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Steve's current reference systems (Read 2726 times)
Steve Deckert
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Steve's current reference systems
11/24/23 at 01:18:03
 
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I've always wanted to know what is "Steve's" reference system. From cords, wires, conditioners, turntable, cartridge, DAC, etc... I know the amps/preamps and etc. probably change, but what is used when coming for a listening appointment. Anyone know?


That's fair.  First I will say that the Decware listening room and everything in it is my reference.  I put together countless combinations of speakers, cables, amps and sources on a constant basis to give myself as broad a reference as possible.  In the beginning that included other manufactures amplifiers and speakers - all of it I could get my hands on. It helped that I worked for an audio store where I got to experience at least 50 amps and as many speakers, dragging them back and forth to my own listening room at home.

But, there are certain things in the Decware listening room that are in fact references of importance.  This is primarily speakers.  In order for any speaker to become a reference, it has to sound the same every time you hear it.  That means it can never be moved, not even one inch. Oh, one inch wouldn't be the end of the world for a personal reference, but I make amplifiers that image.  So I presently have two pair of speakers that do not move.  One are my corner horns, which are literally glued into the corner.  I built the entire room for those speakers... and they do not suck.

The other pair of speakers is on the other end of the room, my house speakers as I like to call them. They are too heavy to move, so they just don't. Both of these speakers are sound stage and imaging champions. Literally the best. One is a crossoverless single driver design, the other is a 3 way using scan speaks most expensive drivers and a crossover that cost nearly as much.

When designing an amplifier with unlimited imaging depth made possible from the lack of negative feedback in the amplifier -- you are analyzing the sound stage and where every sound is in that stage, its size and etc. If your speakers were moved even 1 inch all of those things would change leading the amp designer to think something he did caused it, or to just a lack of confidence during the design.

So my locked reference speakers are the corner horns and the house speakers.

House Speakers more info: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1637209185/0#0





Corner Horns more info: https://www.decware.com/newsite/cornerhorn.htm



These corner horns I did in the early 1990's and they have been my main reference ever since. All the early zen amps were designed and demo'd using these speakers.  Because they are so complex to build with their compound radiused angles the price of these speakers is well into the 5 digit club so we never pushed them or even really tried to sell any, instead just offered the plans for the ambitious DIYer.  If you want a pair today, I can have them for you in about 16 weeks for around 22 grand.

Against this stable backdrop that never changes -- I can use all of the other Decware and non-Decware speakers in more casual setups which is in itself an important reference. God forbid what if it only sounded good on the fixed reference speakers?  Or only when the speaker is scientifically placed in the perfect spot?  You get the idea.


So this is where my reference starts. We don't make sources components for sale anymore, so I have many DACS at different price points but my reference is the Holo Audio May with all the mods.  It's is all you could ever want from a DAC.  I'll expand on that a bit in the next post.

Steve



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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #1 - 11/24/23 at 01:40:00
 

On a side note:  

One thing that really messes with you when a system is dialed in and imaging like crazy is having so many speakers in the room.  Just minutes ago I was standing there in front of my rotating alter and a part of the song put a sound in 3D space right on the face of an unused speaker on the right channel.  One that was actually several feet behind the active speaker.  The illusion was so powerful, and I understand it so completely that despite this I could not resist the temptation to crawl down on my hands and knees up to the speaker in question just to amuse myself that it wasn't really on and then actually feel surprised that it wasn't on.

Just sayin.


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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #2 - 11/24/23 at 02:07:49
 

So getting into a more technical description of my reference source I want to talk about the Holo Audio May Dac for a minute.  I owned and used it for at least a year before I actually heard it.

I have a Roon Nucleus music server that is also a streamer.  It proved to be completely useless, I couldn't handle the sound.  The reason was because it uses a wall wort for a power supply.  I ended up using my Cambridge CXNv2 as a streamer instead which sounded infinitely better.

I went through the digital cable thing, spending stupid amounts of money to see where things stood, and found out the "straight wire" brand digital cable that costs around $400 or so was the winner against everything I tried which included stuff like "high fidelity" brand magnetically enhanced stuff that was almost as stiff as a car radio antenna.

