Hi All,

I'm new to the forum but not to HiFi. I post here to get some general advice as I dip my toes into the world of Decware.
First a little background.  I am a physician scientist in Ann Arbor, I take care of sick newborns and do genetic research.  Music is and has been for me a sanctuary from other challenges in life. I started hanging out in hifi shops and buying used gear in the 80s (high school).  I have evolved my taste in hifi setups over the years.  I currently enjoy my main rig in a common room in our house.  The front end is a Kuzma Stabi R table with two arms (Fidelity Research FR-64S with a Koetsu RSP and a Kuzma 4 point 9 with a SoundSmith Hyperion). Phonostage and pre are Pass Labs xp-27 and 22. For amplification and speakers I use Vandersteen M5-HPA and Vandersteen Quatros.  The only tubes in the system are in my Marantz 10b tuner. I post on audiogon occasionally and my system is described there. I love how this system displays the recordings as if I were in the 10th row of an auditorium. It is a relaxed full range sound that gets out of the way of the music.

OTOH, I have several buddies with tube based systems that I also enjoy. One is a complete Audio Tekne system and is amazing. Another is all vintage Marantz with Nola loudspeakers. Infact, the main reason I started lurking here is that I have the itch to build a second 2 channel system that is different than my main rig described above and tube based. A close friend has lent me his father's Marantz 8b amp which I have been using to drive a pair of 90db efficient solidly 8 ohm two ways, the Vandersteen 1C.  This second system is in my finished basement which is much more acoustically absorbed (concrete foundation, carpeting) than my very open very live main rig space. This lends itself to more intimate listening sessions. I love the way it sounds with the Marantz 8b (an EL34 based push-pull). I do occasionally hear a pentode harshness or presence when my listening levels approach the upper 80s db. I usually listen in the upper 70s.  I love the liquidity and palpable presence that seems to characterize the Marantz.

I am all sorted for digital streamer and turntable for the second system.  I figured my next step would be a tube amp.  I'd like one that would ultimately match well with a future pair of more efficient speakers like Zu Druid/Omega?/Wolf Von Langa SON but would still work with the entry level Vandersteens. This leads me to believe that a ZMA or TORII MK V might be the ticket?  

What do you all think?  Is there a super huge difference in Decware sound between the higher watt models and the lower watt SETs?

Thanks!

Welcome!

Let me say a couple of things about Decware in general. The first is there is a waiting list, if you aren't already aware of it. If you were to order a new amp today delivery would be on the order of 4 years from now. The second is, if you like the sound of classic Marantz tube gear the Decware "house sound" is different. Where as Marantz (I don't know Audio Tekne, but suspect it is pointed in a similar direction to Marantz) tends to sound "warm" and "lush" Decware is much more "fast" and "transparent." Decware amps have what I would call a beautiful tube liquidity, but not the classic tube warmth. I would say current Audio Research tube gear is in the general ballpark sound-wise.

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Now, if the above doesn't scare you away let me address your actual question. There are certainly differences between the Decware push-pull amps and the SETs, but they are not "super huge." Smaller than the difference between any Decware amp and a Marantz 8B, at least based on my memory of old Marantz amps. Both SET and PP have their fans, and there are many many posts on the forum comparing and contrasting them. I got into Decware because I needed a replacement for my Pass Labs SEM (single ended MOSFET) amps and gravitated to the UFO SETs. I have a pair of UFO25s configured as balanced mono blocs. But, you can't go wrong with any Decware amp IMO, the important technical consideration is that it matches your speakers, your room and your expectations for how loud you want to listen.

Hello Karl and welcome to the forum. The ZMA and Torii MkV offer you greater flexibility with regard to less efficient speakers, especially when paired with a preamp which provides additional gain. I have driven my Vandersteen 2CE's with my ZMA - CSP3 preamp combination to satisfying listening levels.

FWIW the Torii MKV may be your best option. Why, well you can use a wider variety of power tubes in this amplifier. For those speakers requiring more juice a set of KT88's might work best, while you might prefer some EL34 or KT77 tubes for more efficient speakers. In short the Torii provides a bit more flexibility.

I would suggest you consider getting 25th Anniversary modifications for whichever Decware amplifier you might purchase and again pair with a Decware preamp if at all possible. If you don't want to endure the LONG wait for a new amp you can purchase a used one (follow the forum classifieds) and have it sent to Steve for a check over & new set of tubes. This will provide you the benefit a lifetime warranty transfer. I expect to see several used Decware amps up for sale in 2024 as many fans have Sarah 300B amps on order.

Good luck and Happy Listening.

HK

Karl, Go with your gut. Both the Decware SET and PP/ultra linear have the Decware house sound. If power isn't a consideration, it comes down to for me which X factor do you prefer? They both have the magic that makes them special. The X factor is slightly different and due to the nature of it, it really needs to be experienced.

So, go with your gut.

The Torii has 5 tube location options. 4 of the locations have a plethora of options to try. VR tube slot is more limited.

The ZMA doesn't have a tube rectifier. So one less rolling option than the Torii.

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GL KT77 are my favorite power tubes in the Torii and ZMA. They are how you describe. Cymbals are a good example. They have bite with no sting, a surprising warmth comes through, can hear the cymbal rolling as it rings.

Get on the list and come to Decfest next October  :D

@Groovysauce and @cmdc,

Thanks for those comments. What I am hearing is that both the TORII and ZMA will pair with a 90 db speaker (the Vandy 1C has a nice flat impedance curve as well) and give me a nice perspective on the sound and ethos of Decware.

Nothing beats trying something in your home system.  So I will pursue this and report back when I can.  One of the long time members here has privately offered to sell their TORII MKIV.  Seems like the way to go.

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Yes! Jumping the wait list and skipping the annoying burnin is hitting the jackpot IMO.

Trigger has been pulled!  And a set of Cryotone tubes in addition to stock.

I’ll make sure to let you all know how it sounds in my system.  Thanks all for being so welcoming.