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Balanced Power Conditioner (Read 4702 times)
Bottlehead
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Balanced Power Conditioner
11/15/23 at 04:57:41
 
In the Swiss Digital FuseBox thread, Lon said that any effort to achieve cleaner power is worth it, and I couldn’t agree more. I have experimented with Furutech wall outlets, upgraded pwoer cords of all brands, and various power conditioners. So I’m wondering if anyone has tried a balanced power conditioner. I have been pleased with the effect that using higher output voltage balanced outputs on different cd players and dacs have had on my systems, so this might be a next logical step. Anybody have any experience with this?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2RQ--equitech-model-2rq-balanced-power-s...
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Rap
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #1 - 11/15/23 at 14:02:12
 
Eye-watering price for what it does.. Some people already have balanced power, I know I do right from the supply. 115 and 115 out of phase
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CAJames
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #2 - 11/15/23 at 14:23:17
 
Quote:
Posted by: Bottlehead      Posted on: Yesterday at 20:57:41

...I have been pleased with the effect that using higher output voltage balanced outputs on different cd players and dacs have had on my systems, so this might be a next logical step...


I don't have any opinion on whether or not this is a good way to spend 6K$ so feel free to skip the rest of the post if that is what you're looking for.

But at the risk of being pedantic let me say a little bit about "balanced." Balanced isn't really about higher output voltage, it is about noise rejection. Voltage is always relative to some other voltage, so "regular" i.e. single ended signal is propagated relative to ground. Balanced i.e. differential signal is propagated relative to a mirror image of itself. When it gets to its destination the two signals are differenced and since 1 - (-1) = 2 you get twice the output voltage, and to the point, all the noise that is common to both signals is eliminated. So what this system is selling is the idea you are using a balanced signal to cancel out the noise in your power. For a small fraction of the cost I have a balanced isolation transformer that works on the same principle.
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Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Mapletree Phono 3E
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Rap
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #3 - 11/15/23 at 15:13:33
 
It´s basically a transformer in a box.
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #4 - 11/15/23 at 16:00:58
 
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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #5 - 11/16/23 at 03:57:14
 
Thanks for the information, guys. It’s what keeps me coming back to this forum. After reading your comments, I’m rethinking the value proposition of the EquiTech product.

Rap, are you saying that your power is balanced at the panel, so that your whole house is getting balanced power to all your appliances? If so, that sounds like a new construction installation. (I bet it also sounds like heaven).

CAJ, thanks for the explanation. I knew a little bit of what you wrote, but not all. I have a couple of isolation transformers, but they must not be balanced, as they have a helluva hum. I use them as glorified extensions cords in the garage where noise doesn’t matter. Can you share what brand balanced transformer you use? Is it quiet?

Crazy Bill, what an interesting company! Thanks for sharing. i wonder if anyone has tried the Goertz speaker cables.

Randy
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CAJames
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #6 - 11/16/23 at 14:09:53
 
Quote:
Posted by: Bottlehead      Posted on: Yesterday at 19:57:14

...I have a couple of isolation transformers, but they must not be balanced, as they have a helluva hum. I use them as glorified extensions cords in the garage where noise doesn’t matter. Can you share what brand balanced transformer you use? Is it quiet?


I got mine from ebay (i.e. China) a few years ago. I know a couple other folks who got something similar from toroid.com and are happy.

Mine is indeed dead quiet. I'm not sure if you think the noise that a balanced transformer removes is mechanical hum, but that is not what it does (in theory). It removes noise from the AC power, transformer hum is a different issue. I'm not an expert but I know a lot of transformer hum is caused by DC on the AC. Also the specs and details of the transformer construction itself can make it more susceptible to hum under load.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Mapletree Phono 3E
STR-1002 -> Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Audeze LCD-XC
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Rap
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #7 - 11/16/23 at 22:35:24
 
Bottlehead,

We have 3 phase into the house and it´s broken down from the panel into 2 phase where 2 wires are live and one is the neutral out of the three. The fuse box carries double breakers one for each line of live wire and they measure 115v each for a total of 230v which is code here in Iceland. I´m not an electrician so not sure how they convert 3 to 2 maybe they use some form of Scott-t transformers.

Electricity is generally good here but think that might be more because we dont use those pole-transformers outside the houses. I use a powerstrip with ferrite beads in it for the hifi but not sure I need it though it should filter out high-frequency noise from the line if any.

Hope you find a good solution that doesn´t cost an arm and a leg...

p.s As to "a new construction installation" I gather it´s actually an obsolete style of power distribution, it´s in a lot of the older houses here in Reykjavik...



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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #8 - 11/17/23 at 22:58:24
 
Rap, thanks for the clarification. If I find an eflectrician who won’t look at me like I have three heads, I’ll run a whole-house balanced system by him. Also, I love your quote about what makes a society great.

CAJ, thanks for the further explanation and for the toroid.com website. Looks like I can save a lot of money, and get more capability. I’m looking at the 8-outlet, 1500VA model. I need to contact them about the option to have an IEC inlet/not hardwired. I’ll let you know what I find.
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will
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #9 - 11/18/23 at 00:46:03
 
This may be what CAJames is talking about... not the thing I typically used to think of as an isolation transformer... like those triplite types that hum.

I got mine from a Chinese seller off aliexpress, so can't comment on this seller, but this looks like the one I have. It sounded fine when I got it. Then I upgraded the fuse, and by sound, the caps across the AC receptacles (with bypass caps), and maybe something else in there... can't recall... but it sounds quite good to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274425627254?hash=item3fe50ac276:g:SgcAAOSw44FfCtbV&amd...
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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #10 - 11/18/23 at 05:42:30
 
Thanks, Will. That’s a nice looking unit. Simple, clean and compact. One of the things that draws me to the toroid.com products is that they are made in the US. That’s not always an option in all cases, but I try to buy US made to the extent that I can. It's one of the things that drew me to Decware in the first place - and I’m so glad that I found this site back in 2010. Not only have I gotten some world-class audio equipment, but also a major upgrade in my audio education. So in the spirit of the season, thanks to Steve, and to all you DecHeads.

