is great sound and tactical force for home theater. The SPL is too loud(for neighbors and women) so the next step is tactical. Let me know if you need any info.

Depending on the power of the amp it is possible to run both HWK and "shakers". I run 10 auras(not the pros) off one 250w plate amp with no problems but the cooling fan is running. Auras take 30w(peak at 40Hz), pros 50w(peak at 40Hz), clarks 150w(range from 20Hz to 800Hz?), and the buttkicker 400w minimum(range from 5Hz to 200Hz). Tactical transducers work with everything from music to movies, and even the wife. Oh just so you know I can not do without my HWKs either and believe me I have tried just about everything. Good Luck with your adventure into Home Theater.

If you are looking at the pros over powering four should not be an issue keeping the amp cool will. Shakers draw large amounts of current to operate where a speaker seems to draw a little less. The key is blending the shakers and HWK together. If you have an elevated floor enough shakers in the couch will actual cause the floor to start resonating. All this is a hobby so make it fun.

Bob - I think I know what you might be getting at.  In fact, I had been considering changing my HWK alignment from both magnets in the center chamber to both magnets down, and then adjusting the lower chamber to bring its volume back to what it was.  As an experiment, try clamshelling both drivers in the bottom baffle - you may need to make a spacer because I think the surrounds will touch if you couple them directly together.  This will change the way your box works - eliminating the large center chamber and making it a basic sixth order bandpass box, with a frequency response which is quite a bit lower (since the top chamber is now huge).  I did this with my Daytons and was blown away by some movie effects (I think I was watching "Aliens").  As impressive as this was, having the frequency response shifted so low wasn't well suited to listening to music, so I went back to a driver in each baffle.  In any case, I would definitely try both the clamshell in the bottom, and simply flipping the bottom driver over so that both cones face the top, to see what you prefer for your style of listening, and also give you a feel for the effect of changing driver configurations on the output of this enclosure.

-Sean

i still vote for excellent quality over 'effect' im sure if you set your hwk up accurately,  forget about wanting 'in your chest' bass and get used to 'articulate accurate bass' you will find that it is way more satisfying. a bit like 'just the tip in' is actually more exciteing than 'full immersion'  ;) weird analogy i know but it the best i can do right now!, maybe the difference between a muscle car and a merc? which one would you actually prefer to drive every day!

the explosions etc will SOUND excellent and be very satisfying, its just that shakeing the couch is not easily done below 172db! would you pour sugar into a quality glass of wine? put 'lengerie' on a beautiful woman? 'spinning hubs' on a ferrari? ketchup on a great steak? good bass is refined and extremely satisfying when deliverd naturally, the in your chest sensation your seeking is an 'abomination' of the real thing.

do me a favor untill your 'shakers' arrive.set up your audio rig with everything flat, watch a movie you know well that has good audio, have the houswrecker turned up to a good level but no bass boost or eqing just x it over at about 70 hz and turn it up and watch the movie.when a low note / sound hits, notice how it sounds 'real' maybe not vibrateing your couch, but it will actually 'sound' real , and you should be able to idetify the difference easily between a car door being closed and a dead body landing on the ground, insted of everthing just sounding like a boom or a thump.haveing 'a thunder clap' tickle your brain( and i say brain because the sound enters either sida of it and start tickleing) @ 12 hz accurately is very very weird and excellent, see if you can find a movie with some good thunder in it!

try it?

Yes 60, I will try it. I'll need to go buy new movie though. I've been through all of DVD's searching for what I like to call "ear candy". And am getting too "used" to them. The 2 good examples of thunder I have are #1 "The Day After Tomorrow", a few chapters in. And on "Star Wars III", the THX intro with thunder, lightening and the planet shatters and 'tinkles' down. Both very good.

DirtDawg, I've seen the 'Sounds of Nature" cd's in stores, but have not heard of  a cd called B-5. Those are good ideas. Never thought of actually buying them.  ???  I'm just enough of a nut to go buy some sound effect cds, sit in my cave, and listen to thunder and rain.  My wife will think I lost it for sure.

