I had a similar experience, Artman. I posted about it here: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1765298343

The only main difference is that my Delta Pro’s fan is intolerable to me in my listening space. My plan - somewhere on my to-do list - is to hardwire it into my dedicated circuit for my system near the panel in my utility room.

Does the Delta 3 Max not have a fan? It might make more sense for me to just pick one of these up instead.

MM, I cannot see a fan opening on the Delta 3 Max and have not heard a fan running when I was listening thru it. I was initially inspired by your post and considered responding there but could not locate it. Thanks for the link.

JBzen, Thanks for an explanation for the difference in the bass. It had me puzzled.

Hey Geno. I used a number of power conditioners and isolation transformers before this. The caveat being some were in different rooms with different amps.

I had best results when charging when I was listening off the battery and charging when I wasn’t listening. As I mentioned though, the fan on my unit can be somewhat obnoxious. I have two amps and streamer/DAC plugged into a snubstation zero and that plugged into the Ecoflow. I’ve tried plugging devices directly into the Delta too. I didn’t notice a difference but it was easier to plug/unplug a single cord from the SSZ than three individual cords from devices.

I haven’t tried it with any analog, only digital.

I’m inclined to think if you are happy with what you have then don’t go down this rabbit hole unless you were buying it anyway as a home backup. And FWIW, my system runs about 180 watts and the Delta Pro will power it for 16+ hours on an 80% charge (I use 20%-80% charge for battery health).

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Fan noise would definitely be a deal breaker. My racks are open (and full) so it would simply be on the floor next to them.

I really would like to give this a try, just to see if any improvement might be had. I’ll do some more research, and see if I can find the quietest candidate.

Best,

Geno

Artman, I’m looking forward to your results removing the SSZ from your system. I can’t hear a difference with it in or out of place. It simply converts three outlets to one for me. I feel like it will soon to be on the market.

MM,

I've spent several hours listening to the change after removing the Snubstation and it sounds a little better. I have a few immediate impressions:

The positions of instruments in the soundstage has better density, especially the position in depth. I hear more air in the highs and a little more detail. I find I can turn my volume down about 1 1/2 db and still hear the equivalent detail as before. It just sounds a little bit closer to real.

Right now, I am feeding my power straight into my Swiss Digital Fuse Boxes. Removing all my previous filtering products sounds cleanest in my system.

I was sitting at my kitchen table listening to my favorite recording of Bach’s cello suites, and reading the updates on this Ecoflow thread, and what happens?  Our power goes out!  28 customers out of nearly 1.7 million customers served by Evergy Corp. have lost power, and 24 of them are our neighbors and us.  Power should be back on within a couple of hours.  It’s 14 degrees in Kansas City, so hopefully the estimated fix time is accurate.

As others have said, I am also very interested in these Ecoflow battery units.  For decades I have wanted to purchase a big power re-generator but never could force myself to shell out thousands for cleaner power. This, however, has me pretty excited.  Looking forward to more feedback.  As promising as this seems, maybe I’ll buy one or two of these units and start providing my own feedback!

I've had a hard time tearing myself away from the stereo this weekend. It's like every piece of music I play sounds like I am hearing it for the very first time, even if also somewhat familiar. Between a soundstage that has varied from a sound booth to a large cathedral, I hear the space  immediately. I think the primary difference overall is that I can hear even more detail than before. That has translated into hearing different, quieter sounds that were previously lost in the mix.

The only thing left I have to say is this change in my system was a complete, unexpected surprise. Who knew that a clean power supply could do this?

Lon,

That was an unsuccessful attempt at humor. It actually makes more sense to feed the stereo clean power than clean up the power via various line conditioners. It is simpler, cleaner and now, it is actually relatively inexpensive to do so. One would also have emergency backup power available when the need arises.

I’m really stoked you are having the same experience I had with mine, Artman. If we had a “like” button here your post #15 would have gotten one from me.

I almost bought a Delta 3 yesterday and decided to wait. As I mentioned before the fan on my delta pro is a deal breaker for me to have in my listening room. But the two dedicated circuits that feed my system run through 12 inches of diaphragmatic absorption and 8 inches of concrete to my utility room where my main panel lives. My plan is to run my primary dedicated line into the delta pro, and the pro into panel, but also feed the delta pro with two 400-watt solar panels. Chicken and the egg situation, I need to reroof and reside my house this summer before the panels go in. But in the meantime I can wire up the delta pro to the panel and rewire the primary dedicated circuit to the delta pro. All I need is time.  [smiley=lolk.gif]

Keep reminding me how good it is. That will prompt me to get moving.