In the end I put a real linear power supply on the Roon Nucleus and it slayed the Cambridge.  So my current digital reference is the Roon Nucleus upgraded with a linear power supply, an Audioquest Diamond USB cable to connect the Nucleus to the Holo Audio Dac.  From the Dac I run Decware DSR3, both XLR and RCA depending on the need at the time.

I feed both the linear power supply and the Holo Audio May with our Decware power cords coming from a Decware Zen Line Conditioner (ZLC).  The power quality out in this shop is less than optimal so a ZLC is very important for consistency.

I have this set up on the same end of the room as my rotating alter and the ZP3 phono stage so it makes it easy to play the DAC against the Vinyl Rig and use a variety of speakers, including the corner horns to make those comparisons.



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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #3 - 11/24/23 at 02:53:11
 

I think this thread started with my personal pleasure rig, which is vinyl and the HR2 speakers most of the time. The Amplifier is my Sarah 300B prototype. I use the more laid back ZWIRE cables for whatever speakers I am using with my vinyl rig. Right now my passion for the vinyl rig is at an all time high.  

Just before Decfest I decided I needed a turntable that could accommodate two tonearms at the same time so I used some of my Dads walnut reserved for special projects to build one. Then I got another tonearm and cartridge and let the fun begin! The first thing that struck me after I made it and had a first listen was that it sounded better. The plinth and the stand were both drastically changed over the original model I have used for the past 20 some years. I didn't see that coming because the original TERES plinth was 3 inches thick rosewood filled with lead shot. So this was an eye opener at how much just changing the wood and the coupling changes the sound. I mean it's not hard when you own a 3 inch thick 57 lb platter on a 60 lb lead filled plinth to feel like it really can't get any better... but it did.  

Up until now I have used a variety of affordable protractors to set up the cartridges. I reluctantly forced myself to purchase a "Smartractor" which is suppose to be the reference.  My butthole is still a little puckered from the purchase, but it's starting to feel better after a few weeks of listening.




This is my tonearm that I've used since 2000. It is a Fidelity Research FR64fx silver wired arm from the 1970's. I was NOS when I purchased it and I still have the box. It is perhaps the only thing I own that I kept the box for. The silver wired arm sounded better than the copper wired arm as expected.  

I started out with an MC202 Fidelity Research moving coil cartridge that I still have, but then got an anniversary edition, early serial number FR7 cartridge with pure silver air core coils. That is what is in the picture above.

There are 5 tangential curves used to set up cartridges and tonearms. The FR7 cartridge is built into the head shell so there is no way to mount the cartridge incorrectly. The azimuth, the overhang etc., are all fixed, you can adjust it it can't be set wrong. Since this is where most things are found to be set wrong in the real world of audiophile vinyl rigs, it appeals to me to have it impossible to screw up. Anyway, interestingly enough of the 5 curves the first curve (UNI DIN) is the one they chose for this tonearm cartridge setup. This is said to be the best curve for vocals and classical music. On my DECCA cartridge I used the (Loefgren A / Baerwalk DIN) curve. That is claimed to be best for older records through the 1980's which mostly what I listen to UNI DIN is also claimed to have the same preference so both of my cartridge setups are dialed into 1950's to early 1980's pressings.







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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #4 - 11/24/23 at 03:21:29
 

As good as it was, the DECCA beat it, so I found a perfect FR7f in Japan and had it checked over and sent to me. This is that cartridge.

.

This was suppose to be in a whole new league compared to the FR7, and after listening to it for 30 minutes I made it part of the Decware family.


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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #5 - 11/24/23 at 03:50:16
 



This is what I'm listening to at the present moment. The rear arm is the Audio Craft AC-3000 with the MC-F silver arm tube. DECCA MK5 EE VL cartridge with 2.5 grams added the head shell. 1.5 grams for the arm lifter and 1 gram additional.  Both combinations are now pretty much equal but different. The FR is more silky and has the slight edge on dimensionality whereas the DECCA is far faster and often sounds more real.  