HEY....Now that I think about it, anybody seen an equivelant DVD of this type of stuff??    Maybe HD??  ;D

Then I can have my eye candy along with my ear candy....

Hey 60ndown, yes I would put 'lengerie' on a beautiful woman.
   at first......... Then I'd ...... um.......

Bob

[quote author=Bob  link=1137542099/105#112 date=1138832739]

DirtDawg, I've seen the 'Sounds of Nature" cd's in stores, but have not heard of  a cd called B-5. Those are good ideas. Never thought of actually buying them.  ???  I'm just enough of a nut to go buy some sound effect cds, sit in my cave, and listen to thunder and rain.  My wife will think I lost it for sure.

Bob [/quote]

Hey, Bob,

Before you check the stores for that kind of stuff, try the library. I don't know if I'm alone in this but, our local public library is absolutely amazing after an expansion a couple of years ago. I recently did a number search at the library and they have over 60 thousand disk titles, now. They have as varied a selection of DVDs as Blockbuster does. Although delayed by a few months on new stuff, they're free! For a special effects CD, which you won't use very often, I would certainly look there first.

B-5 (DVD) is a cult followers name for "Babylon 5", a series from Showtime a few years back. It was a Sci-Fi program, which was considered groundbreaking in the areas of cinema-like sound and definition over the air/satellite on a TV series budget. It also had a complete saga, beginning to end, written before it was started, unlike most series productions which watch for viewer polls to tell them what's next. It is a little cheesy compared to the latest big budget movie, but if you are a Sci-Fi fan you should give it a try.

I can't remember which episodes, took place on Mars (in the process of being terraformed) where violent thunderstorms are common. The sound was prety good throughout the series, though.

A stable amp is all you need with your Aura's. They present a hghly inductive load similar to a massive wall of speakers, but the impedance and current draw (someone mentioned ) is predictable. You can probably drive them with the same amp if you are creative with your wiring. Just stay within the recommended impedance capacity of your amp. I wouldn't mix them with speakers on one channel, because of the higher reactance. Put all the shakers on one channel and all the speakers on the other.

On other thing many forget is that the phasing on the shakers is just as critical as your main speakers, and switching it around until you get the best result will be necessary. I hope you enjoy your shakers.

Don't judge a library by the bricks on the outside.
Sorry, my "tic" is coming back.

That scheme looks perfect. If the items (whatever they are) you are connecting with that diagram are all the same impedance, the total impedance of all 4 connected in that fashion, combine to equal the same impedance as a single unit.

In other words if your shakers are 8 ohms each, then a block of four, in a series/parallel arrangement, will be 8 ohms also.
Repeat as necessary.

connect the daytons in paralell = 4 0hms. = 900 wrms = you dont need any bass shakers

If you wire all the shakers like in diagram to one channel they will each recieve 100 w.  The daytons on the other hand when wired in parrallel would recieve 200 w each.


I would do what sixty said, wire the daytons in parralel bridged to the amp, resulting in 450 w a piece, and then get a seperate amp for the shakers, that one in the PDF is like $100.


That would give you the highest output through the daytons, and you wouldn't have to worry about underpowering anything.

Thanks guys, I think I'll go with DirtDawgs way for now. Have been on a spending spree recently, and need to chill out. (havn't told you about the Xbox360 that's coming this week). I assume total ohms could be checked with a DVOM after wiring is complete, just before installing wires to amp or receiver? When we talk about a "4 ohm load", is this a measureable number, or is it theoretical?

Is there an industry standard for guage wiring (output side of amp) versus wattage?  Wondering if I've got enough.... Does it hold true for shakers as well? Could 'Romex' (12 - 14 guage household wiring) be used for speakers? I have plenty and wouldn't mind using it for the HWK since it may end up 30 feet from the amp (30 feet in wiring, not as 'the crow flies'.)

Roll of film is finished, need to have developed. Will show you what I did in center chamber for driver bracing. Would also like to show you a picture of my screen wall.

Sorry to hear about your neighbors, 60.