I thought I read Artman just leaves it plugged in and running all the time. I was running mine off battery and charging when I wasnt listening but that’s an extra step.

Keep us posted on your impressions. Which unit did you get?

I paid $250 for a R2Max. Same one ArtMan placed in his system permanently. I am really excited to see how it plays in mine. Loved the comparison between the two models ArtMan. Especially the comment of no noticeable difference between the two. Tells me that the sine wave converter boards are the same between models but with increasing output/charging capabilities on the other end.
Geno, I think a full charge would be best before playing the music. I'll bet the unit will be running the cooling fan at high when charging.
This thread got me wondering why a larger gauge power wire home run feed to music systems will increase bass output when the electronics pulls current that would require much smaller wiring? A light bulb went off in the old noggin that is working it overtime So far I came up with some theories that has to do with 60 cycle power interacting with, let's say a 20 cycle sound wave. Is that long sound pressure wave exciting long runs of thin gauge wire that is pulsing with 60 cycles of electron flow. Could this interaction be masking the bass music flow in our amps And, or is this relationship also present in the flow of electrons that is connected?
It takes 3 cycles of mains power to produce one 20hz bass wave. Those 3 cycles are seen by that one cycle wave. Is this a distraction so to speak? Remember the speed of light has a different set of rules that fall in the law of physics bucket. Our electronics mixes the two; sound and electron flow. Hmmmm. Any thoughts?

Quote:


Do you really want to go there?

Full disclosure, I used to know this stuff better 40+ years ago when I was still in school but this is what has stuck with me.

Let's start with these two ideas. What we call "electric current" is much more of an electromagnetic wave propagating thru the electrons in a wire rather than electrons themselves flowing like water in pipe. And AC current, either mains power or your music, propagates close to the surface of the conductor.

Larger conductors are better, not just for your power but, everything else being equal, also for your speaker cables and interconnects because they have a larger surface area and the current is more widely distributed. The exact details as to why Maxwell's Equations prefer less rather than more current per cubic volume escapes me, but the easy answer is the lower the current density the more the wire looks like a perfect conductor. How that actually feeds into your music sounding better is a much more complicated question. Similar to why do tubes that measure so similarly sound so different? or why do digital interconnects matter?

Those are my thoughts, FWIW.

Thanks for that CAJames.

Sean looks like your plate is full. I was caught between 2 houses in the 90s. It was such a relief when one was sold. I feel your frustration. If I can be assistance give me a call.

My Ecolab River 2 Max is making its way around the country. Started out central
went west to the border and now on its way back east. It will be interesting to see what is in the package at a weight of 2.2 pounds!

The bass in my system is awesome presently. The newly added subs with tube amp power seem to align perfectly. The grounding boxes brought out impressive texture. The sound stage is great with or without the C-9 with some differences(material dependant). Blackness and air could be better or has been. The search continues.....

I haven’t noticed that issue but I don’t have the R2 so…

What do you think about the fan noise? How noticeable is it to you?

Also, I saw your capacitor banks in your Chariot thread, but there’s not much detail. Do you have a schematic or link to share about what you did there?

MM,
I spent a short time with it in the Charoit and did not detect any fan noise while playing music. The fan did cycle on and off regularly when charging and took a while before actually turning on. It may have not been in use long enough at 139 watts to need cooling.

The cap banks in the Charoit were created with Jon Risch's input. I would give you a link to his papers but it seems that it is plagued with spam. I have a hard copy. Will dig those up soon and try to post readable pics.

CAJames I've noticed differences in sine wave shape before and after initiating the cap banks. So it is measurable. Our ears are the final read though.

I found that the River 2 Max shipped with version 1.0 software. The latest is 4.xxx! Did an update. Maybe that might solve the "wonky" behavior that was experienced. We will see shorty when it is hooked later in the system encompassing the cap banks and bobc's amps.

EcoFlow in the house!

I have my ZLC plugged into it, as well as an Emotiva power strip.

I powered on my Zen monoblocs, and as is my regular routine, turned them both up almost all the way (2 clicks from all the way). I’ve always stopped there, because hum starts to become pretty audible at 75% volume, and 2 clicks from full has always produced as much hum as I can tolerate. There is a preamp feature in my Dac/Streamer that allows me to control the volume.