The tape machine in the background... on the one hand a useless reference because noone has tape machines. But on the other side, it gives an ultimate reference for what is possible and gives you a grounded perspective on both the DAC and the Vinyl Rig as a reference. I can say that the tape machine with a master tape is usually more dynamic and denser than even a good LP.  Sadly because an album requires 2 reels of tape at 15IPS, the preferred speed, at $90 a reel for blank tape we will probably never see tape hit the mass consumer market like LP has. More than likely it will just remain un-obtanium for anyone with a budget.





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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #6 - 11/24/23 at 03:51:02
 

I'll continue tomorrow : )
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #7 - 11/24/23 at 11:51:29
 
This is a timely thread. Very interesting Steve. My vinyl loop is starting to show signs of needing some attention lately. Had to increase the head shell weight by a guarter of a gram to remove a bit of sibilance that had developed. One more 1/4 will tally it up to 2 signaling a time for change. Also been on a hiatus of sorts lately listening to nature's music without any system music being played over the last month. A cleansing Smiley
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Cambridge CXN2>ZDAC>ZBOX>braided silver/occ> Zrock2>CSP2+>SE84 milflex copper 25th>9AWG silver/copper braid>lii Crystal 10 in Huijgen cabinets. Ortofon 2M Black>JVC QL-F4/Otari MX5050B2>ZP3. Isolation. AC filtering. Room treatment.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Audio Gods are at it again!
Reply #8 - 11/24/23 at 23:42:38
 

Tonearm cables are something I spent some time playing with. You have to try more than one. If you don't you're not going to achieve this level of reference unless you get lucky.  The tonearm cable is by far the most critical interconnect in your entire system and by a factor of at least 2 maybe more...   A cartridge is around 100 times less voltage than a DAC.  That makes the way the cable affects the sound drastically increase.  For example, you may have to interconnects, brand A and B.  Behind your DAC you concluded it was a tie.  You can't decide which one is better.  On a tonearm those same two cables could have as much of a change to the sound as comparing two different cartridges.

After 20 years of running the wrong tonearm cables on my FR64fx tonearm, I decided to see what the manufacture, Fidelity Research, had designed for it.  I would hate to have missed something, and after 3 of my own DIY cables, and as many after market offerings some costing too much money I found that my $75 orange Japanese Canare cable from eBay was the winner so this will be an attempt to beat that.  The FR cable arrived and sounded noticeably better, so that is the tonearm cable I presently use.

On my Audio Craft tonearm I am really just starting the process.  I ran the $75 cable on it and it sounded great, but based on my other experience I ordered the factory tonearm cable that went with the arm.  When it arrived, I listened to it for 30 seconds and then re-installed the $75 cable.  

The FR7 and FR7f are both moving coil and require a step up transformer so again after quite a bit of playing around it was a tossup between my own ZMC-1 and the Fidelity Research FX-1 so I went with the FX-1 just to keep the entire package original FR all the way through. That in itself becomes a pretty solid reference.

From the FX-1 to the phono stage (ZP3) I use the cable that is captive in the FX-1 itself because there is no other choice.  This is however a great arrangement because it allows this cable to be properly grounded with an actual shield that is bonded at the source end of the cable and it matches the tonearm cable which is silver.




The ZP3 is stock without any anniversary mods or copper foil caps.  This is because I like the vintage sound of the stock caps that are in the ZP3 by default.  The input tubes I play with from time to time using various NOS 12AX7's.  The 12AU7 which is the output tube of the ZP3 is Cryotone.  The voltage regulator on the ZP3 is an NOS OA3 and the rectifier is a current production Decware 5U4G.

The output of the ZP3 feeds the Sarah 300B prototype through a pair of prototype cables that I considered offering but don't like the stiffness so I scrapped the idea.  They do sound better that my current offering and would have cost around $500 for a 1m pair, so this was an opportunity to get some use out of them.

On the Audio Craft setup, the DECCA cartridge is not a moving coil, so it can plug directly into the phono stage which is how I used it for the first few weeks.  My only complaint was that the gain from this setup was lower than the FR setup and I wanted them to be the same so when I swap from one to the other, I don't have to adjust the volume on the amplifier.  