Bob

...... without distortion.

amen

Bob

as far as i know, the closest decware product to the imperial would be the quad loaded hwk-18 (im not the speaker God you may expect to answer...i'm just speaking from what i've read on the forum).

i remember someone said he remodeled the hwk18...but the plans contain it scaled, so i guess you could use them...

Nope, it looks like we all got sidetracked by the HWK vs. IMP thing...

i d k the answer, but do you have pictures?

Yes, I have pictures.  Need to reinstall scanner software on Dell machine after the catastrophic failure recently (I created trying to install dual monitor output for projector). Also been playing with new Xbox360. I know a lot of you guys are not into gaming, but you should see todays High definition graphics on a 140" widescreen with an optical audio output on 7.1 surround. It'll make you a kid again. (Which is another reason scanner isn't fixed)

Will scan pictures this weekend. May have to post on Monday at work since I still can't post on this website at home.

(Never posted pic before, that'll be a whole new ...  :'( )

Got the shakers, but seating still not here....

Bob
Bye all,  have a good weekend. Time to clock out.

I just think that 12GA Romex will get you 95% of the way to perfection for speaker cables in most cases. To get a couple more % you will need a home improvement loan first. And IF anyone seriously thinks that your fanny can tell the difference between 12GA Romex and the best solid Ag/braided/shielded/WTF fancy cable in your shaker application, just laugh it off and tell the story to your grandkids.

I won't be the first to spill blood over cabling issues!

[quote author=Bob  link=1137542099/120#122 date=1139226968]..... I assume total ohms could be checked with a DVOM after wiring is complete, just before installing wires to amp or receiver? When we talk about a "4 ohm load", is this a measureable number, or is it theoretical? ...... Bob [/quote]

Sorry, Bob, I just realized you asked 2 questions. 4 ohms is real and measurable, not just theoretical, but more properly called "nominal". That just means that since they have to call it something we can all agree to call it 4 ohms. It will only measure an actual 4 ohm impedance at certain frequencies while operating, but it can vary widely at different frequencies.

If you put you meter across the speaker terminals you will not measure 4 ohms. Your meter alone, without some other equipment hooked up also, cannot measure impedance. You will get a measurement of DC resistance, which is usually a little less than nominal impedance. If I was going to make a SWAG it would be around 3.2 to 3.6 ohms measuring with just an ohm meter for a 4 ohm driver load.

yeah, any time you have speaker wires running near a large alternating current, probably a bad idea, so don't go into the walls next to the power wire.

For pictures, I use Photobucket, but www.tinypic.com is nice.

Just upload the picture from your computer and they will spit out a link for you, copy the one that looks like:

[ i m g ] http://whatever [ / i m g ]  (no spaces.)  
-paste it in the post: that will put the actual picture in the post.

Otherwise, copy the http:// one and paste that into post for a clickable link to the photos.

-JRock

How helpful !  Damn DD.

You guys are terrific. Will check out those site. I've seen some that are just horrible / not user friendly. Viewing somebodys pics on some of these sites are a pain. Havnt seen image shack or tinypic. Seen photobucket before. Didn't know these things are free though.

Thank you guys very much...

Bob

Ok, got an account with "Webshots", uploaded the pictures. I can view them on the site, but they are not 'public' yet for some reason.... Maybe the pictures have to be 'reviewed' before they let they out for the public to see? You know checking for porn ?? obsenity ??

Bob

Does this work for anybody? Should be an album with 5 pictures.
http://community.webshots.com/user/XBobJacksonX

Very nice!

For bracing the tw drivers together, what is holding those pieces of wood?

Nice job, Bob!
I like the way you braced the drivers together. You'll have to give us some closeups of that operation.
Since we've already polluted your thread with unecessary blather (THE term of the day!), you need to tell us more about the webshots membership. I've often wondered if it would be worth doing, but I'm concerned about putting their software on my machine. I like to run a pretty clean box.
Tell me why you chose webshots.


MOD: ....... maybe it makes more sense without the typos .......