With the EcoFlow in use, I turned both amps to full gain - with total silence. This is the first time that has happened since I bought my first Zen, 9 years ago. I’ve always had a small amount of hum. As a matter of fact, I got rid of my ZP3 several years ago, because I could not control the hum. And dirty power, now looks to have been the main problem.

Like Art and MM described, there is now a blacker background, and the bass is better defined. Cleaner from top to bottom.

So, all I can say is, thank you guys very much, for bringing this to light!

Quote from Art from a few weeks ago:

It's like every piece of music I play sounds like I am hearing it for the very first time, even if also somewhat familiar. Between a soundstage that has varied from a sound booth to a large cathedral, I hear the space  immediately. I think the primary difference overall is that I can hear even more detail than before. That has translated into hearing different, quieter sounds that were previously lost in the mix.

The only thing left I have to say is this change in my system was a complete, unexpected surprise. Who knew that a clean power supply could do this?

This is a perfect description of what I’ve heard during my listening session this evening. I actually had to check several different times, to make sure I wasn’t listening to different versions of songs I know well.

Quote:


Love when that happens!

I am experiencing a lot of what all are saying here with the R2Max. Not sure if it is positive for my system though.

First the cap banks cause runaway with the EcoFlow River 2 Max. In other words it slowly causes the R2Max overload shutting down.  I was worried that might happen and it did after a few minutes of play. Without the cap banks energized and plugged into the balanced transformer with bobc's amp also in play, I can hear a lot of detail that was masked before. Maybe too much? Cold comes to mind.

Sometimes I feel like a baboon fool with my system. I just replaced speaker wires with ZSTYX two days ago. Now also trying out R2Max with the new cables maybe just two much at one time giving such poor results!

I'll sort it out eventually. This is my add at this juncture:
Updating the R2max with latest software version fixed the "wonky" experience.
When unplugged from mains turn it off to avoid slow battery drain.
Running the Chariot as described above draws 248 watts which translates into 70 % efficiency rate. A bit lower then published specs. Maybe the Kill A Watt meter is off a bit?
The cooling fan takes a while to come on. It produces about 60db noise about an inch away. This is not ideal for my environment and will need addressed by placing the unit outside the room. This is very doable without long runs in my case.
The heat generated by the converter is also a concern. It blows very warm air. Once the fan turns on it seems to stay on. Placing the unit outside the room of course will eliminate this issue in my case.
I like the EcoFlow ecosystem. The app is well polished. There are other models that will suite my adventures well. Hopefully one will find a home in the Charoit.

Geno,

I'm so glad it was able to remove your hum. I would have hated to have to live with hum in my system. I bought my power station to have a backup power solution. It never occurred to me to power my system with it at the time. Now it seems like it was the most obvious thing to explore, the potential for a clean power source. Being able to get our systems closer to the real thing, relatively inexpensively, is always worth sharing with others. I've learned a lot from the contribution from other on this forum.

JBZen,

It appears the more power needed from the power station is reflected in greater heat and the fan running more often. It didn't run as hot or run the fan as much in my 110W system. I probably would have switched to  my Delta 3 Max if my cabinet solution was not available, even if it would have looked cosmetically out of place.

MM,

In the last couple years, getting rid of noise in my system was my primary focus, whether realized consciously or not. With this reduction of noise, I began to see further and further into the detail. Using the power station to power my system is another step along that path. I've found my preference has been towards tonal neutrality and my choice in tubes has been a reflection of that. Prior to this experience, I had always thought that tonality was a reflection of the characteristics of a tube. What I have discovered, approaching it from tonally neutral tubes, is that the rich detail and tonality comes from the amount of detail that I can hear. For me, getting richer tonality from a tube usually involves some masking of detail, especially in the bass regions.

The more music I listen to and especially different types of music, the richer detail translates into more solid images, greater depth and a more sophisticated tonality. My little power station, delivering clean power to my system, takes me another step towards what I hear in real life.

Quote:


That sounds like the transformer is humming. The common cause is DC on the AC line.

I was more concerned with the R2Max not being able to start the basic need appliances in my case. Never thought that the fan would be needed for 175 watts of demand from the audio system.

