Well yes, I can accept that. I am fairly delusional.

I suppose in a perfect world everything “should” be to my like. Should but not ought. And as far as price goes, diminishing returns are a real thing. I think that’s an exponential curve with price growing exponentially for relatively minor improvements in sound quality.

I have also used test tones to find nulls in bass response. I agree that it’s not fun but the sacrifice is worth the reward once you nail the crossover frequency or room treatment.

In fact, just this weekend I found myself needing to connect my television to my Decware amp because my new streamer doesn’t have digital inputs, and I found an Amazon basics 1/8” headphone to RCA cord in a tote in a box in the garage that did the trick. And I have to admit that more than once during the film I said, “Holy spit, this sounds amazing!”  

The hifi industry may even be an organized syndicate. I certainly can’t rationalize most of it. Especially when some live singer with a beat up $200 Yamaha acoustic guitar can sound better live than my stereo does at home. But hell. I certainly enjoy this vice. And that’s what it’s all about. Bringing all those performances here when I can’t be there.

And yeah, I haven’t heard much of anything aside from ringing since I last heard 110db, and for the most part I prefer to listen to enjoy rather than analyze. But I also suppose that’s why they are there and we are here. Either way, I’m pretty happy with my system. I hope they are too!

Thought provoking topic, Donnie.

Having looked a lot at delusions from a standpoint of years of zen practice, I guess I have a little different view of the definition than dictionaries might. To me delusions are originally products of wanting to act out our desires without having to look too much at the causes and effects of those actions. When we do things that we want to for our own gain, with negative consequences for ourselves, other people, things, ecosystems, etc, seems that action usually needs to be rationalized or denied in order to feel OK about ourselves.

So in the case of individual delusions, we modify fundamental truth just enough to feel less pain from the pain we cause ourselves and others, while the divergence from truth remains close enough to some concept of the truth that the delusion is believable as truth. Delusions become "the truth."

Making it more confusing and complex, the human race, having been working on this for millennia, we are born and cultured into a vast fabric of interrelated and interdependent partial truths posing as, and protected as truths... ultimately making the truth obscure, and even flexible. Then, everything grey, it can all be opinion, or "my truth"  rather than truth, which in turn makes the breadth and depth of overlaid delusions greater, and more confused and destructive.

Still, with consideration, so many "truths" posing as "the truth," "the truth" rarely feels complete or true really. But with long progression, and varying cultural consensus about what is true, confusions not only allow for more variations on the truth from an individual and group perspective... but, as defeating, confusion about reality makes "our truth" more fragile, more difficult to perceive and trust. Finally, as delusions interrelate with reality, subconscious and conscious mistrust of delusions influence our views of reality, usually making our sense of reality not fully trustworthy.

"Out in the wind" we seek something to hold onto, and many of the things we come to desire are not objects, but beliefs, ideas, and doctrines. To feel better, more stable and secure in a world made insecure by delusions, we inadvertently come to "protect" and "defend" delusions as truth... making them part of our identity and giving us something to hold onto, and often worse, something to fight about. What a mess!


In audio measurement context, with our standard, relatively incomplete tools, if we take them as more than pointers, as absolute, I think we are agreeing to deny the complexity of what makes music in a room interact as completely as possible with our body/mind/consciousness... with our musical sensibilities. For my own path, me, I have always avoided measurements, in part because they tend to be incomplete; in part because, for so many, interpretation of them tends to be incomplete while acting complete, limiting potential to take things further more quickly; and related, concern about becoming dependent on them as part of a cultured belief system that is only partially true (delusional if interpreted as absolute).

In my experience, exploring lots of really nice gear and cables that have been measured, and consistently and progressively finding ways to adjust them for a more complete and realistic musical experience.... from that context, I think a big part of what has kept me off measurements was concern that they might influence and limit my seemingly ever-refining perception and discernment, things that refine themselves with use. I get that measurements can be quite useful as pointers, as steps on the way to a potentially great experience. But I can't help thinking that refined perception and discernment are our most powerful tools for helping us find countless nuanced qualities of time and sound that are needed to shape a more complete musical experience.

Will,

Thanks for that.

JD

"Funny thing is that I don't listen to test tones."

Perfect!  ;)  [smiley=icqlite20.png]

I am still locked into much the same gear I've been listening to since about 2003. Same speakers for 2 channel since 1998.(Zen)and 5.1 Yamaha (2007).  Hsu sub since 2003, 2 Klipsch subs since about 2007 and 2011 (5.3). Oppo Blu ray players since announcement dates. Blu jeans speaker wires/sub cables/and pretty, well made ones too into the Zen.      
The Zen amp is still my last purchase.. Love that thing! A few years in now. Almost nightly. I have great hearing especially for my age. Very lucky. I am not an 'audiophile' as I do not have dog ears apparently. I do hear some differences though just fine. A big time music FAN! So much fun just listening nowadays. All I want music-wise anymore is still, well recorded physical media. Next one will be the Steven Wilson mixed Blu Ray of Phil Collins, Face Value. That man is awesome at what he does....

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My feeling is they don't really care about "hearing." They get pleasure from the argument, not the listening.

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Lon, to some extent I agree but there’s also another perspective. I don’t consider myself an expert by any means but I do feel like I can hear the subtle differences in small system tweaks. My wife and I both love music and while I can be fanatical (delusional) about my stereo, she can be happy listening through a Bluetooth speaker. And there are times I just want to listen to music and not be fanatic about it. When I go to a live event I’m not thinking “the sound man can do better if they…”. I can just enjoy it.
I had the pleasure of using a First Watt SIT-4 for a few months earlier this year and if I could have found a buyer for my 300b I would have kept the SIT-4. There’s something to be said for something that just sounds “right” the way it is without needing constant tweaking. And the SIT-4 had it, in my room, with my source and speakers, yada yada. I think that’s really what we’re all after. We just want “that” sound. And if you can find it without worrying about a scratchy volume pot or crackling tube… hey, I want that.
But this is a separate discussion from someone who thinks all cables sound the same and all digital is the same digital.
I came to Deware for the Zen mentality. Super simple signal chain that sounds amazing and eliminates the weak links. The more simple and less tweaking I can do while still getting that sound, the better.

What Kam said.