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Crazy Idea? (Read 364 times)
Bottlehead
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Crazy Idea?
04/16/26 at 02:37:48
 
OK, Audio Wizards - and especially those of you who have built listening rooms, or altered existing rooms for audio. Everything that I’ve read tells me that parallel walls are problematic, but most of the time there’s nothing to be done about it. I’m carving off some space from my home office for a listening room. It’s the smallest of Steve’s room dimensions with an 8’ ceiling: 9’ wide by 11’ long. I’m attaching a drawing of an idea to make the long walls non-parallel. There’s nothing that I can do about the other walls, floor or ceiling. As you can see, I have a couple of things going for me with the closet opening along the front wall, a design that’s open to change, and the ability to add whatever absorbers or diffusers that I want. I have an idea that in a room this small, absorbers will be more important, especially in the corners. This little project may lead you to conclude that Wife Acceptance Factor is not an issue for me, and you would be correct. So this is just a little experiment. To avoid having a door into the room, I’m making the 3’ wall at the left front of the room moveable (on felt slides), but still able to hold treatment. So my question remains - is this a crazy idea with little chance of making a difference? Or something worth trying? Feedback, please.

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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #1 - 04/16/26 at 02:39:44
 
Hmmm…not sure how to size the drawing down. Sorry about that. I’ll see what I can figure out.
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MM
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #2 - 04/16/26 at 02:54:55
 
If it were me, I would start with the Sabine equation and shoot for 0.5 ms.  Then you’ll know your problem areas. I should say problem areas aside from bass. Bass is a given and you’ll need some thick (10-12”) treatments to address 100hz and down. Depending on your surfaces, furniture, and decor, bass treatment may be sufficient. I’d start with bass treatments in the side corners and side walls, diffusion front and back walls.
A 2-4” cloud on the ceiling is nice but realistically your ceiling height will start getting pretty cramped with ceiling treatment. A thick rug with a pad under can be sufficient.
I thick this kind of treatment is more effective than trying to change your room dimensions. Or change your dimension by adding the thickness of the bass treatment.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #3 - 04/16/26 at 03:00:22
 
Thanks for the feedback MM. I’m going to give my drawing one more shot.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #4 - 04/16/26 at 03:01:33
 
Well, not exactly what I was hoping for, but it will have to do.
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Donnie
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #5 - 04/16/26 at 13:22:03
 
Bottlehead,
I have questions.

What is not parallel?
I calculated up your 8.5' long wall that is offset by .5' at 3.366 degrees. Is that enough of not parallel to matter?

Would building "coves" from the ceiling down help? Think of 30 to 45 degree facets from the ceiling down to maybe 6' on the sidewalls.

Sorry I'm just mulling this stuff around in my brain this morning.
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CAJames
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #6 - 04/16/26 at 15:12:47
 
I tried to make a more web friendly version of your drawing.



I'm no expert but for a room this small I fee like the difference between parallel walls and what you propose is pretty minimal. Like MM suggests, I'd focus on a thick rug with a pad and treatments for the walls and corners.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #7 - 04/16/26 at 19:19:44
 

I would go for a symmetrical layout, forget the bumped out wall.  Use open baffle speakers, ours can touch the side walls.  Put some bass traps in the rear closet corners.  diffuse the entire rear wall, do the side walls at the first reflection point.  Put carpet with a thick pyle onto a commercial 1/2 inch pad.  Listen and tweak from there.
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Bottlehead
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Reply #8 - 04/16/26 at 23:34:31
 
Thanks, Steve. I’ll incorporate your suggestions, including the bass traps in the closet corners. I had planned on putting bass traps in the four corners of the room, but I hadn’t considered the closet.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #9 - 04/17/26 at 05:07:02
 
Donnie, I think that you’re right - not enough not parallel to make a difference. Still working on the right treatments.

CAJ, thanks for resizing my drawing, and for the suggestions.

I found an absorber chandelier that I ordered from Amazon. I’ll try to post it, but my posting skills seem to be substandard. Maybe I’ll just link to the website.