The new ZSTYX are easing into a nice add so far. I played "Amused To Death" last night for the first time in a good while. There is a lot of subsonic info in that CD. It was a whole new experience that could be felt. Once I get a handle on the new cables the R2Max will be tried again. If it can add what I like to the music, a Classic 2 will be ordered.

Thanks for a detailed experience Geno. Keep it coming.

Oh, I think lifting the ground by pulling the plug it created an imbalance between the EcoFlow and ZLC. Some devices don't play well with inverters. This has happened many times with my use of inverters over the years. Keep it plugged in

I haven’t had any issues with the Delta Pro the way you are describing, Geno. My preference is to plug it in to charge and unplug to listen. Different units though so maybe different circuits?

The fan on the Delta Pro will run whether the unit is plugged in or not, so there’s no getting around that noise. Again, different units perhaps.

JB, like you the first thing I did was plug in my primary sources to make sure I could run them in a power outage. That was a success. I currently have my important circuits (fridge, main lights, etc.) on the same leg and I made a double ended cord so that in an outage I could turn off the mains switch to the breaker and backfeed the important circuits from the Ecoflow. Not code but could save my bacon in a pinch.

I have a 28 amp table saw stored in a shed without power that I needed to make some trim stock over the weekend. The Ecoflow couldn’t power that saw, but that was more of a test than a need.

I see the delta 3 classic is $399 on the Ecoflow website. https://us.ecoflow.com/products/ecoflow-delta-3-classic-portable-power-station-1...
024wh-flash-sale-1?variant=55488081821769&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=pro
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jARIsAGDBuEDL57SlEhcvxsPKJ06uOj0lCQmaUHhp7YzwvdH0721Z8UKegW_fvhYaArTCEALw_wcB

MM, what are the total watts, input into yours?

Geno, that classic looks like a plastic step stool. I think that will fit just fine in my scheme. Does it get warm with extended use? Nice RtoR

MM, I am wondering if EcoFlows have backflow protection. Doing what you described with a double plug was the reason my 3 of 5 inverters failed. The other two just quit working.

ArtMan the Delta 3 Classic is advertised at under 30db with 600 watts or less draw. Perfect for our use. Definitely in the sweet spot!

I see Renewable Outdoors has the Delta 3 Classic for $386. Going to call then today to see how well they back their sales.

Leaving it unplugged might defeat a backflow safeguard if there is one.

The use of inverters in the motorhome and constant different scenarios encountered with hookups while traveling caused the issue of failure. Long story short, after 2 failures because of a haphazard safeguard, I ended up installing a second transfer switch using the time delay in that switch giving time for a relay to automatically disconnect the inverter’s output from the electrical system and switching the travel circuits back to the motor homes transfer switch. Worked well for 18 years until the transfer switch’s timer circuit failed causing a third failure.

Quote:


In theory even if the sine wave is the same there is the issue of source impedance. And that is basically how fast it can source current in response to transients. PS Audio makes a big deal about it, probably the only way to know for sure is to get one of each .

Quote:


C'mon, this your first day as an audiophile?

Quote:


IMO they are hyping fast power delivery. The idea is power at your outlet is dirty but fast. Power conditioning generally trades cleaner for slower while PSA gives you both clean and fast. But I claim no expertise on the topic.

No expert! Me neither.

While it is understandable and a good sales point to promote quick response to transient demand, I think it is moot here. We are dealing with a general purpose device that has passed our ears as a positive addition to date. I’ve heard a lot that is described in this thread with my initial session. This device can give quick response to demand with 100% surge capacity at the outlet. Our romex strung house wiring can not do that. Fast response at the house outlet . Nope.

I did get a hold of Renewable Outdoors. They do the legwork on warranty issues. Chance is it will not be needed but gives added comfort. To get the $386 price one needs to painlessly join their insider club. Free shipping. 30 day return at customer cost if its not an issue with the device.

Quote:


I totally believe the Ecoflow sounds faster, better, all that and a bag of chips, compared to your romex strung house wiring. But no circuit element: resistor, capacitor, battery + inverter or whatever, responds faster, i.e. has a higher slew rate, than a good conductor like romex. Esp. if home run'd back to the breaker box. Clearly there is more to sounding fast than just "fast" and what you really need is a combination of clean and fast enough.