Randy
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will
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #11 - 11/18/23 at 13:59:54
 
Yes it is a nice unit, clearly made for audio, with a pretty heavy aluminum case, OFC custom wound transformer, gold plated copper IEC, mine either had pure copper receptacles or gold plated copper, low key cap filtering, etc... this one anyway, just seems nicely designed and made.

I am glad you got on a good trail with toroid.com. I look forward to hearing about what you come up with finally, and listening impressions! Power is a real trick to me, inside components and feeding them, every choice seems audible. Makes me wonder what a signal path really is functionally in resolving system/rooms. Well we know what we call a signal path, but to me, it seems the power feeding that path is just as important in the big picture.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #12 - 11/19/23 at 02:37:11
 
I agree completely about clean power, Will. I recently switched to a Puritan Audio 156 conditioner from a Furman. Noticeable improvement, and it’s been getting better as I add their Ultimate power cables. (I have to add them in stages, as they are spendy). So I’m anxious to compare what I have now with a balanced transformer. I may also try my system with the Puritan plugged into the transformer. I’m from the “You never know until you try” school of thought. Might be overkill, but we’ll see.  

Randy
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will
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #13 - 11/19/23 at 06:11:20
 
Sounds intersting. Seems a lot of folks really like Puritan. I would love to hear them.

Right now I am running in four stages, 1st a Mapleshade receptacle, then, all modified with better parts by sound... The Chinese made balanced transformer, followed by a Pi Uber, followed by an Audio Brickwall.

There is a Furutech filter plugged into the Uber, and a Shunyata filter plugged into the Brickwall.

All nice sounding cables, two DIY, and one Chinese made UPOCC copper with UPOCC gold plated copper ends. In the beginning, the power cable coming off the Mapleshade receptacle and going to the balanced transformer... and at the end, the cable out of the Uber and going into the Brickwall, both have QSA Power Jitter Power Conditioners – Yellow on the AC ends, the QSA things looking like over-sized ground lifter adapters, but they are power refining units.

Fun to play with power! I'd love to hear about your balanced transformer tests with and without your Puritan setup!

Will
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/ZR2/CSP3>LaoChen 300B/845>Omega SAHOMs/AudioSmile Tweeters,SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs and DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker>SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet +
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Rap
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #14 - 11/20/23 at 02:54:03
 
one way that´s cheap is if you have an old solid-state power-amp lying around is to make a cd recording of (in your case 60hz) say in audacity or some other free ware now move one channel by 180 degrees and connect the cd player to the amp, now wire an old extension cord to the amps speaker output... and hey presto you have balanced power to drive your amp. I did this for fun few years ago while living in Belgium just to drive my TT from a cd. Didn´t hear much difference but it is technically balanced power and cheap... Bet using cheap digital op amps would make an interesting project and maybe some signal generator circuit ..


ps the amp was an old Tandberg 200w class A

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Rap
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #15 - 11/20/23 at 03:06:20
 
this is not dissimilar to how some high-end Turntable speed selectors are in that they put in a pot to control frequency of the electricity and run it through what is by all purpose just an amplifier.
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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #16 - 11/20/23 at 18:10:40
 
Hey All,

This morning I ordered a balanced transformer from Toroid. Well, at least I got the ball rolling, anyway. They don’t have a way to order a non-hardwired unit from their website, so they have to check with the engineering dept, and then get back to me with a quote. But I’m quite sure that it will be a lot less than some others that I’ve looked at. The folks at Toroid were helpful, and easy to deal with, so I feel good about doing business with them. Thanks again for the recommendation, CAJ.

Randy
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kulafu
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #17 - 11/20/23 at 20:39:44
 
I just received my Core Power Technologies Equicore 1800 MKii from Mark Shifter (formerly owned) and I am now a firm believer.  Needless to say, he has been very helpful and gave me a great deal on this balanced power conditioner and the floor noise is so noticeable that I am hearing instruments in more detail right off the bat.  Well worth it.  Next are the digital fuse boxes that should be coming soon.
Bob
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Bottlehead
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #18 - 11/23/23 at 02:38:07
 
Hey Bob,

I talked to Mark - I have bought a few things from him over the years - but he didn’t have another model like you got from him. I found a MKIII on US Audio Mart for a good price with shipping included, so I went for it. If the Toroid folks come up with a good price for their unit, looks like I might have balanced power in both my main, and my bedroom systems. Onward and upward.

Randy

P.S. Mark had good things to say about you. Thought you might like to know.
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kulafu
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Re: Balanced Power Conditioner
Reply #19 - 11/24/23 at 12:40:09
 
Randy,
Thank you for the reply.  Mark has been great to work with and he provided sound and honest advice.  Very responsive and would not hesitate to call you back in a jiffy.  Glad I got the power conditioner from him.  To date it has been the most dramatic improvement in my system for such a very modest price compared to other balanced power conditioners on the market.  I hope you enjoy your power conditioner as I have and yes they are very heavy!
Bob
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Altec 604 8K, Liionidas Silver 10/W-15,UFO25th/Cary SET Monos/,CSP3 25th/Holo May KTE or STL DSD512 ,HQP/USB/Pulse/LHY SW10, Roon/Thorens 1600(Decware ICs, speaker wires/Equi=Core 1800, SFDBs and STR-1002
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