To fix this, I made a custom Decware ZMC using a Sowter transformer designed specifically for moving magnet/ moving iron cartridges that gives it about 6 dB of additional gain.  I have to say I am super impressed with the result.  The DECCA is super fast and razor sharp focus and I feared the transformer and additional cable would be detectable by softening things.  That didn't happen, and there is more body to the sound.

The FX-1 step up transformer has around 6dB more gain than our Decware ZMC-1 so you can see why it was louder than the DECCA.  Now they exactly match.  From the custom ZMC I use another pair of the prototype interconnects and when I want to switch from one tonearm to another I unplug the interconnects and swap them at the back of the ZP3.  I do this because I just don't want to build a switch, or use our ZSB with an additional interconnect.  As far as the ZP3 is concerned, all of the cables I've mentioned so far would be considered by it to be tonearm cables and that means less is definitely more.

Lastly my turntable motor was designed to be run off of a 12V battery, and was charged by a small wall wort that ultimately became the only power source when the battery failed.  I didn't see how a sewing thread acting as belt to turn a 57 lbs platter could adjust the speed fast enough to be heard so I never worried about this until one day by accident I did something that showed me the motor and thread can in fact cog the platter in a detectable way.  I was really shocked actually.  So now it has a top notch linear power supply running it instead of the wall wort.

The item with the red lights is the ZLC prototype when I considered using lighted switches.  The two boxes on top of that are the linear power supplies, one for the streamer and the other for the turntable motor.  









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Steve Deckert
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Re: Steve's current reference systems
Reply #9 - 12/02/23 at 03:02:56
 
Today during a listening appointment I had the opportunity to put the conductor of the Peoria Symphony Orchestra in the listening chair of this exact reference system. Not the chair you all see in the videos and pictures but rather my drafting chair that elevates me about 16 inches higher than the normal listening chair. That is what I use in order to get the somewhat top down perspective that I like with many speakers and especially the HRv2 which is what was hooked up. It facilitates depth and reduces the flattening boundary effect from the floor.

This gentleman has some high credentials... His name is George Stelluto. His recent conducting appearances include the Ravinia Festival, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, San Diego Symphony Orchestra, Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra, Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia, Chicago Philharmonic, Orquestra Jovem do Estado Sao Paulo, the New York Opera Cooperative, Pasadena Symphony Orchestra, and the Nordwestduetsche Philharmonie. His complete works are too long to list here but I encourage you to read his bio.  He has a wonderful website with videos and free live recordings.  http://georgestelluto.com/bio/

What an opportunity... so I found a record in my library that I knew he would be familiar with, a Telarc LP of the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra and put him in my high chair and he listened and said everything was exactly in the right place just as if he were conducting.  He commented on the balance and transparency and said the ambience was coming from the space around us. We agreed that the ambience is defined by the space and that ambience is in and of itself a delicate instrument and the most trampled on by poor playback systems.





I don't know what better confirmation you can get than this... His approval was a reassuring and pleasant surprise. Just for fun before he left I played the Tiny Radials and Imperial SO horns on some pipe organ music with some unintentionally ball ripping deep bass that I apologized for but he said he liked it.

Steve

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Brian
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Re: Steve's current reference systems
Reply #10 - 12/02/23 at 04:43:36
 
Hello, Steve
I am so glad you had this opportunity. What a wonderful Christmas present for you!

Brian
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Re: Steve's current reference systems
Reply #11 - 12/05/23 at 03:21:45
 
Steve this is awesome!  Thank you for responding! Love it
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SE84UFO2.1 25th lvl2
ZRock2 25th lvl2
ZP3 25th lvl2 (ordered)
CPS3 25th lvl3 (ordered)
Turntable (Looking at Rega P6/P8 w/Hana ML)
Speakers - DM947
Cables - DSR3S’s
DAC/Streamer - Wiim Pro Plus
Conditioner - Audioquest Niagara 1200
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