I've been listening to a lot of music in the last week. I've listened to so many pieces of music that a lot of it has become a blur. I wanted to mention another quality that I've noticed that is new to me. One thing evident in my listening has been an enhancement in microdynamics. This is especially true with orchestral music but also in many other types of music. Being able to clearly hear the microdynamic structures of pieces of music, at smaller increments, at lower levels, is giving me a broader appreciation of many aspects of music itself. That is one of the qualities that comes with clean power, familiar sounding yet new.

I have no idea if the PS Audio power regenerator gives a purer sound than my $400+ EcoFlow. I'm been too busy listening to music to care.

Lon,

I had several Veri-Fi powering conditioner products in my system and they were very helpful when I was plugging into the wall. With my EcoFlow feeding me power, my system sounds better with all of them out. It was subtle but was associated with the products slightly masking detail compared with only my EcoFlow plugged into into my SDFB's. What you are describing I heard before the EcoFlow but this goes a little deeper down into detail. That might be why I could lower my volume 1 1/2 db's and still hear subjectively equivalent detail.

Lon,

When I was using the word more, I was describing what I was hearing after pulling the Veri-Fi conditioners versus with them in, in my system. It was not meant as a comparison to your hearing or your system. I only meant I was hearing what you were describing before I made the change, as well as after the change. In my system, it was a little more detail than before. I have no issue with you described before, only I heard different in my system and thought it might be helpful information.

Once I resolved the brightness issues in my system, more detail has always added to the realism, not taken away. That is why I equate more detail as something positive in my system. I have also experienced the opposite before and understand a different perspective.

I understood your position, thanks for elucidating it. I've resolved brightness in my system as well, but more "detail" has always moved my balance away from a satisfying sound for me, so experiencing more detail has always been a step backward for me, I know that it is different for others. I no longer even know if that is a possible risk--I get an almost disturbing amount of detail right now, with this particular implementaion of the two LNBH, SSZ, SFDB and also Mad Scientist and Telos Audio things.

I didn't mean to come off combative. I really am happy that you have found this plateau and are just listening to music--that is a great thing and when I am happiest is when I am just listening to the music in awe--I've landed there now.

Geno, if the audio gods do steer Steve in this direction it would yield interesting results. And yes by choice I am using a very different type of speaker.

My system took a dive for the worst as of late. Making matters worse, and after Friday's marathon session, I woke up Saturday only to find the missus wants a bigger one I swelled up with determination heading down into Charoit and proceeded to rip things apart
With priority set the ZSTYXs were snapped off. My custom made OCC braided cables reinstalled straight to the Crystals from rhodium copper spades connected to the SE84UFO25 without any slime. The SE84UFO25 was moved to the center of the isolation platform. The stage was set. With juice supplied, my mistress sang out loud with a familiar soothing tone
After a celebratory Genesee the EcoFlow River 2 Max was set in place and plugged into the cap banks and system plugged into it's output. It powered a few albums never getting warm or sounding out of place. The music surrounding like the missus first hug. The touch of soft skin soothing my troubled mind. A new calm feel over me heading back upstairs to order a Delta 3 Classic so the missus can watch TV during an outage

Thanks Lon. It was corrected. What I really need here is a proof reader and keyboard that fits all 10 fingers.

MM, I kept thinking that there was another open baffle user on the forum, but I could not place it. Looking back through the forum threads, I finally figured it out - it was you! Or another you, anyway - you were Gilf before

Speaking of other open baffle dudes, Tom, are you out there? Have not heard from you in a while. Donnie, have you heard from him? I hope all is well.

Since I automatically look for the like button

ArtMan, do be so self-deprecating. You handle words very well.

You'll enjoy the JR. I am sure. Give it a little time and attention, I'm far more "wowed" by it now two weeks later than I was when it first arrived.

Lon,

I may have exaggerated a little bit but I am not a writer by nature and I struggle with it at times. I can speak a lot better than I can write.

JBZen,

I am seriously considering getting a Delta 3 Classic also. When my Dynagrid Jr. arrives sometime in the not too distant future, I wonder if the extra power is likely to result in my River 2 Max fan running louder/more often. I think I will check on deals.

Quote:


I ran the R2Max for several hours plugged in from the get go yesterday. The fan never turned on. My system pulled between 220/244 watts during that period. The converter was cool to the touch after that time. The two units we are talking about here also can act as UPS that can switch ultra fast between power sources. That means the the pure sine wave circuitry is in constant use because by nature it would take some time to stabilize once started. I think it is the reason why we hear no difference with it plugged in or running by battery. The trick here is balancing the charging cycles between listening sessions and preserving battery longevity, I think.