Thanks, all.
Randy
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #10 - 04/17/26 at 05:09:23
 
Still looking.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #11 - 04/17/26 at 05:19:37
 
OK, here it is. I ordered two, so we’ll see.
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bd2b6ea8-8c43-4bef-880c-f25430e14427___CR1029991229_PT0_SX1464_V1___.jpeg
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MM
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #12 - 04/17/26 at 15:08:27
 
No disrespect intended, Bottlehead, and only saying this as someone that has spent too much money on ineffective room treatments over several decades, but that Amazon product is purely aesthetic. If that’s your goal that’s fine, but for sound treatment it will have relatively minor effects above 4000 hz and no effect below 4000 hz. Considering the cost of those things you might consider setting up a free consult with a company like GIK and they will look at your room and tell you the best bang for your buck.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #13 - Yesterday at 01:15:02
 
MM, I’m wondering how you know about this product. Have you tried it? Let me know your experience. My plan is to try it as is, and if I don’t think that it’s effective, I’m thinking that I can put another layer of absorbing material on top of the chandelier. So, we’ll see what I can do with it. With only an 8’ ceiling, I won’t have a lot of room above the chandelier, but there’s a little bit of wiggle room.

Randy
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MM
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #14 - Yesterday at 05:48:54
 
I have 100% zero experience with this product, poor physics abilities, and mediocre math skills. Given your room dimensions your problem frequencies are going to live in the 50-220 hz range. To address these frequencies you need mass and volume. Absorbers 10-12 inches thick, and a lot of square footage of this. A good place to start is four 24x48 absorbers, 12 inches thick. As many as you can stand is even better. These are going to be addressing the higher frequencies too, and all the harmonics of your low problem frequencies. But you need the depth, mass, and volume to treat the 50-220 hz range, and the Amazon product just isn’t physically capable of doing it.

Again, not trying to be a dick, just sharing my experience and trying to save you a buck. No disrespect intended.
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GroovySauce
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #15 - Yesterday at 13:39:48
 
I’m going to echo and expand on some of the comments.

I agree with MM, the chandelier will no do anything for low frequencies, I’m guessing in the grand scheme of things it will be a nice addition, once the lower frequencies are addressed.

I wouldn’t waste one second with a concern about the walls being parallel or not.

In a room that size, the biggest challenge is going to be reducing the lower frequency reverb.

It’s relatively easy to lower the mid and high frequencies. When you get into lower mid bass and bass, it’s going to be problematic. If reverb isn’t lowered uniformly across the frequency spectrum, the room will not sound correct.

In my experience, many times when people say the room has too much treatment or is over treated, it is because the mid and high frequencies reverb has been reduced to a much greater extent than the bass and lower mids.

This is true of most rooms, not just small ones. Small rooms just exacerbate the issue.

You could stick 12” of 703 fiberglass treatment on all the walls and still not do much to reduce below 100Hz.

What I’m about to suggest is a gamble and may not give very good results. For a budget conscious approach, figure out how many boxes of 703 you can fit in the closet and put as many in there as possible. Don’t open the boxes or plastic wrap. One point I did something similar. I bought a bunch of boxes of 703 and lined the wall behind the speakers with them. It wasn’t the prettiest or best solution, for the price I don’t know how to beat it. I would keep the closet doors closed.

This approach will handle as much of the lower frequency reverb as possible with minimal to no impact on higher frequencies.

Even with diaphragmatic absorbers it will be hard to manage the lower frequencies in that space.

Will you be able to get enjoyable sound in the room? Careful tuning and experimentation you can get musical enjoyment in the room.

If I was working with that room with a realistic budget. I would be looking at small speakers that are not full range. Starting to roll off at 60Hz possibly higher.  Shove as much 703 in the closet as possible. 2 panels of 703 2” thick at the first reflection points. Once I got the sound signature from there, fine tune.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Crazy Idea?
Reply #16 - Yesterday at 20:48:17
 
Hey MM, I don’t think that you’re being a dick at all. I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. This is my first attempt at putting together a dedicated listening space, rather than just setting up a system in a regular untreated room, so any advice is appreciated. I took your advice and looked at the GIK website, and also the ASC website. I’m thinking that I’ll get the most bang for the buck out of corner soffits. I’ll probably make them myself out of the fiberglass material that Groovy mentioned, as buying and then shipping something that large in the quantity that I’m going to need will be too much $$. Plus I need to justify all the money that I have spent over the years on tools.

Groovy, thanks for all the recommendations. I looked up the 703 fiberglass, and some other stuff, and I think that the 703 will be my best bet. That and some leftover rock wool batts that I have from a previous framing project. As for the speakers, these are the ones that I will try first:
https://www.lii-song.com/product/one-pair-6-5-inch-bookshelf-full-range-speaker-...
After that, I have several pairs of open baffles to try, including a pair that I bought from Randy, and modified with the Betsy Alnico drivers with phase plugs instead of whizzer cones. So I have lots of experiments ahead of me. Should be fun, but I have a ways to go, as I just got the home office painted, which means that I haven’t even started building the partition walls for the listening room. I’m on “retired time”, so it takes me a long time to do anythihg.

Thanks for the help, guys!
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