JB, you’re right. Up until now I have been running mine off battery and charging when not listening. Today I ran it while plugged in and once the battery charged the fan never ran again.  Beauty.

One thing I notice is that the amp is noticeably louder off the Ecoflow than off wall power. I rarely move the volume control on my amp and instead use my streamer/dac for volume control. I am very much aware of different volume setting on the streamer, with 0-100 steps. I typically have 100 on the dial set to ~90db. I can’t go over 75-80 on the dial when plugged into the Ecoflow without exceeding 90 db and being way too loud.

BTW- Geno. I recall my 300b was drawing about 180 watts but with the UFO it’s only pulling 73 watts (including the Crown and CXN100).

Oh that’s a good point, Geno. I wonder if the higher draw of the SEWE300b would make the fan kick on more often?

Interesting that you get better low end from vinyl. I find digital to be better. More solid, tighter, faster. I think you have a much better vinyl rig than I ever have. But what I get from digital currently keeps me happy enough to explore other opt.

I got a River 2 Pro. For all the research I did I was shocked to see how small it is. Remember those Colman lunchbox/coolers with the lid that slid to one side? It's about that size, very portable. I went with this one to break the ice and please my curiosity. It will also get use at softball tournaments/games, outdoors and outages. The pro has a 768Kw battery which should power the stereo for a few hours unplugged.

I set it up on the digital system upstairs. This setup had the amp into the wall and everything else went through a Furman. The living room and dining room are on this same circuit. Currently pulling 113w and unplugged from the wall using a UFO, Maple Tree Pre, Denafrips Ares 15th and Iris 12th.

First things first, my UFO always had a hum starting at 90% volume to 100%. Not anymore. I'm excited to see if this holds true in the main system. It bothered me that it was there, but not while listening.

I'm about 3 hrs in, so very early. The volume with the Ecoflow is definitely louder than without it, it's like a completely different system. I've had to fiddle with knobs to get a new sweet spot. It is VERY different vs wall power, I didn't care for it at first to be honest. I expected a difference, but not this night and day difference. It's pulling me in more and more as I go. It's going to be a few days where it sits before going down into the main system for a try. It's going to be interesting to see how the battery does vs all the fancy outlets and dedicated circuit. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend to try that out.

Fan noise - the Pro seems to have two fans one pulling air in on the right and the fan on the left pushing hot air out. I just plugged the Ecoflow into wall to get the fan to kick on. Im listening to digital but when I plugged it in to the wall it sounded like a stylus catching a fur ball for 5-10 seconds. Anyway, sitting in a chair with the unit on the floor eight feet away I can't hear the fan while the music is playing, between tracks it's there, but not annoying. In a smaller room it could be an issue. Some may hear the fan differently, but this one is seems ok so far.

My unit was also on firmware 1.0 when i opened it. The gauges on the screen went crazy when I plugged my phone into it. Time will tell if that improves, not too worried about it.

Quote:


It seems that I misspoke about the energy management setting in the app. The 20% setting is where the device will shutdown while using battery power. The lowest rate the unit will automatically recharge is at 50% and hold that charge rate. So it would take some user input to accomplish a charge rate of 100% by resetting the rate in the energy management setting then changing it back to 50% once charged.

I will definitely take it to camp this summer. There are many times when a R2Max will come in handy there.

Another positive is that the CXNV2 will not shut down in the event of a power outage. At least in my configuration. If there is any loss of power even for a second or two which happens in my case often, the CXNV2 will not restore back in standby mode. The CXNV2 supplies music to the whole house system, office system, and tech shop as well as the Charoit. It does get a bit irritating when in another area and the streamers app will not power it up because of a power interruption at some point since last use.

Artman, yes VIVID is a good term, not bright but very, very clear.

Regarding power cords and receptacles...I chose the Pro because it had 4 grounded outlets. For the digital system I use all four, when I switch to the basement, I'll only be using one - UFO25, CSP and ZP3 into a fourway box and SDFB into the Ecoflow. I'm using the supplied Ecoflow cable from the Ecoflow to the wall. It's a rather stout cable vs what you usually get with components.

For now, I'm using cheap cables in the digital system. Tonight I plan to use two Decware cords with Furutech ends. I'll report back on how that goes. I did find one of my cheap Amazon "audiophile" cables wouldn't fit in the Ecoflow, the ground bit just won't go into the receptacle.

The ecoflow has been off and unplugged from the wall, AC outlets ON and  components still plugged in. The battery has drained 50% in 14 hours. The Iris DDC is still "on" as it has no power button. Just turned AC outlets off with hope that stops the slow drain.

Guys,

I’ve got Decware cables everywhere, except from the Eco to the wall.

John, is the cable you just made, plugged into the wall?

Art, I have not compared yet, but did you say that the female end was too large (aftermarket cable) to plug into the Eco?

Yes Geno, from the wall to Ecoflow. It instantly improves transient response. Right now I'm experiencing the largest, deepest, spatial stage ever here.

I'm with you!

Doug,

The EcoFlow Delta 3 Classic should be sufficient for your needs.

Just plug the power station into the wall outlet and then plug the 8 piece outlet into the EcoFlow. It should be that simple.

Very good to hear, Art!  I ordered one from Decware last week - supposed to be here tomorrow

Even though JBZen said he heard a difference when he put a quality power cord from the wall to the EcoFlow, I still couldn't quite wrap my head around why the cord from the wall to the power plant would make a difference. Once I had the power cords in, I wanted to try and yes it did. But I am conceptually a little at a loss that a small refinement could be so clearly audible. I still am a little cautious since I really don't know the full measure until the power cords break in.

I installed my other power cord to my DAC a little while ago and I can still detect a small difference in the sound, although presently less than the other 2 power cords. I still have break-in to do.

Lon,
It appears you may be right about power cords. This is the first time in a while that I have used regular power cords in my system and I can clearly hear the difference to and from the power plant.

Lon, I will have have to give that a listen,  I heard the Dead  “on their way” to Egypt.  The New Riders and Willie Nelson and Family opened for them.  It was at Giants' Stadium in NJ and I really enjoyed the show.  A different type of A/B test on the way!

My system is sounding great and my new Caintuck piano black baffles with Lii song F-15s sound great.  I was invited by Randy to stop in to his place and got to listen to his system which was magical.

He played “Big Bad John” by Geoff Castelucci.  Good for checking out the bass.

Randy is a great guy and I enjoyed the visit.

Lon has been one of my Decware “yodas”.

Steve is never in a hurry to answer my “how do I turn a screwdriver” questions.

Hats off to all three of them!

Sgt. Pepper

Quote:


There is no doubt with a 10 gauge shielded power cord. The difference is obvious. One don't need a blind test or gauges with our systems.
I've not spent much time listening lately. I can not really give any detailed opinion on the differences.

I found in my experience and system that directional power cords are best for cleaning up some noise and go a long way for eliminating hum(ground loop). Also, audio ICs benefit greatly being directional with shielding. The direction of both power and signal cables should always start from the left(source) and terminate unconnected at the right inside the shield of the following end. Most economical power cord ends are made of plastic which will lead to some acceptable leakage IMO. I also found it is a necessity to check Chinese work with their power cables and ICs. Had to make a few of those right. Ideally audio IC ends are made of brass/copper and/or alloy plated with various metals. Nude copper is my preference. Unshielded plastic ends with audio signal are unacceptable IMO.

As far as wire size in both ICs, it seems that the larger the better is true. But, size should be tuned with ears-not science. It might be more a matter of practical means. It would be very impractical to run four ought cable to a room as well as using 10 gauge wire for audio interconnects.

Shorter is better. The longer the IC of both power and audio will generally create a time lag of response to demands. Resistance, capacitance, magnetism, time and dimension is all in play here. It is not just one or the other. Again IMO.

The R2Max's fan seems to not run with my routine in place. It is plugged in 24/7. The small wattage drawn by the CXNV2 on standby does not show up on R2Max's display. Over a 96 hour period just the streamer was used for about 3 hours when spinning in a different room increasing the draw on the R2Max. The stereo was not used in that time period. With that said, the battery charge is at 50% in 96 hours which prompts it to charge back at 100%. The fan might run then. I have not been in the room yet when that charging cycle begins. At that point it requires my attention to set it back to 50% charge cycle with the app. If I don't set it back it would start charging at a few % points maintaining max charge in case of a power outage. There is an automation section in the app that has if/then statements. Going to see if I can make my scheme automated next.

I have not noticed the fan run while listening to tunes in the Chariot using the R2Max in this manner. The unit is in the back of the isolation stage setting on the floor.

MM,

I missed out on the Decware cable sale, got to it too late. I checked out a number of power cables online and was hesitant to commit to any one. I finally bought some $40 generic "Audiophile" power cords that looked pretty solid in build. Having them here, the quality looks impressive for a $40 cable. The only thing I am sure of is they sound better than the EcoFlow power cord prior to break-in. The second cord will be used to power my DynaGrid Jr. when I receive it. It could still be a few months until that happens. I was able to use my existing Piggy cord to attach to my DAC. I can give you a link if you are interested for the power cords.

Lon,

I also trust my ears over any understanding that I could create for how things work. And like you and others, most everything at this point appears to involve subtleties. It is a wonderful place to be.

JBZen,

I bought a quality power strip to link my power conditioner to my DAC, laptop and preamp. Adding these ended adding another 10-15 watts to my flow from my EcoFlow. I am now up to 125 watts. I think the only time I ever heard my EcoFlow fan running was when I was charging it up, not when actually running my system. I've set my max charging draw at 200 watts when plugged in. That may possibly help when charging.

Thanks Artman. I missed the DHC3 sale too- Decware emails always go straight to my junk mail for some reason.
No reason to be ashamed of Chinese budget power cords. I have seven or so different types around. Most big name cables are coming from China anyway so it’s hit and miss what quality you get with the lower cost ones.

I always check the noise floor in all my cables and between all my cables currently there is as much as 10db difference. One of my preferred cables right now is actually a $30 cable. In my experience the problem with the budget cables isn’t the wire but the connectors. They are generally a good source of wire and throw some Furutech ends on them and they’ll hold their own. Funny though, I don’t find that Furutech connections generally have a tight connection that I feel good about.

Unlike others I don’t believe in using the same cables throughout my system. I think the demands of your main amp are different than what makes a DAC shine. All our systems, rooms, and musical tastes are different though- so this is just what I believe is best in my music room. So, that was my main reason for asking what cord you were using; just trying to put into context in my head “what would be the characteristics of a great power cord for connecting an ecoflow to the wall?”  

I still haven’t done any serious A/B testing on power cords with mine. I used the stock cable initially and switched to an 8ga copper homemade cable shortly after and that’s been there ever since.

HK,

The Delta 3 Classic (shown below) is just a bit smaller than a typical PC, and stands vertically. John’s pic above of his, is positioned horizontally, so a lower profile where you said you wanted to place it.

Thanks John for your observations on the River2 Max . The River2 Pro has a larger 800 watt capacity and I prefer the smaller footprint of the River line up, so I think it should work well in my setup.

HK

I wanted to get some feedback from Decware Ecoflow users now that some time has elapsed. Have any issues cropped up? Is the battery charge holding up well? Any additional comments or thoughts?

I plan to get an Ecoflow River model shortly. Thanks but.

HK

Been meaning to circle back around to this thread…things have got busy and sucked out most of my free time.  Anyhow, loving the River 2 Pro. I’ve only have me small issue, if I plug the EcoFlow in or unplug it from wall while the system is playing I get a fuzzy slow fizzle with the sound but it ramps right back up. Easy fix, don’t do that.

One thing I have noticed, and this goes back to Steve’s saying if there’s a weak link in the chain when using Decware amps you’ll hear it. I made a double outlet box out of an isobar strip that went south. I left the original power cable connected. Took awhile to figure out that cable was not worthy. Opened it back up and replaced it. Immediately the mid range “glare” I was getting here and there was gone. The whole system is now very good without fatigue. I suppose the lesson here is if you’re going with an EcoFlow it will expose “weaknesses”.

I had planned to try the EcoFlow on my vinyl rig. That hasn’t happened yet. I need to try it soon and if it works out a second EcoFlow will be ordered to keep from moving things back n forth.

I am very happy with the results. I don’t think you can go wrong with one of these units.

I do have to keep mine plugged in. If I unplug it, my ZLC buzzes at about 30db or so.

I am running my analog and digital into ZLC, into EcoFlow. I have found that if the unit is actively charging (limits set internally) I get a slight buzz through the speakers - only with digital play. Do not have same with analog. Not sure what causes this, but no biggie. You just drop the charging limit down under what the current charge is, and silence.